chins/pull ups ???

[pullinbig]

you got three weeks. i wish you the best and look forward to hearing how you do.

i miss competing more than you guys will ever know. but with my wifes health it is out of the picture for now. competing gives you a goal and a purpose in the gym. and meet day is a tremendous andrenaline rush. nothing like it in the world. and when its all over and done with there is no better satifaction than knowing you left it all on the platform.

 

[blackbeard]

i think gym and frosty should post their totals..that will decide whos stronger lol not chins or pullups..

 

[syko]

Im not posting my totals to show who is stronger and who is not. I could care less.

What my entire point is this, and it seems that nobody in here understands what my point is. Which Frosty is saying that chinups determine who is strong or weak. My debate is that one excersize does not determine this.

Now i know why i stopped following this forum. Ill stick to listening to PB only

 

[Frosty]

Im not posting my totals to show who is stronger and who is not. I could care less.

What my entire point is this, and it seems that nobody in here understands what my point is. Which Frosty is saying that chinups determine who is strong or weak. My debate is that one excersize does not determine this.

Now i know why i stopped following this forum. Ill stick to listening to PB only

And I'm saying people who are strong and balanced will be able to do good on chinups. Just like if a guy is benching 600, I seriously doubt he's going to be inclining or overhead pressing only 250.

 

[blackbeard]

Im not posting my totals to show who is stronger and who is not. I could care less.

What my entire point is this, and it seems that nobody in here understands what my point is. Which Frosty is saying that chinups determine who is strong or weak. My debate is that one excersize does not determine this.

Now i know why i stopped following this forum. Ill stick to listening to PB only

i do agree with you.i was trying to add levity to the situation..guess it didnt work..i dont see how only chins can determine weather someone is stron or not..ill be brutally honest i jut started doing chins 2 weeks ago and you know what i can only do 3 sets of 6 at a bw of 235-240..am i weak i guess so i pull a little over 500..gym i know for me personally i dont get good at something unless i do that specific thing..some people are different maybe like frosty...but im gonna work on these damn chins..another observation i really dont recall to many big men bodybuilders or powerlifters who still do chins..are you going to call them weak too?

 

[Morb]

lol frosty, wheres your characteristic equanimity? i admire coolheadedness but im glad to see the hellfire burns within, reminds me of when kirk split into evil and good counterparts in that transporter malfunction...

 

[Toranaga]

And I'm saying people who are strong and balanced will be able to do good on chinups. Just like if a guy is benching 600, I seriously doubt he's going to be inclining or overhead pressing only 250.

That can happen. A guy benching 600 can EASILY have trouble cleaning and overhead pressing 300 or so lbs. This is an olympic lift which is highly technical. You got to be doing this stuff week in and out. I can bet you that world-class powerlifters CANNOT compete in the Olympic lifts with the Olympic weightlifters - according to your rationale, that would be because PLs are weak. And that argument is clearly bull.

QED.

 

[Toranaga]

I do and you're spot on bro.

P.S: I'm 245 and can do 15 reps EASY. Don't mean that I'm stronger than a guy doing 800lb squats.

What my entire point is this, and it seems that nobody in here understands what my point is. Which Frosty is saying that chinups determine who is strong or weak. My debate is that one excersize does not determine this.

 

[Toranaga]

Are you kidding me ? I've read some of your other posts and thought that you were a little more astute. Then again, maybe you got a hardon for this guy ?

Anyways: The entire premise of your argument is based on a sample of one (pullinbig) ! In grad school, If I based my conclusions/arguments/thesis results on a sample of one, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed, and rightly so.

Pullinbig doesn't do chinups and he cranked out 10 at 310 lbs.

If you're 310 lbs of solid muscle and can't do chinups - face it, you're weak. .

 

[Frosty]

That can happen. A guy benching 600 can EASILY have trouble cleaning and overhead pressing 300 or so lbs. This is an olympic lift which is highly technical. You got to be doing this stuff week in and out. I can bet you that world-class powerlifters CANNOT compete in the Olympic lifts with the Olympic weightlifters - according to your rationale, that would be because PLs are weak. And that argument is clearly bull.

QED.

Oh, c'mon...chinups are not a technical lift by any means. They're very much a brute strength lift.

 

[Frosty]

Are you kidding me ? I've read some of your other posts and thought that you were a little more astute. Then again, maybe you got a hardon for this guy ?

Anyways: The entire premise of your argument is based on a sample of one (pullinbig) ! In grad school, If I based my conclusions/arguments/thesis results on a sample of one, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed, and rightly so.

You're correct on that. However, if a person is even reasonably balanced and is in fact strong, then 250 lbs should be repped out easily. If the person squats 800, benches 600, and DLs 700, but can't do chinups with 250-300 lbs, then something is seriously wrong.

I really would be interested to see if pullinbig could get his strong gym buddies together and test this. See if any of the really strong guys would have trouble with 250-300 total pounds in chinups (supine grip). I highly doubt it...and if I am wrong then I will admit it.

 

[Toranaga]

Oh, c'mon...chinups are not a technical lift by any means. They're very much a brute strength lift.

Read my post again.

 

[Frosty]

Read my post again.

I don't understand what you want me to reread. It clearly says that a guy benching 600 could have trouble clean and pressing 300 lbs or so, and that just because guys can't do olympic lifts doesn't mean they're weak.

"That can happen. A guy benching 600 can EASILY have trouble cleaning and overhead pressing 300 or so lbs. This is an olympic lift which is highly technical. You got to be doing this stuff week in and out. I can bet you that world-class powerlifters CANNOT compete in the Olympic lifts with the Olympic weightlifters - according to your rationale, that would be because PLs are weak. And that argument is clearly bull."

A chinup is nothing like ANY of the olympic lifts. Chinups are probably one of the simplest lifts out there. Even simpler than squats, deadlifts, or bench pressing. It is very much a brute strength lift that has just about no technical aspect to it.

The argument that a guy benching a lot can't do olympic lifts doesn't even apply to chinups.

A guy benching 600...is he gonna have trouble doing a seated overhead press of 250 lbs? I certainly would hope not. Not to mention the back uses very large muscles for pulling...the shoulders aren't exactly massive muscles.

 

[Toranaga]

If one can't do chinups, nothing has to be necessarily "wrong", it can be a host of different reasons (from (genetic) musculature, to strained shoulders, etc).

There's no need for anyone to do any experimentation here. Its pretty simple really. You are wrong bud. And you need to admit that.

I'm done here. Have fun.

You're correct on that. However, if a person is even reasonably balanced and is in fact strong, then 250 lbs should be repped out easily. If the person squats 800, benches 600, and DLs 700, but can't do chinups with 250-300 lbs, then something is seriously wrong.

I really would be interested to see if pullinbig could get his strong gym buddies together and test this. See if any of the really strong guys would have trouble with 250-300 total pounds in chinups (supine grip). I highly doubt it...and if I am wrong then I will admit it.

 

[Frosty]

If one can't do chinups, nothing has to be necessarily "wrong", it can be a host of different reasons (from (genetic) musculature, to strained shoulders, etc).

There's no need for anyone to do any experimentation here. Its pretty simple really. You are wrong bud. And you need to admit that.

I'm done here. Have fun.

Admit I'm wrong? Based on what? Your little example that made no sense given what I said? "powerlifters might not be able to do olympic lifts, so that means you're not weak if you can't do chinups with only 250 lbs." Non sequitur.

I already said shoulder injuries are a valid reason not to be able to do them.

 

[pullinbig]

i can t believe you guys still at it. this is great stuff.

BTW i did wide grip pull ups. palms facing away from me. i'll see how many chins i can do next back workout.

i beleive most advanced PLers will be able to rep out thier body weight on wide grip PUs no prob. the heavy back work we do adds up over the years. most people who meet me in the gym usually comment on my back thickness and width. ed coan has got one of the freakiest backs youll ever see. its huge. steve goggins back is frakin massive. if you see him pull deads you know why. 881 in the 242s and all back, hardly uses his quads. brad gullingham has a huge back as well. hell look at ronnie colemans back. he pulls heavy deads. no telling how many pull ups he can do. a lot of the same muscles envolved in deads and heavy rows come into play on exercises like pull ups and varius pull downs.

i have enjoyed this thread as much as any one i have read in a while.

 

[HardBody]

When I first started chin ups I could barely do 2 or 3 also. Not sure if they have a machine at your gym that can assist you. But I did those until they got really easy then started doing them on thier own, now I can do like 15 in one set easily. Your 205 so they could make it a little difficult, the heavier you are the harder they are.

the heavier you are the more they work

 

[adidamps2]

hey guys the arguments great just one small problem....no one botherd to answer my last posted question...which was when doin chins wont the bi's be involved greatly in the movement and what exercise can i substitute or do to help greatly improve my chins/pull ups???

 

[pullinbig]

hey guys the arguments great just one small problem....no one botherd to answer my last posted question...which was when doin chins wont the bi's be involved greatly in the movement and what exercise can i substitute or do to help greatly improve my chins/pull ups???

yes bis are used a lot in chins. but thats a good thing. compound movement. thats one less set of bis you gotta do. a lot of guys use chins as their bi movement. any back work that requires the arms to bend incoporates bis.

chins help chins. squats help squats. curls help curls.

if you struggling with chins then do chins. get a spot for some forced reps or use one of those machines that aids with your BW.

 

[HardBody]

yes bis are used a lot in chins. but thats a good thing. compound movement. thats one less set of bis you gotta do. a lot of guys use chins as their bi movement. any back work that requires the arms to bend incoporates bis.

chins help chins. squats help squats. curls help curls.

if you struggling with chins then do chins. get a spot for some forced reps or use one of those machines that aids with your BW.

Have someone hold your knees and give u a lil boost to get you through, forced reps, soon you'll have weight ahnging from u, maybe even a midget