first cycle diet help

[EuroTraining]

heres my intro thread with all my infor/stats

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...uestions-concerning-possible-first-cycle.html

Ok so I would like suggestions on my diet for first cycle as eating as a natural is different as when on gear. My goal is to have minimal or no fat gain. Currently Im doing a slow cut that looks something like this....

meal 1 - 1 cup egg whites, 1 cup oats

meal 2 - 9oz extra lean beef, 1 cup brown rice

meal 3 - 1 cup oats (pre w/o)

meal 4 - 50g protein shake

meal 5 - same as meal 2 with 2 cups veggies

meal 6 - 50g casein shake b4 bed

this would be considered my moderate carb day. On my low carb day I pretty much drop the oats. High carb day I usually consume about 350-400 carbs. Cals are around 2600ish. Im currently 193lbs (am).

Its probly going to be 6 months or so b4 I probly start but am trying to learn more on the diet in the meantime. How much can I eat/get away with before fat gain begins?

Im looking to be around 185lbs when I start at probly 6-7% or so and would really like to stay under 10%.

 

[3J]

bmr/tdee??

macros??

 

[EuroTraining]

bmr/tdee??

macros??

I used a bmr and tdee calc and came up with 2000/3300

Im currently around 2700 cals on a cut right now and am losing about 1-1.5lbs a week without cardio. Macros depend on the day but am around 40/40/20

 

[3J]

your losing 1- 1 1/2 lbs without cardio huh?? im guessing your training sessions are intense...

my only issue is why so much lean beef?? do you have problems with other carb sources..

i know your in shape.. i saw your contest pics.. not bad at all bud... well done..

 

[EuroTraining]

your losing 1- 1 1/2 lbs without cardio huh?? im guessing your training sessions are intense...

my only issue is why so much lean beef?? do you have problems with other carb sources..

i know your in shape.. i saw your contest pics.. not bad at all bud... well done..

I do a lot of supersetting. This time around Im kind of experimenting and manipulating my diet before incorporating cardio and see how I respond to that. When I dieted last time I was going really agressive on the diet and cardio was way too much for me (45-60 mins twice a day 7 days a week). I was burnt out like 4 weeks out. Im pretty much just mixing things up and trying to simplify things.

As far as the beef goes....Last contest prep I was eating a lot of different meats (chicken, tilapia, lean beef, salmon). It was just a lot of work cooking that many things all the time. I personally favor lean beef cuz of the taste and ease of cooking. Im trying to make dieting a lot less work. Close to contest Ill probly switch out the beef for salmon when my carbs are lower.

What do you mean by other carb sources? I do the rice and oats because they are very easy to cook. I did a ton of sweet patatoes last time and love those to death. Still have some on my high carb day, just a pain in the ass sometimes cooking them. I do favor them over everything though. On high carb days I also have rice cakes and fruit.

Right now Im doing 4 low days (under 100), 2 moderate days (175ish) and 1 high day (350-400)

 

[EuroTraining]

one other thing I noticed is my body really like to stay around the 8-10%bf range. I mean if I eat garbage it will easily go higher but when dieting thats where my body seems to stall a little. 8 weeks out last show my progress slowed a lot. Seemed like my weight was still dropping but I feel I was loosing mass as well. Last time I didnt carb cycle at all which could have been the issue. I was really low on carbs for a long ass time and I had a horrible rebound after the show. I binged hard for 1 day then starting eating normal foods (not quite pre contest healthy) and packed on 25lbs in 4 days. My metabolism was in the shitter.

 

[3J]

I do a lot of supersetting. This time around Im kind of experimenting and manipulating my diet before incorporating cardio and see how I respond to that. When I dieted last time I was going really agressive on the diet and cardio was way too much for me (45-60 mins twice a day 7 days a week). I was burnt out like 4 weeks out. Im pretty much just mixing things up and trying to simplify things.

As far as the beef goes....Last contest prep I was eating a lot of different meats (chicken, tilapia, lean beef, salmon). It was just a lot of work cooking that many things all the time. I personally favor lean beef cuz of the taste and ease of cooking. Im trying to make dieting a lot less work. Close to contest Ill probly switch out the beef for salmon when my carbs are lower.

What do you mean by other carb sources? I do the rice and oats because they are very easy to cook. I did a ton of sweet patatoes last time and love those to death. Still have some on my high carb day, just a pain in the ass sometimes cooking them. I do favor them over everything though. On high carb days I also have rice cakes and fruit.

Right now Im doing 4 low days (under 100), 2 moderate days (175ish) and 1 high day (350-400)

my mistake i ment protien sources..

 

[EuroTraining]

so what are the main differences when dieting natural or ON?

I figure youll want your protein higher. Whats the rule of thumb per lb of body weight while on gear?

Also what role does carbs play, carb cycling, refeeds, etc?

 

[kassius7]

Hello there

I'm hoping you can help me out with my diet plan? I'm having trouble figuring out what and how much to get into me before I start workin out. I've never done heavy weight lifting before, so never was too heavy or had tons of muscle, but was really toned and solid as I used to do Muay Thai.

As far as my eating habits go now days, I eat 3 meals per day.
morning I eat some country store with some berries and a banana, lunch time I eat some pasta (carbonnara, bolognese......) and for dinner usually potatoes with chicken or beef and veg. and in between I usually eat some bread with pate, cheese, fish. Not quite sue how much of these I'm eating in weight, but I'm sure it's too much. Here are my stats

my RMR is : 2038.45

Age : 27

Weight is : 94.6kg

BF : 25.5%

Height : 184cm.

I'm about to start the Stronglifts 5X5 workout.

as far as my goals go, I would eventually like to be about the same weight I am now but at 12-14% BF

I'm not quite sure how to set my diet up and would greatly appreciate some help with this. I have no problem eating anything at anytime as much as needed. Just need some help working out what to eat as far as calories and proteins are concerned.

Thanks in advance

Great thread by the way

 

[EuroTraining]

strong hijack

 

[3J]

Hello there

I'm hoping you can help me out with my diet plan? I'm having trouble figuring out what and how much to get into me before I start workin out. I've never done heavy weight lifting before, so never was too heavy or had tons of muscle, but was really toned and solid as I used to do Muay Thai.

As far as my eating habits go now days, I eat 3 meals per day.
morning I eat some country store with some berries and a banana, lunch time I eat some pasta (carbonnara, bolognese......) and for dinner usually potatoes with chicken or beef and veg. and in between I usually eat some bread with pate, cheese, fish. Not quite sue how much of these I'm eating in weight, but I'm sure it's too much. Here are my stats

my RMR is : 2038.45

Age : 27

Weight is : 94.6kg

BF : 25.5%

Height : 184cm.

I'm about to start the Stronglifts 5X5 workout.

as far as my goals go, I would eventually like to be about the same weight I am now but at 12-14% BF

I'm not quite sure how to set my diet up and would greatly appreciate some help with this. I have no problem eating anything at anytime as much as needed. Just need some help working out what to eat as far as calories and proteins are concerned.

Thanks in advance

Great thread by the way

hey buddy, you cant hijack other peoples threads...

if you take the time to open up your own new thread i'd be more then happy to help you out, but im not going to shift focus on this thread just cuz you decided you were more important then the original poster...


seems uv already posted on my free diet advice thread.. how many times u feel the need to post this??

horrible way to start..

 

[EuroTraining]

So JJ, what do u suggest as far as cals, macro breakdown, carb cycling, etc?

 

[3J]

So JJ, what do u suggest as far as cals, macro breakdown, carb cycling, etc?

it's really predicated on your goals...

im a big carb cycle fan, but i do a bit of a moderated version..

ie the bigger the muscle or the more it's lacking on that workout day, the more carbs i eat..

so ill do like 100g on shoulder days... 150g on arm days, 300g on leg days, 200g on back days, 200g on chest days..it's really predicated on your body.. this set up works well for me.. i manipulate my fat intake so that it makes up for what's lost in carbs on lower carb days...

after a while ill just stick to 150g of carbs a day with fats in the mid 100's..

then ill go keto for a while...

and ill switch it up again...

keep my body guessing...

 

[EuroTraining]

it's really predicated on your goals...

im a big carb cycle fan, but i do a bit of a moderated version..

ie the bigger the muscle or the more it's lacking on that workout day, the more carbs i eat..

so ill do like 100g on shoulder days... 150g on arm days, 300g on leg days, 200g on back days, 200g on chest days..it's really predicated on your body.. this set up works well for me.. i manipulate my fat intake so that it makes up for what's lost in carbs on lower carb days...

after a while ill just stick to 150g of carbs a day with fats in the mid 100's..

then ill go keto for a while...

and ill switch it up again...

keep my body guessing...

well I want to make as much gains as possible without slapping on too much fat. Id rather gain 10lbs of muscle and 2lbs of fat that 15lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat (for example). Keep the diet clean obviously but as far as macros and calories go should I follow the same rule as a natty would? Better to consume 2g protein per/lb of bodyweight?

 

[3J]

yea your protien levels are going to have to be a bit up... btw there's no point in dropping down to 7% to do gear... the point of gear is to get mass on... your gonna gain wait, your gonna bloat...

i like your setup and it's working for you it seems.. i dont know exactly what you eat on what days and you havn't made your macros completely clear to me... so i cant give solid advice.. i dont even have your bmr/tdee..

but if your dropping 1-1.5lbs a week, i'd say your doing something right there bud...

on cycle, i'd say you should eat maint calories, up cardio, the positive nitrogen retention should do the rest

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I'll disagree-

Gear should be used sparingly in Gaining muscle and maximized while losing fat-

Steroids are an anti-catabolic. Gaining muscle is easy to do without them.

yea your protien levels are going to have to be a bit up... btw there's no point in dropping down to 7% to do gear... the point of gear is to get mass on... your gonna gain wait, your gonna bloat...

i like your setup and it's working for you it seems.. i dont know exactly what you eat on what days and you havn't made your macros completely clear to me... so i cant give solid advice.. i dont even have your bmr/tdee..

but if your dropping 1-1.5lbs a week, i'd say your doing something right there bud...

on cycle, i'd say you should eat maint calories, up cardio, the positive nitrogen retention should do the rest

 

[3J]

I'll disagree-

Gear should be used sparingly in Gaining muscle and maximized while losing fat-

Steroids are an anti-catabolic. Gaining muscle is easy to do without them.

you can only go so far with muscle gain.. its your genetic limit...

gear can be used for both bulking and cutting... though i can see where your philosophy comes from...

as for gear being anti-catabolic.. that's what i was referencing to with the positive nitrogen retention...

but please, elaborate.... could you go into more detail??

 

[EuroTraining]

yea your protien levels are going to have to be a bit up... btw there's no point in dropping down to 7% to do gear... the point of gear is to get mass on... your gonna gain wait, your gonna bloat...

i like your setup and it's working for you it seems.. i dont know exactly what you eat on what days and you havn't made your macros completely clear to me... so i cant give solid advice.. i dont even have your bmr/tdee..

but if your dropping 1-1.5lbs a week, i'd say your doing something right there bud...

on cycle, i'd say you should eat maint calories, up cardio, the positive nitrogen retention should do the rest

I used a bmr and tdee calc and came up with 2000/3300

Im currently around 2700 cals on a cut right now and am losing about 1-1.5lbs a week without cardio. Macros depend on the day but am around 40/40/20

^

 

[3J]

i say up your calories to 3300 and add cardio with your cycle.. that's my advice.. the cardio will fight fat gains.. and the gear will retain muscle and add... that would be your best shot...

i'd run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle too, so you can control the bloat and possible fat gain from too much estrogen running through your system

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

you can only go so far with muscle gain.. its your genetic limit...

gear can be used for both bulking and cutting... though i can see where your philosophy comes from...

as for gear being anti-catabolic.. that's what i was referencing to with the positive nitrogen retention...

but please, elaborate.... could you go into more detail??

Oh i'll agree with the idea that at some point the body will not naturally hold more muscle. Where is that for each individual and even then how many people ever actually naturally achieve that genetic limit? Very few

At some point someone is going to have to use drugs to break past that point. However even a little goes along way when adding muscle if you get to that natural limit and continue eating properly.

Keeping that muscle "past your natural genetic limit" is much harder to do dieting down to very low bf (4 - 5%) and requires much more help then it does to put it on.

So I would rather see someone use more dieting then when they are trying to add-

As for reading the whole thread I just skimmed through and saw that one statement and felt it should be discussed.