Cycling for beginners :-A guide to safe androgen use

hateitorloveit said:
Hi I'm 24, jumped into this way to fast with little to no knowledge of it. Always been on the lean side (21 at 160 with around 3% body fat I'm 511) took my first cycle of pro hormones (superdrol250) at 23 and gained 20 pounds on cycle, off cycle Lost about 10. like an idiot 3 weeks later I started a new cycle of ( trenabolen) these were oral cycles. I got my levels checked 2 weeks after and there were all right on. At this point I was around 185 off but far from lean and not happy with my size. Like an idiot about 6 weeks after that cycle I did my first injectable cycle of test and deca for 10 weeks. I work close to 90 hour weeks and have a very un organized diet and routine during this cycle, still making it to the gym 4-5 days a week when ever I could squeeze it in. Still stayed around 190 but leaned out a bit. Again not having any knowledge on this and having a f-it personality I bridged the cycle for 4 weeks with test and started a t3 and Tren-e cycle every 5 days. I'm In the middle of it now and got to 210 but just recently worked out of state on a critical job that had to get done in a very short time frame. Hence working close to 20 hours a day sleeping in the truck on drives and in the hotel for 2 or 3 hours 14 days straight. Didn't take any shots, diet was Applebee's, chillies etc nothing great and only push ups and sit ups before bed I'm mid cycle and just lost 19 pounds during that period loosing a lot of definition. I'm back in routine now but learning more and more about this I realize I don't know near enough and I have been doing it very wrong. Hence not taking time off, taking it for way to long, falling up to 3 to 4 days past pin days and not dieting currently at all nor am I cycling right. All my levels are still fine and I've experienced close to know side effects other then lite back pimples. I'm going to finish this cycle with a proper diet should be slow a work for a while so I will have time to prep, solid gym rutine and get on cycle support for the rest of it and what I need for off. just chasing size with no regard to knowledge or health. I'm going to take a break after and figure it al out then hit it again the winter. Any tips or advice would be great, I really want to learn every thing about it and do it right next time. Please hold off on the you dummy comments I know I did it warping already.
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Sounds like you are anorexic with a body fat % that low. I am glad you are still alive!

Body fat percentage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you are running Tren by itself right now? How are you dealing with your self-induced hypogonadism?
 
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Hi everyone! I'm new on this great forum. I'm 18 years old, ben lifting seriously for 7 months. I'm 1.88 89-90kg with 10-11%bf, when I started lifting seriously I was 71-72kg with i think 9-10% bf and i think this is pretty impressive, let me know what you think.
I'm really serious in bodybuilding since September (7 months ago) and in nutrition, training and everything; I want to study nutrition at university.
I train 5 days a week with a 3 days split that I repeat (this is great, when I started to do higher frequency mi strength went up a lot and also my mass).
I spend at least 1 hour a day reading everything I can about BB world, gear usage included.
I absolutely don't want to use gear now, but in the future I think I will.
I thought about starting at 19 years and a half, which I know is really early.
I thought about starting at such young age since I think (looking at my transformation) I have a great genetic and want to get serious about this sport.
The question is: is starting early with a good genetic really good because I will make awesome gains or really bad since I will "waste" my potential?
I'm also really concerned about my health (does this mean something in English? I'm from Italy) and I know the risks of taking AAS, for this reason I will do it only if it's really useful.
Another question: what can be a good cycle for my age? Maybe a short cycle not to mess up my natural test. Is doing a short cycle of something enough powerful to make really good gains, (although the cycle is short) and include HCG and PCT a good idea to not mess up my HPTA?
All opinions are accepted, since I'm not sure I will do it.
 
AgoSte said:
Hi everyone! I'm new on this great forum. I'm 18 years old, ben lifting seriously for 7 months. I'm 1.88 89-90kg with 10-11%bf, when I started lifting seriously I was 71-72kg with i think 9-10% bf and i think this is pretty impressive, let me know what you think.
I'm really serious in bodybuilding since September (7 months ago) and in nutrition, training and everything; I want to study nutrition at university.
I train 5 days a week with a 3 days split that I repeat (this is great, when I started to do higher frequency mi strength went up a lot and also my mass).
I spend at least 1 hour a day reading everything I can about BB world, gear usage included.
I absolutely don't want to use gear now, but in the future I think I will.
I thought about starting at 19 years and a half, which I know is really early.
I thought about starting at such young age since I think (looking at my transformation) I have a great genetic and want to get serious about this sport.
The question is: is starting early with a good genetic really good because I will make awesome gains or really bad since I will "waste" my potential?
I'm also really concerned about my health (does this mean something in English? I'm from Italy) and I know the risks of taking AAS, for this reason I will do it only if it's really useful.
Another question: what can be a good cycle for my age? Maybe a short cycle not to mess up my natural test. Is doing a short cycle of something enough powerful to make really good gains, (although the cycle is short) and include HCG and PCT a good idea to not mess up my HPTA?
All opinions are accepted, since I'm not sure I will do it.
Click to expand...

Your way to young and have way more natty potential left. Your not done growing, your endocrine system isn't done developing di you really want mess yourself up.

You havn't done your home work either when you inject exogenous test into your body your HPTA will shut down and you will not produce test naturally period.

Not sure if you got tobth I s thread through here if not read it and all its links zilla thread of knowledge discusses the young and steroids:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

Educate yourself before you mess yor self up
 
Why use clomid and nolva at the same time? don't they do the same thing? And can you substitute nolva for an IA. I feel like if nolva blocks estrogens from attaching to the cells, it shouldn't matter how much T is converted to E.
 
shaded said:
Why use clomid and nolva at the same time? don't they do the same thing? And can you substitute nolva for an IA. I feel like if nolva blocks estrogens from attaching to the cells, it shouldn't matter how much T is converted to E.
Click to expand...

Welcome to ology. You have a lot of research to do.

Read this it will clear it up for you:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...lva-both-required-better-chance-recovery.html

And while your at it read this:
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html
 
hiram1st said:
Welcome to ology. You have a lot of research to do.

Read this it will clear it up for you:

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/653712-clomid-nolva-both-required-better-chance-recovery.html

And while your at it read this:
steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html
Click to expand...

I sincerely appreciate the welcome, but I already read those and they don't answer my question. First of all, I've never seen anything that suggests that FSH is increased more by clomid than it is by Nolva (and I don't care about fsh much anyway since I never want kids). Also, its good to have a small amount of estrogen so using 2 or 3 different anit estrogen type medications seems like it would make finding the right balance for estrogen very difficult.

I see that you're erring on the side of caution, but that much estrogen blocking might cause impotence at least while using it. And I still haven't got the answer to my question about aromatase inhibitors. What makes them better than Nolva during a cycle? From what I've read, Nolva seems to be the safer of the two (not to mention cheaper and easier to get a hold of)
 
shaded said:
I sincerely appreciate the welcome, but I already read those and they don't answer my question. First of all, I've never seen anything that suggests that FSH is increased more by clomid than it is by Nolva (and I don't care about fsh much anyway since I never want kids). Also, its good to have a small amount of estrogen so using 2 or 3 different anit estrogen type medications seems like it would make finding the right balance for estrogen very difficult.

I see that you're erring on the side of caution, but that much estrogen blocking might cause impotence at least while using it. And I still haven't got the answer to my question about aromatase inhibitors. What makes them better than Nolva during a cycle? From what I've read, Nolva seems to be the safer of the two (not to mention cheaper and easier to get a hold of)
Click to expand...

Forget the term "anti-estrogen". That just confuses people. You are confusing two entirely different classes of drugs. SERMs such as clomifene, Tamoxifen and Raloxifene. The other class has the Aromatase Inhibitors such as Anastrozole and exemestane.

The SERMs do not lower estrogen in your body. They just " trick" the pituitary into not seeing it (among other things). When the pituitary thinks your estrogen is low it tells your testicles to make more testosterone by sending out more LH.

AI's on the other hand do reduce estrogen in your body by binding with the aromatase enzyme receptors. When the receptors are "tied up" they are not available to convert testosterone into estrogen.

So both types of drugs do different things and are used in different ways. You need to learn about them and better understand how your HPTA feedback loop works.
 
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Megatron28 said:
Forget the term "anti-estrogen". That just confuses people. You are confusing two entirely different classes of drugs. SERMs such as clomifene, Tamoxifen and Raloxifene. The other class has the Aromatase Inhibitors such as Anastrozole and exemestane.

The SERMs do not lower estrogen in your body. They just " trick" the pituitary into not seeing it (among other things). When the pituitary thinks your estrogen is low it tells your testicles to make more testosterone by sending out more LH.

AI's on the other hand do reduce estrogen in your body by binding with the aromatase enzyme receptors. When the receptors are "tied up" they are not available to convert testosterone into estrogen.

So both types of drugs do different things and are used in different ways. You need to learn about them and better understand how your HPTA feedback loop works.
Click to expand...

Ok, I get it you take an aromatase inhibitor to keep your estrogen levels stable and keep from getting bloating and erectile dysfunction caused by to much E during and after the cycle. You take Nolva to stop gyno and restart LH after the cycle.. That all makes a lot more sense now, but I'm not going to use Clomid. That still seems redundant.
 
Megatron28 said:
Forget the term "anti-estrogen". That just confuses people. You are confusing two entirely different classes of drugs. SERMs such as clomifene, Tamoxifen and Raloxifene. The other class has the Aromatase Inhibitors such as Anastrozole and exemestane.

The SERMs do not lower estrogen in your body. They just " trick" the pituitary into not seeing it (among other things). When the pituitary thinks your estrogen is low it tells your testicles to make more testosterone by sending out more LH.

AI's on the other hand do reduce estrogen in your body by binding with the aromatase enzyme receptors. When the receptors are "tied up" they are not available to convert testosterone into estrogen.

So both types of drugs do different things and are used in different ways. You need to learn about them and better understand how your HPTA feedback loop works.
Click to expand...
@ Megatron28 - I hate to clog a thread with a gratuitous "great post" compliment, but your stuff in so damn clear and accurate I just have to.

@ shaded - I take an AI (Anastrozole)to block the conversion, or aromatization, of my testosterone into estrogen (E2) while taking an anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) like Testosterone Cypionate. So, I guess in one sense it keeps estrogen levels stable.

The endocrine system is absolutely amazing and this stuff borders on alchemy.
 
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I'm still a bit confused regarding this "Hcg 1000iu everyday for the last 10 days of your cycle leading up to your pct"
Are you saying count backwards 10 days from the beginning of PCT, which is 21 days from the last pin?
Ooorrrr, are you saying, starting on the day of your last pin, 1000ius of HCG for the next 10 days.
Ooorr, are you saying something else my feeble mind hasn't grasped yet? :)
 
Just curious, is Test E necessary for first cycle or will any test due as long as you adjust dosing times?
 
im 5'11
212 lbs
age:28
BF% - 14%

2nd cycle, first had good gains but no PCT to speak of.

Looking to run test again and maybe some eq. Can anyone hhelp advise me in the right direction. Im aware of the bloodwork, running adex while on cycle, looking about 10-12 week cycle.
 
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