Current trt protocol not elevating t levels

[willnorthwest]

hey guys, my current protocol seems to not be raising my t levels high enough. im doing 60mg e3d which equates to about 140mg per week. no hcG at the moment. after 48hours my t levels tested at 361. i was pretty shocked to see this low of a score. the obvious answer to this would be to raise the dosage to about 75 or 80mg e3d and see how that works, however, the problem im running into is that my hematocrit was flagged high at 50. So, basically even though my t levels are not rising much, my hematocrit has definitely risen as a result of trt. what gives? i am planning on doing a therapeutic blood draw in the next few days, which should take care of the high hema, however i am worried that if i do, in fact, raise my t dose, that my hematocrit will eventually shoot through the roof. thoughts?

i will add that i have been a bit under the weather the past few weeks and i havent been hitting the gym like i usually do, so could that be an explanation for the low t score? i want to try and get my t levels to around 700-800 or so.

estradiol tested at less than 20. i have not been taking any adex either.

 

[willnorthwest]

Bump for help

 

[Megatron28]

How long have you been doing this protocol for? What was the previous protocol?

Miss any injections lately? Switch from IM to Subq recently? What TT did your previous protocol put you at?

Are you donating blood regularly? That is typically sufficient to manage hematocrit even at higher test dosages.

Is your testosterone from a pharmacy via prescription? Change vials recently?

 

[willnorthwest]

Mega.......i have been doing this protocol for about 3 months now. I have not switched manufacturers, however, i did run out of my most recent vial before being able to refill the prescription. For about 3 weeks, i had to revert back to an older vial that i had kept that had a bunch of crystals at the bottom. I kept having to heat it up just to get the crystals to go away.

 

[Jimstigator]

Everyone is different, but this is almost too different. Using that same protocol, I hit near 1000TT injecting subq. Crystals, while I have heard of them, cant be a great sign. I guess if thawed it's back to normal potency... Maybe... All reads like bro science to me at that point. I have some old vials sitting around and none crystallize. Is this pharmacy stuff or compounded?

Regardless... Just doesn't seem right. And if it isn't, and you adjust dose anyway, you might overshoot goal TT/E by a bit.

HCT of 50 isn't bad. I have been advised to hold donation until 53-54 as you cause other small issues by donating to often, such as depleted iron/ferritin stores.

If I was you, I would hold dose but look into the vial of potentially bunk test or start on the new vial.

-Jim

 

[Megatron28]

Mega.......i have been doing this protocol for about 3 months now. I have not switched manufacturers, however, i did run out of my most recent vial before being able to refill the prescription. For about 3 weeks, i had to revert back to an older vial that i had kept that had a bunch of crystals at the bottom. I kept having to heat it up just to get the crystals to go away.

I think you may have your answer.

 

[IMT staff]

this is why I am not a fan of 2x and 3x a week injects. Some swing is good.

 

[Jimstigator]

this is why I am not a fan of 2x and 3x a week injects. Some swing is good.

Not a knock... just curious... what do you mean by this, with regards to the OPs issue? He is complaining of low TT numbers despite decent dose... not that he isn't feeling benefits with a high TT level.

I understand you guys recommend E5D whereas other practitioners may recommend E3D or E3.5D... but I suppose I don't see the relevance here. What am I missing?

-Jim

 

[IMT staff]

Not a knock... just curious... what do you mean by this, with regards to the OPs issue? He is complaining of low TT numbers despite decent dose... not that he isn't feeling benefits with a high TT level.

I understand you guys recommend E5D whereas other practitioners may recommend E3D or E3.5D... but I suppose I don't see the relevance here. What am I missing?

-Jim

We have twice the problems symptomatically with men on 2x a week dosages than we do with men on once a week dosages.

No speculation there, just the facts.

I don't know many practitioners recommending 2x a week dosages either, the 2x a week thing mostly comes from here.

 

[Jimstigator]

We have twice the problems symptomatically with men on 2x a week dosages than we do with men on once a week dosages.

No speculation there, just the facts.

Right - but he is not talking about something subjective, like how he feels. He is giving concrete numbers showing TT levels aren't being achieved with an adequate dose of test cyp. His dose/schedule, in almost every man on the planet, would achieve higher TT levels than he is seeing.

Again - I am just gathering info here, as I am always curious what you guys (IMT) recommend and why. My protocol is identical to his... so all posts in here are of interest to me while I continue to try and dial in.

-Jim

 

[IMT staff]

Right - but he is not talking about something subjective, like how he feels. He is giving concrete numbers showing TT levels aren't being achieved with an adequate dose of test cyp. His dose/schedule, in almost every man on the planet, would achieve higher TT levels than he is seeing.

Again - I am just gathering info here, as I am always curious what you guys (IMT) recommend and why.

-Jim

Well he also complained about high HH so that is what I am referring to symptomatically.

I wish I had more paper evidence for an explanation but unfortunately I just don't. Schedules just seem to work better for us on 1x per week or 1x every 5 days at the most.

Ive always said, trying to mimic your bodies natural T production with a long ester injectable is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, it just doesn't work.

I actually know some guys on every 9 day injects that work well too.

As I said earlier I don't know if the constant elevated T levels saturates the receptors or what, but many guys feel flat on 2x a week injects and also run into blood work issues with that schedule.

It works for some, I am just pointing out we have far better success with 1x a week. Since we have such a large amount of clients comparatively to most practitioners I tend to think our data is a little more accurate.

even if a practitioner has 3k patients, the chances of more than 5% of them being on TRT are very slim, which is about 150. We have far more than that since TRT is all we do.

Including the entire network, we are taking about a number well over 7500 in the data base.

 

[Jimstigator]

Well he also complained about high HH so that is what I am referring to symptomatically.

I wish I had more paper evidence for an explanation but unfortunately I just don't. Schedules just seem to work better for us on 1x per week or 1x every 5 days at the most.

Ive always said, trying to mimic your bodies natural T production with a long ester injectable is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, it just doesn't work.

I actually know some guys on every 9 day injects that work well too.

As I said early I don't know if the constant elevated T levels saturates the receptors or what, but many guys feel flat on 2x a week injects and also run into to blood work issues with that schedule.

It works for some, I am just pointing out we have far better success with 1x a week. Since we have such a large amount of clients comparatively to most practitioners I tend to think our data is a little more accurate.

Nice - thank you. Last post for this, as to not hijack - I have always wanted to try 100mg E5D, which you recommended in an old thread of mine. If my current regimine doesn't hold up, that's next. Always appreciate the insight, for exactly the reason you stated... I have one patient (me), you guys have thousands.

-Jim

 

[willnorthwest]

I'm gonna bump my t dose to 75mg e3d for a few weeks and then retest. This is really passing me off. Also @jim...The last time I gave blood was back in October, so I think I will be okay from an iron/ferritin standpoint. I don't plan in donating very often, just when hema levels actually flag high.

Also, the reason I inject e3d is because my shbg has always been very low, somewhere in the 10-13 range.

 

[cybrsage]

So instead of 0.4 every 3.5 days, you would recommend doing 0.6 every 5 days, yes? The 7 day amount is 0.8, which turns into 0.6 if shot every 5 days.

 

[IMT staff]

So instead of 0.4 every 3.5 days, you would recommend doing 0.6 every 5 days, yes? The 7 day amount is 0.8, which turns into 0.6 if shot every 5 days.

Honestly its really trial and error. If something is working well don't change a thing. If its not play with it and see what you get.

What your proposing sound about right.