Cycle with the Least HPTA decrease

[thunderin]

After swearing off of high dose cycles, what would be the least hard on HPTA function in terms of a cycle?

I know everyone will think I am a pussy for posting such a low dose cycle, but here goes.

Week 1-11 Primobolan 200mg ew
Days 1-80 Anavar 25mg ed
Days 1-80 HGH 2 iu's ed

Vets please comment/speculate on HPTA shitdown from such a cycle.

Thanks

 

[roccodart440]

Very interesting and unique.

I think most people would say the doses are too low and the gains wouldn't be worth it. Do I agree with that? No.

 

[GymLift]

The HGH won't supress the HPTA, at least.

I'd go with 300mg of testosterone/week with hCG.

 

[roccodart440]

Can HGH improve HPTA function?

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Can HGH improve HPTA function?

No.

 

[jarbulldog]

that cycle would be a complete waste because the doses are so low

 

[GymLift]

Can HGH improve HPTA function?

HGH isn't part of the HPTA loop.

 

[roccodart440]

HGH isn't part of the HPTA loop.

I understand it isn't directly part of the HPTA loop but HGH is sadi to have rejuvinating effects on the body.

I'm just wondering if HGH could have apositive influence, perhaps indierectly on say testosterone production?

check this out. THis shows an indirect effect.

Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I stimulate Leydig cell steroidogenesis.

Horikawa R, Asakawa K, Hizuka N, Takano K, Shizume K.

Department of Medicine, Tokyo Women's Medical College, Japan.

Leydig cells from 40 days old rats were incubated with or without human growth hormone (hGH) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) in the presence or absence of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), and testosterone and cyclic AMP (cAMP) levels in the medium were measured. Neither hGH nor IGF-I increased testosterone production in the absence of hCG in concentrations up to 1000 and 100 ng/ml, respectively. However, both peptides increased hCG-induced testosterone production in a dose-dependent manner. The maximal stimulatory concentrations of hGH and IGF-I were 100 and 50 ng/ml, respectively. Human GH did not further enhance the IGF-I-stimulated steroidogenesis. The hGH-augmented steroidogenesis was inhibited by anti-hGH IgG and anti-IGF-I IgG. hGH also enhanced hCG-stimulated cAMP production time dependently, suggesting that the stimulatory effect of hGH on steroidogenesis was due to an increased cAMP production. These data suggest that the effect of hGH might be mediated by locally produced IGF-I, which may act as a modulator on gonadal development in the presence of gonadotropin.

 

[GymLift]

If you use gear, then your body's LH and FSH output are going to decrease and the body will pretty much stop producing its own test (unless using hCG).. HGH isn't gonna change that.

HGH has positive effects; no doubt about that.

I don't know about this study. I see it was done on rats. I've known a few rats, but they were a different kind. Big ugly ones.

 

[Stone]

Also, you won't see much benefit from the GH is you only run it like you would an anabolic in a cycle. Won't be a total waste, but the real gains will start to come right when you'll be quitting it. A single 'cycle' of GH should be a minimum of six months.
As for the cycle, you'd have better results HPTA wise if you simply ran a normal cycle avoiding the super harsh drugs (deca, tren, etc...) and didn't run it too long, ran Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout and focused on post cycle therapy (pct). This would produce a better result both in terms of gains, and HPTA functioning then simply running a weak-ass cycle without those things(and the results would most likely be negligably different than running that cycle with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) etc...).
Just because you don't want to run high dose cycles, doesn't mean you have to go completely in the other direction and run something that may or may not even produce results. For example you may have to run 2 or 3 of those cycles to equal the results you would get in one test cycle. By then you would have done more damage to the HPTA than a single cycle of test.
I also think that the harshness of test is often overexaggerated for things like HPTA. The truth is that it is one of the less harsh drugs. Not the least, but definetly nowhere near the worst, probably falls somewhere in the low-middle.

 

[pscarb]

due to me and the wife wanting to have another baby i have been clean for 10months now i had a massive crash after my last cycle and it has taken me this long to fully recover.

i am 8 weeks from my qualifier and after some reading i have come to the conclusion that using Primo at 200-400mg per week will cause very little if any HPTA suppression(article by Bill Roberts) i understand that if i had not come off the gear for 10months the results would be very little but do you think this amount of Primo will show results?

 

[GymLift]

i am 8 weeks from my qualifier and after some reading i have come to the conclusion that using Primo at 200-400mg per week will cause very little if any HPTA suppression(article by Bill Roberts) i understand that if i had not come off the gear for 10months the results would be very little but do you think this amount of Primo will show results?

The profile that Bill Roberts wrote on methenolone enanthate (primobolan depot) says includes the text "by suppressing natural testosterone and DHT production." Where are you reading that it does not suppress the HPTA?

Also of note is that Bill Roberts considers 400mg/week to be a minimum dose. You proposed 200mg/week.

 

[GymLift]

For future cycles, I highly recommend that you run hCG thoughout the cycle.

 

[pscarb]

The profile that Bill Roberts wrote on methenolone enanthate (primobolan depot) says includes the text "by suppressing natural testosterone and DHT production." Where are you reading that it does not suppress the HPTA?

Also of note is that Bill Roberts considers 400mg/week to be a minimum dose. You proposed 200mg/week.

Bill Roberts wrote another article concerning inhibition called "Inhibitioan and Recovery of Natural Testosterone Production " Lawnsaver posted it on this board....
this is the section i was refering to....

Use an amount and kind of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) that is low enough to avoid much inhibition. Primobolan at 200-400 mg/week may achieve this effect. Again, gains will be compromised compared to a more substantial cycle.

i said between 200mg-400mg per week not 200mg per week as min....?

 

[GymLift]

i said between 200mg-400mg per week not 200mg per week as min....?

You're right. I was looking at thunderin's post.

If you try it, let us know what happens.

 

[pscarb]

will do mate...i understand it is a very low dose especially for me but due to my stupidity and blind focus in wanting to qualifiey for the NABBA Universe i really overdid my last cycle so have had to come off for 10 months to recover...i am hoping this min dosage will just give me the edge i need leading up to my next show...

 

[mrdraco]

I got shutdown on 40mg Anavar and 500/wk Primo at week 3. Any useful amount of anabolic steroid will impact your HPTA and 400/wk is the minimum for a noticeable result from Primo.

 

[pscarb]

how did you determine shutdown what blood test did you get done..?
what was your FSH and Test results?

 

[Incredible Mango]

I did test @ 300mg/wk for 7 weeks and noticed no shutdown. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but if it did I was none the wiser. No ball shrinkage, no lethargy, nothing. Got good gains too. I don't know about Primo, but everyone was telling me mine was too low as well ... I put on 15kg in 7 weeks.

 

[GymLift]

I did test @ 300mg/wk for 7 weeks and noticed no shutdown. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but if it did I was none the wiser.

You were certainly suppressed.

No ball shrinkage

The testes do not immeidately atrophy upon low LH and FSH.

, no lethargy, nothing.

You wouldn't have had those kind of symptoms during the cycle because, while your HPTA was suppressed, you did not have low testosterone.

Post cycle, you should have (and probably did) run post cycle therapy (pct) to recover testosterone levels as quickly as possible. Recovery is typically fairly easy from a cycle like what you described.

,Got good gains too. I don't know about Primo, but everyone was telling me mine was too low as well ... I put on 15kg in 7 weeks.

Yes, 300mg/week is a good dosage. And yes, it was good of you to ignore those that insisted that 500mg/week is a minimum.