Discussion on HGH

[THE-DET-OAK]

Hey Det! are you still running those pens you had? I bet you are loving life!

hahaha yes siirrrrr

2 iu is perfect number for me, on US stuff.

I don't even like the other shit now, I'm spoiled.

 

[Zeek]

That is what I like to see Det! this whole people need 8-10 iu and more of gh per day thing only applis to guys trying to gain a good bit of mass from it.

If doing 2iu of those pens is boosting your IGF lets say to 330 or so that is also high enough for new satellite cell creation even if at a slower pace.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

That is what I like to see Det! this whole people need 8-10 iu and more of gh per day thing only applis to guys trying to gain a good bit of mass from it.

If doing 2iu of those pens is boosting your IGF lets say to 330 or so that is also high enough for new satellite cell creation even if at a slower pace.

i also found study today showing how heavier people can be obese from low GH even if the IGF is normal, so that 100 bump doesn't seem like much, but i think it weighs much more than that.

the synergistic effect between small doses of testosterone and small doses of exo GH can not be over stated.

check this out


Originally Posted By Dr Scally.


Giannoulis MG, Sonksen PH, Umpleby M, et al. The Effects of Growth Hormone and/or Testosterone in Healthy Elderly Men: A Randomized Controlled Trial. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2006;91(2):477-84. The Effects of Growth Hormone and/or Testosterone in Healthy Elderly Men: A Randomized Controlled Trial

Context: Declines in GH and testosterone (Te) secretion may contribute to the detrimental aging changes of elderly men.

Objective: To assess the effects of near-physiological GH with/without Te administration on lean body mass, total body fat, midthigh muscle cross-section area, muscle strength, aerobic capacity, condition-specific quality of life (Age-Related Hormone Deficiency-Dependent Quality of Life questionnaire), and generic health status (36-Item Short-Form Health Survey) of older men.

Design, Settings, and Participants: A 6-month, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was performed on 80 healthy, community-dwelling, older men (age, 65–80 yr).

Interventions: Participants were randomized to receive 1) placebo GH or placebo Te, 2) recombinant human GH (rhGH) and placebo Te (GH), 3) Te and placebo rhGH (Te), or 4) rhGH and Te (GHTe). GH doses were titrated over 8 wk to produce IGF-I levels in the upper half of the age-specific reference range. A fixed dose of Te (5 mg) was given by transdermal patches.

Results: Lean body mass increased with GHTe (P = 0.008) and GH (P = 0.004), compared with placebo. Total body fat decreased with GHTe only (P = 0.02). Midthigh muscle (P = 0.006) and aerobic capacity (P < 0.001) increased only after GHTe. Muscle strength changes were variable; one of six measures significantly increased with GHTe. Significant treatment group by time interactions indicated an improved Age-Related Hormone Deficiency-Dependent Quality of Life questionnaire score (P = 0.007) in the GH and GHTe groups. Bodily pain increased with GH alone, as determined by the Short-Form Health Survey (P = 0.003). There were no major adverse effects.

Conclusion: Coadministration of low dose GH with Te resulted in beneficial changes being observed more often than with either GH or Te alone.


and this one


Sattler F, Bhasin S, He J, et al. Testosterone Threshold Levels and Lean Tissue Mass Targets Needed to Enhance Skeletal Muscle Strength and Function: The HORMA Trial. The Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences 2010;66A(1):122-9. Testosterone Threshold Levels and Lean Tissue Mass Targets Needed to Enhance Skeletal Muscle Strength and Function: The HORMA Trial

Background. In the HORMA (Hormonal Regulators of Muscle and Metabolism in Aging) Trial, supplemental testosterone and recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) enhanced lean body mass, appendicular skeletal muscle mass, muscle performance, and physical function, but there was substantial interindividual variability in outcomes.

Methods. One hundred and twelve men aged 65–90 years received testosterone gel (5 g/d vs 10 g/d via Leydig cell clamp) and rhGH (0 vs 3 vs 5 ***956;g/kg/d) in a double-masked 2 × 3 factorial design for 16 weeks. Outcomes included lean tissue mass by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, one-repetition maximum strength, Margaria stair power, and activity questionnaires. We used pathway analysis to determine the relationship between changes in hormone levels, muscle mass, strength, and function.

Results. Increases in total testosterone of 1046 ng/dL (95% confidence interval = 1040–1051) and 898 ng/dL (95% confidence interval = 892–904) were necessary to achieve median increases in lean body mass of 1.5 kg and appendicular skeletal muscle mass of 0.8 kg, respectively, which were required to significantly enhance one-repetition maximum strength (***8805;30%). Co-treatment with rhGH lowered the testosterone levels (quantified using liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry) necessary to reach these lean mass thresholds. Changes in one-repetition maximum strength were associated with increases in stair climbing power (r = .26, p = .01). Pathway analysis supported the model that changes in testosterone and insulin-like growth factor 1 levels are related to changes in lean body mass needed to enhance muscle performance and physical function. Testosterone’s effects on physical activity were mediated through a different pathway because testosterone directly affected Physical Activity Score of the Elderly.

Conclusions. To enhance muscle strength and physical function, threshold improvements in lean body mass and appendicular skeletal muscle mass are necessary and these can be achieved by targeting changes in testosterone levels. rhGH augments the effects of testosterone. To maximize functional improvements, the doses of anabolic hormones should be titrated to achieve target blood levels.

 

[DaHurt]

I'm just trying to get an opinion from the guys that have been around for awhile on HGH for say a guy thats 26? I was thinking about running some of hgh for about 6/12 months around 6/8 iu's/day ? Do you think it could be a good idea or a bad idea for me? I'm just interested in the fact right now and honestly, I listen so if you tell me its a dumbass idea for me trust me i wont do it. Ive read that bb's have used it at young ages but im not looking to mess myself up in the process either. I've had a couple older guys tell me that they wish they started using GH in the prime around mid/late 20's and they started in the early 30's.

I've read that even 4/5 IU's can cause almost a numb sensation in hands/feet/etc so on that fact, what side effects would come from higher doses of GH?

Something I found on doseage:
4-5 IU per day, many guys see visual changes in bodyfat within 3-4 weeks and within 3 months, the changes are significant.

7-8 IU per day, results take place more quickly. Within 1 month fat loss is definitely noticable and within 3 months most guys will have lost enough fat to look like a different BB'r.

In terms of building size, higher the dose climbs, the more size is built, up to about 10 IU per day. Beyond that point, igf-1 levels have already been maximized, although lipolysis will continue to increase indefinitely. After about 2 weeks at doses of 4-5 IU, you will begin to notice increases in size. This is due almost solely to an increase in muscle fullness, not muscle fiber size. Muscle fiber takes a while to grow and since igf-1 is almost primarily responsible for the muscle growth we see with GH, we should not expect raopid increases in muscle size.


Now let's get down to buisness. What are good numbers out there right now for certain HGH(pharma/human)? I know that Pharm grade has been scoring mid to high 30's.

Sry for all the questions, it's just nerve racking with the HGH epidemic happening out there right now.

Thanks

Haven't seen anyone answer that ^ yet! I'm also quite interested in hearing what the vets have to say, as I am in the same boat!

 

[Infantry87]

Haven't seen anyone answer that ^ yet! I'm also quite interested in hearing what the vets have to say, as I am in the same boat!

Hey man a big-ass wolf told me earlier that it shouldnt be a problem as long as the dose is reasonable and that certain old heads around here wished they started gh around our age instead of waiting till they were in their early 30's

 

[Zeek]

Excellent info Thx Det!


Certain old heads?? LOL

 

[Infantry87]

Excellent info Thx Det!


Certain old heads?? LOL

Lmao ok ok certain Vets

 

[DaHurt]

haha the wolf told me the same thing...I was just interested in hearing other takes! I've pretty much made up my mind though

 

[DaHurt]

Great post DET, those are some interesting studies!

 

[Malave16]

Interesting

 

[Zeek]

The return you will see from GH is less the younger you start, sucks but just how it is. Does this mean there still aren't good returns to be had for those under 30 using hgh

Absolutely not.

It's all about how much you plan to use and to achieve what goals.

 

[Infantry87]

The return you will see from GH is less the younger you start, sucks but just how it is. Does this mean there still aren't good returns to be had for those under 30 using hgh

Absolutely not.

It's all about how much you plan to use and to achieve what goals.

Honestly, my main use is gonna be higher IU's strictly for bulking purposes the first couple years till my age gets up there then I'll be more focused on the anti-aging/fat loss aspects of it.

 

[crazyfmike]

Haven't seen anyone answer that ^ yet! I'm also quite interested in hearing what the vets have to say, as I am in the same boat!

I've read Natty GH doesn't fall off until late 30's early 40's and not until late 40's we really NEED it.

I like the 1-2iu's as that will raise you right into the HIGH (way fucking HIGH)on a blood test.

I think the anti-aging benefit and use out weighs the bodybuilding aspect of the drug.

Remember my harder core athlete and comp BB disclaimer ;-)

 

[bah1a]

Gh

I'm not sure if when someone is referring to GH it's the same as referring to HGH??

 

[Zeek]

Yes Mam, HGH Human growth hormone

I'm not sure if when someone is referring to GH it's the same as referring to HGH??

 

[bah1a]

"tougher skin like raw hide"

That doesn't sound like a good thing. That sounds scary to me. I have beautiful skin. I don't want it looking like raw hide.

 

[Zeek]

Big difference between youthful, tight skin and rawhide.

HGH does not worsen your skin, it improves it

 

[bah1a]

That's what I'm hoping (and have read.) Thanks

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I'm not sure if when someone is referring to GH it's the same as referring to HGH??

The new word for HGH is somatropin, i don't know who decided that but the GH thing was getting a bad rap.

Big difference between youthful, tight skin and rawhide.

HGH does not worsen your skin, it improves it

I agree

 

[bah1a]

somatropin

I've read a lot about somatropin. I've been researching for a couple of months now. (Something I read eventually brought me here.) There are a bunch of other brand names like Jintropin, Hypertropin, etc. I think a lot of the sites are written by the same guy. They seem to be filled with a lot of good information but they eventually take you to the same site (China..) That's why I keep searching.