Doing everything the right way, is permanent shutdown really a possibility??

[s.d]

So the question is quite straightforward...in the case of moderate cycles, with normal doses and length, and with a full post cycle therapy (pct) is it still possible to never fully recover and have permanent low test? The reason why I'm asking is because after doing research i have seen multiple stories of people saying that even 1 simple test cycle "can" screw you up forever. On the other hand, when i ask experienced bodybuilders, i have been told that this is impossible, and that unless we're talking about multiple cycles or cycling for years, that it is not possible and full recovery will come sooner or later.

Any real life examples of people you may know for example are greatly appreciated. I would like to hear actual stories if any of you know any.


Thanks.

 

[Nightmare007]

Depends on the length and compounds used Easiest way to avoid it is using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throught your cycle

 

[clman8585]

Everybodies body is different.

 

[halfwit]

I had never done anabolics and was shut down permanently. It's all a roll of the genetic dice my man. On the bright side, I am able to cycle now without any fears of PCT/shutdown as a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patient.

 

[JimiThing]

Be very aware - there is a risk that you could have your endogenous t production impaired for life living the aas lifestyle. Make no mistake about it ...it is a possibility. Im not saying the majority of the time thats the case , but it shouldnt be dismissed as impossible.

 

[Moppy1]

Happened to me, I have got natural test back after 1.5 years of no usage whatsoever. Clomid and HCG didnt fix me, despite almost 1 year of cycling different dosages of HCG and clomid, separate and even together. Tired Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well as part of some of it. My test levels never got above 70. Normal range is 300-1200 for a male in his 20-30s.

P.S. I am 45 years old now (used for 10 years prior), and this was about 3 years ago I was forced to go cold turkey. Now on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and I supplement with lots of other goodies!!!!

 

[JD408]

Happened to me, I have got natural test back after 1.5 years of no usage whatsoever. Clomid and HCG didnt fix me, despite almost 1 year of cycling different dosages of HCG and clomid, separate and even together. Tired Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well as part of some of it. My test levels never got above 70. Normal range is 300-1200 for a male in his 20-30s.

P.S. I am 45 years old now (used for 10 years prior), and this was about 3 years ago I was forced to go cold turkey. Now on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and I supplement with lots of other goodies!!!!

i dont suppose you know anything about your fertility now?
Me and my wife have been thinking about trying.
Not sure if I can when on this stuff though and I wonder if I ever got perm shut down could i then

 

[Moppy1]

Already had my kids, purposely waited to start AAS till after by second kid when I was 34. However, lots of bros have kids while in the middle of a cycle, so it is possible, but it definitely can reduce fertility in many, and in some, make them more or less sterile. But again, there have been lots of threads about this here, and plenty of bros have gotten their old ladies knocked up. Hope it works out for you!

 

[JD408]

Already had my kids, purposely waited to start AAS till after by second kid when I was 34. However, lots of bros have kids while in the middle of a cycle, so it is possible, but it definitely can reduce fertility in many, and in some, make them more or less sterile. But again, there have been lots of threads about this here, and plenty of bros have gotten their old ladies knocked up. Hope it works out for you!

thanks, I was curious becasue Im an older guy myself.
Ive seen some say they got their girl pregnant while on cycle, but i dont know how many of them were in their late 30's and up. Im 38 now

 

[s.d]

Happened to me, I have got natural test back after 1.5 years of no usage whatsoever. Clomid and HCG didnt fix me, despite almost 1 year of cycling different dosages of HCG and clomid, separate and even together. Tired Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as well as part of some of it. My test levels never got above 70. Normal range is 300-1200 for a male in his 20-30s.

P.S. I am 45 years old now (used for 10 years prior), and this was about 3 years ago I was forced to go cold turkey. Now on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and I supplement with lots of other goodies!!!!

Thanks a lot for sharing your story. One thing i don't get, you said it took 1.5 years to get your natty test working again right? Then why did you still go for TRT?

 

[Moppy1]

I did 1.5 years of cold turkey and test levels never came back (they were 70 for my last blood test), not even close. So I went on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and it was amazing how great I felt again in about 2 weeks.

 

[Moppy1]

No such thing as permanent shutdown. Goes for the topic creator too.


Look up dr scally.

High doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) can reverse all AAS damage. Period

There are no medical studies to that effect. It is basically unknown territory, and there is no way to say what percentage of bros on long cycles for years will get natural test production back with even the most rigorous post cycle therapy (pct) regimens. There are definitely all sorts of hypogonadal syndromes that are completely refractory to HCG, and test is never produced adequately. That is known medical fact. But, as I said, it is completely unknown if long term users risk permanent damage, as it is possible that if you kill the leydig cells in your testis, they are never replaced....hence no test ever again from your nuts

 

[Moppy1]

I am familiar with Dr Scally and his ideas on post cycle therapy (pct) and test usage. He has been around for years and most of us use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the dosages he recommends. He made these recommendations based on real medical studies in people with hypogonadal hyogonadism, where real trials were done in a blinded manner with dozens of patients on different dosage regimens. Dr Scally only has 1 publication in a medical journal that is peer reviewed, and its the journal of "Medical Hypotheses". He has not conducted a single clinical trial or performed any sort of prospective analysis of hypoganadism induced by AAS usage. All his data are anecdotal and case report based, and should really be credited to real studies in genetically deficient patients with Hypogonadism.

Here is a link to his single paper listed on PubMed: Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism--toward... [Med Hypotheses. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

He actually could be right, but there is no credible medical evidence to support that, otherwise it is like walking into a GNC and having the guy behind the counter tell you what supplements to take for hair loss, based on what he says has worked in bros he knows

 

[Trust_]

i dont suppose you know anything about your fertility now?
Me and my wife have been thinking about trying.
Not sure if I can when on this stuff though and I wonder if I ever got perm shut down could i then

One of my friend got his wife pregnant and hes on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). So its always a possibility i guess.

 

[Moppy1]

Lmao unfortunately, this is EXTREMELY common.

But what that analogy lacks is the MD that scally has, versus anyone working for GNC (probably including their corporate employees). His degree alone lends something called ethos (credibility), but the fact he also has specific work in the field of using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to reverse hypogonadism, makes him worthwhile to listen to.

I sure as hell know I am going to cycle testosterone, and if it breaks me, I am calling him.

Just take a word of caution, Scully might be right and there could be a way to get back your testis and natural test production after years of prior abuse, but be cautious, he could be wrong cause he has no credible medical evidence, and just having an MD is certainly no guarantee of truth. In fact, your Dr Scully has been boasting for years of meeting with the FDA in a pre-IND format to run a clinical trial for his companies (HPT/Axis) treatment protocol, but he has never done so. Here is a list of current and past clinical trials for hypogonadism with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or similar:

Search of: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and hypogonadism - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

In my experience, MDs can be very non-scientific and base things on gut feelings given their previous experience with individual patients, but this is often not a way to establish real treatments that work for most people, hence the need for double-blinded prospective clinical trials as the gold standard for pharmaceutical-based care in America.

 

[Moppy1]

He also has a huge financial conflict of interest..........