First Cycle.. Opinions?

[Adamo69]

I just wanted to get some opinions from the more knowledgeable bunch of this site.. First my body stats:
Age:20
Current Weight: 190Lbs
Bodyfat: Around 10%
Training clean: 5 Years
I started my 12 week cycle with 40mg. of Axio D-bol per day for the first 2 weeks to bulk up. At the same time started shooting 400mg. of cyp from Pfizer Labs and 300mg. of Wyeth EQ per week split like this: Mon: 100mg. cyp
Wed: 100mg. cyp+100mg Eq
Fri: 100mg. cyp+100mg Eq
Sun: 100mg. cyp+100mg Eq
- Also going to throw some arimadex with that to keep estrogen levels down

Any concerns or opinions will be appreciated.

 

[g1234]

i would not run equipoise in a first cycle, the test should be perfect alone. I have the same wonders about the dbol but okay why not as a kick start..

what are ur plans for pct?

 

[Cakalac]

Yeah, I would drop the EQ for a later more experienced cycle and do cyp on ly llike on Mon/Thurs. Maybe 200mg/shot. That should do you good for a beginner. Have good post cycle therapy (pct) or you'll regret it!

 

[UKBodybuilder]

i would not run equipoise in a first cycle, the test should be perfect alone. I have the same wonders about the dbol but okay why not as a kick start..

what are ur plans for post cycle therapy (pct)?

Yeah, I would drop the EQ for a later more experienced cycle and do cyp on ly llike on Mon/Thurs. Maybe 200mg/shot. That should do you good for a beginner. Have good post cycle therapy (pct) or you'll regret it!

Test Cyp/En and EQ is a perfect first cycle. Test only cycles are not a good approach to any cycle in my opinion.

A more experienced cycle would be taking 3+ compounds (not including an oral kick start which is extremely common, experienced or not.)

This is a very simple and good first cycle (2 compounds: A base of Test and EQ), with a fast acting oral to give you gains from the get go, and cover you for the first 2-4 weeks.

post cycle therapy (pct) is required after any cycle.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Test Cyp/En and EQ is a perfect first cycle. Test only cycles are not a good approach to any cycle in my opinion.

A more experienced cycle would be taking 3+ compounds (not including an oral kick start which is extremely common, experienced or not.)

This is a very simple and good first cycle (2 compounds: A base of Test and EQ), with a fast acting oral to give you gains from the get go, and cover you for the first 2-4 weeks.

PCT is required after any cycle.

You just lost any/all credibility you may have thought you had.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

You just lost any/all credibility you may have thought you had.

bro i don't know what your problem is, but you have been arguing with me since i signed up on this site. I'm a very knowledgeable person from another board and i have come to this board to share my knowledge.
In my opinion as YOU the MODERATOR and SITE ADMIN! of this board you are loosing your credibility to everybody around you. I've even had other moderators agree with me and others members agree with me, yet you will always take an opposing view against me. Simple because you seem to dislike me.

If you have a disagreement with me then explain your reasons why and we will debate the topic!
Don't just post a vague useless post because your either having a roid rage or because you decided to dislike somebody on this board for no apparent reason other than because you thought my cycle dosages were to high LMFAO!

Seriously bro, maybe you will ban me for this post, (although i don't see why because i never broke any rules on this board), but you need to seriously lighten up, or go and quarrel with somebody who actually is wrong about something.

Like i said... if you DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING I HAVE STATED THEN EXPLAIN WHY YOU DISAGREE.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

oh and just on a side note buddy, i don't think i have credibility, i know i have credibility. I have talked and delt with many of the top people in the industry including high end pro's.

AND i don't need to have credibility in your eyes LOL. People that know me, and many do, know that i am very knowledgeable. I would ASSUME that as "Site Manager" and "Administrator" you would be knowledgeable too..

I have nothing more to say. Argue your points next time buddy. Peace

 

[g1234]

Guys, the main goal of a forum is to express different ideas and share experiences. If we all had the same answers it would be pointless As a newbie, i can tell the post i learn the more from are the ones with strong debates over diff opinions.

UKBodybuilder, what do u think of the dosages he has planned in this test/eq cycle?

 

[Soldier of Megiddo]

The idea behind a test only first cycle is several fold.

1. To access the base of all future cycles. In this way the level of tolerance can be evaluated in the absence of confounding factors such as additional compounds. Testosterone is really required to fulfill the 100s of functions in the body that testosterone and its metabolites are required for. This is necessary in the presence of a suppressed HPTA when exogenous Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are administered.

2. Most users will agree that gains are nearly the same for a beginner whether testosterone alone or testosterone plus additional compounds are used.

3. To systematically approach Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use the base is used first followed by an assessment of one additional compound at a time in each successive cycle until a significant number have been evaluated. I.e. test E + deca, test E + equipoise, test E + d-bol, test E + anavar, test E + tren A... At that point a third could be added.

4. People react differently to non-bioidentical Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) compounds. To find the ones that works best a systematic approach is warranted. It is safest and most effective to start with the bioidentical compound first testosterone. note that the active compound of a test ester is the testosterone base, which is released from the ester upon partition out of the injection site by serum esterase.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

bro i don't know what your problem is, but you have been arguing with me since i signed up on this site. I'm a very knowledgeable person from another board and i have come to this board to share my knowledge.

O'rly........hahaha

I disagreed with two things you said prior to this.

One was that a 3 week cycle of Tren was sufficient and the second was where you stated that Tren was liver toxic. Your knowledge shines with those two statements......lol

Now you spout off that newbies should run two or three compounds for their first cycle.

Let me enlighten you as to why you are wrong again;

• When running more than one compound on a first cycle, how can one tell where negative sides are coming from?
• If you don't know what steroid is causing you negative sides, how are you supposed to combat those sides?
• How can you guage which compound is giving you good results? That is something invaluable in planning future cycles.
• The new user could even have one totally fake steroid and never even know as they have nothing to compare to.

I could go on and on with this, but it's all been stated time and time again, and hopefully you're smart enough to get the drift.

As to you saying to the original poster in this thread that his cycle plan is good, you really think that only 300mg/week of EQ is going to do anything?
You think that D-bol for only 2 weeks is going to do a lot? You think that Arimidex is a good choice for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), ever heard of Aromasin or AIFM?

Maybe you should go talk to some of your "high end pro's" and "top people in the industry" some more.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

Guys, the main goal of a forum is to express different ideas and share experiences. If we all had the same answers it would be pointless As a newbie, i can tell the post i learn the more from are the ones with strong debates over diff opinions.

UKBodybuilder, what do u think of the dosages he has planned in this test/eq cycle?

I think the dosages he has stated for his first cycle are perfect.

400mg Test Cyp/week
300mg EQ/week

these dosages are by no means high at all, maybe even a touch on the low side. 400mg Test per week is usually a good starting point for a first cycle, i certainly would not go any lower than that, even if it was a first cycle.
The 300mg per week of EQ is an excellent addition to a first cycle, keeping it a basic cycle with 2 compounds. The EQ with very little sides, its more anabolic than androgenic. The Test has the more androgenic effect to it, and will keep his sex drive and overall well-being higher while running the EQ.

The extra 100mg of Test per week higher than the EQ is also good.

This addition of dbol for the first 2-4 weeks is a good way to cover him for the first few weeks of the cycle, it will give him a little bit of water retention and help him bulk up, also increasing strength for heavier lifting. Essentially increasing his overall mass, so by the time the EQ and Test Cyp kicks in, his gains will be further increased and the muscle will become denser and more quality.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

The idea behind a test only first cycle is several fold.

1. To access the base of all future cycles. In this way the level of tolerance can be evaluated in the absence of confounding factors such as additional compounds. Testosterone is really required to fulfill the 100s of functions in the body that testosterone and its metabolites are required for. This is necessary in the presence of a suppressed HPTA when exogenous Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are administered.

2. Most users will agree that gains are nearly the same for a beginner whether testosterone alone or testosterone plus additional compounds are used.

3. To systematically approach Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use the base is used first followed by an assessment of one additional compound at a time in each successive cycle until a significant number have been evaluated. I.e. test E + deca, test E + equipoise, test E + d-bol, test E + anavar, test E + tren A... At that point a third could be added.

4. People react differently to non-bioidentical Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) compounds. To find the ones that works best a systematic approach is warranted. It is safest and most effective to start with the bioidentical compound first testosterone. note that the active compound of a test ester is the testosterone base, which is released from the ester upon partition out of the injection site by serum esterase.

I wont completely disagree with you on your points, well except maybe for point #2. I believe that running Test and EQ first cycle will yield better results than test alone. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that there is a difference between the receptors of somebody who had not taken juice before and somebody who has, provided the person who has taken juice before has fully allowed their body and receptors (up-regulation) to fully recover and regenerate post cycle. This may take up to 1-2 years in some cases.

I would say on point #4 that many people in fact would tend to react harsher to testosterone than some non-bioidentical compounds, due to the fact that testosterone is strongly androgenic. And with stronger androgenic steroids, usually comes more side effects, including: balding, raised estrogen, altered sex drive and male sex characteristics.
However in saying this, i do still believe that Test should be taken in any cycle.
For example: EQ taken alone may shut you down, and kill sex drive a little, but it may and i believe would have less side effects than a test cycle, due to the nature of the compound and the fact that it is a less androgenic compound.

Your point #3 is not something i can reply to, however i know many people who don't add just 1 compound extra in a successive manner. I am not saying it's not a good approach. But realistically, i know people who have ran 7 compounds at once at different times during a 20 week cycle, these are semi-pro/pro's that i used to train with.
For example:
First cycle
Test E
EQ
Second cycle
Test E
EQ
Tren
And Winstrol (winny) in final weeks

but overall your points are pretty solid. Im just trying to express on this thread that Test Cyp and EQ is not a bad first cycle by any means at all.
And for anybody to say this is overboard for a first cycle, i would have to say from my knowledge that they are mistaken. ESPECIALLY with this lower dosages.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

O'rly........hahaha

I disagreed with two things you said prior to this.

One was that a 3 week cycle of Tren was sufficient and the second was where you stated that Tren was liver toxic. Your knowledge shines with those two statements......lol

Now you spout off that newbies should run two or three compounds for their first cycle.

Let me enlighten you as to why you are wrong again;

• When running more than one compound on a first cycle, how can one tell where negative sides are coming from?
• If you don't know what steroid is causing you negative sides, how are you supposed to combat those sides?
• How can you guage which compound is giving you good results? That is something invaluable in planning future cycles.
• The new user could even have one totally fake steroid and never even know as they have nothing to compare to.

I could go on and on with this, but it's all been stated time and time again, and hopefully you're smart enough to get the drift.

As to you saying to the original poster in this thread that his cycle plan is good, you really think that only 300mg/week of EQ is going to do anything?
You think that D-bol for only 2 weeks is going to do a lot? You think that Arimidex is a good choice for an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), ever heard of Aromasin or AIFM?

Maybe you should go talk to some of your "high end pro's" and "top people in the industry" some more.

I only have time to reply to 2 of these points right now, can't be on the computer all day. **I highlighted points in bold that i'm replying to**

For many people 3 weeks of tren in addition to an already solid cycle has given them good results and with a fast acting ester like an acetate, results can be seen starting almost immediately as fast as 3 days. Im not saying you can't run it for longer, but you acting as if 3 weeks will provide no results.. this is completely untrue.
As for the liver and kidney damage cause by tren, may be somewhat to do with the strong amounts of impurities and bonding agents found within the solution itself, im not going to argue all day about this.. it's pointless.

Of course 300mg per week of EQ is going to do something, in fact it will do quite a lot. Wyeth is a very good brand, dosed 100% accurate. Vet Grade.
1 minute ur getting at me for talking about dosages too high lol and now, ur getting at me for supporting lesser/lower dosages on a first cycle.. come on man.. are you having a bad day or what?

Dbol for 2 weeks do a lot? YES it will do a lot, it may not be 4 weeks, but on 2 weeks of dbol results can easily be seen. Especially at 40mg/day. The initial results and increase in body weight can be seen within the first few days. 2 weeks may not be ideal, 4 weeks would be better IMO, but 2 weeks yes, he will see results and those results will help achieve his goal. enough said.

I think arimidex is a very good choice of Aromatase inhibitor (AI). I personally think it's the best Aromatase inhibitor (AI) out there, not too strong like letro for example, but it gets the job done, with minimal side effects.
and yea buddy i've never heard of aromasin or any other anti-estrogens. psss come on..

gotta hit the gym now, i'll be on later

 

[needsize]

my first cycle was test and dbol, and I generally recommend either that or test alone as a first cycle. I gained 28lbs and kept 22lbs from that cycle..

I agree that beginners should stick to generally one compound, with the exception of something fast acting like dbol as a kick start. As someone else already mentioned, starting with one compound and systematically adding another one each cycle is definitely the best way to figure out how your body responds to each drug. The shotgun approach is just going to leave you guessing. Not to mention, generally your cycles tend to get bigger with every one, so it make sense to start with a low dose, so you have room to add in later cycles, otherwise you stop growing or end up using some retarded doses in a very short time

 

[Cakalac]

wow..... there's a lot of knowledge on this thread. Good read! I agree with starting low and little to detect possible sides from each compound. My first was 400mg/wk test enanthate and gained 18lbs. It only lasted 6 wks.

 

[Trevdog]

While I generally agree with most of the reasons given here for sticking with test only for a first cycle, UK BBer makes some good points too.

I also don't think that the cycle the orginal poster is doing is a bad cycle. Perhaps the strongest argument against it is that if side effects are experienced, it would be difficult to tell which drug caused them. However, it must also be acknowledged that the chances of experiencing unpleasant side effects are greater with a higher dose of test only than they are with a moderate dose of test stacled with a moderate dose of eq. If such side effects are experienced (which is unlikely), it is almost certainly from the test and there are means to deal with it. Moreover, the user now knows that he is a sensitive individual and now a much stronger case exists for the next cycle to be test only, at least at first, so the user can assess his reaction to test before mixing something else in.

 

[mark444]

2 points to make about this thread

Number 1 :

... Don't just post a vague useless post because your either having a roid rage ...

this is a BULLSHIT statement. The epitome of a man who has had his pride hurt and is reaching for anything to throw back.

look, StoneCold made a valid arguement against your point of view and obviously bruised an ego, but pulling the "roid rage card" in a steroid forum??? come on!!! ridiculous.

if you want to estabish the same kind of "credibility" that you enjoy in other forums I sincerely suggest you leave that shit at the door.

Number 2 :
some anecdotal evidence:

My friend and I ran the a similiar program. I stuck with 400 mg/wk test cyp for my first cycle, while he ran 500 mg/wk test cyp, 400 mg/wk deca, and 40 mg/day Anavar (last 6 weeks only) for his first cycle.

long story short, cycles are over...

• I gained 25 lbs compared to his 20 lbs.

• I retained almost all my weight while he retained about half.

• He stumbled all the way through his cycle and now knows nothing about which compounds tripped him up vs which worked okay while i now know i love test, lol.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

2 points to make about this thread

Number 1 :


this is a BULLSHIT statement. The epitome of a man who has had his pride hurt and is reaching for anything to throw back.

look, StoneCold made a valid arguement against your point of view and obviously bruised an ego, but pulling the "roid rage card" in a steroid forum??? come on!!! ridiculous.

if you want to estabish the same kind of "credibility" that you enjoy in other forums I sincerely suggest you leave that shit at the door.

Number 2 :
some anecdotal evidence:

My friend and I ran the a similiar program. I stuck with 400 mg/wk test cyp for my first cycle, while he ran 500 mg/wk test cyp, 400 mg/wk deca, and 40 mg/day Anavar (last 6 weeks only) for his first cycle.

long story short, cycles are over...

• I gained 25 lbs compared to his 20 lbs.

• I retained almost all my weight while he retained about half.

• He stumbled all the way through his cycle and now knows nothing about which compounds tripped him up vs which worked okay while i now know i love test, lol.

BUDDY, you need to read over the whole thread again.. Stonecold didn't even make a valid argument against my advice on this thread at all until later. HENCE I TOLD HIM HE WAS VAGUE, WHICH WAS PRIOR TO HIM ARGUING ANYTHING AT ALL! RE-READ THE THREAD BRO! All he said was: "You just lost any/all credibility you may have thought you had." which WAS VAGUE!
Maybe you should have posted the whole paragraph that i wrote, here.. let me do it for you:
"If you have a disagreement with me then explain your reasons why and we will debate the topic!
Don't just post a vague useless post because your either having a roid rage or because you decided to dislike somebody on this board for no apparent reason other than because you thought my cycle dosages were to high LMFAO!"

Buddy if your going to try and contribute or should i say "suck up" to Stone cold.. then at least have ur facts right. I'll wait until you read the thread and then we can talk.

As for the bruised ego and hurt pride lol, you only make me laugh, get real man! This thread was actually starting to go in the right direction until you posted.

Please don't share stories about dumb friends of yours that didn't know how to run cycles, we're actually talking about proper cycles in this thread, and good advice from people who know what they are talking about.

Like i said and i'll say again, re-read the thread and then comment, and please don't suck up, you're only making yourself look REALLY bad.

 

[UKBodybuilder]

While I generally agree with most of the reasons given here for sticking with test only for a first cycle, UK BBer makes some good points too.

I also don't think that the cycle the orginal poster is doing is a bad cycle. Perhaps the strongest argument against it is that if side effects are experienced, it would be difficult to tell which drug caused them. However, it must also be acknowledged that the chances of experiencing unpleasant side effects are greater with a higher dose of test only than they are with a moderate dose of test stacled with a moderate dose of eq. If such side effects are experienced (which is unlikely), it is almost certainly from the test and there are means to deal with it. Moreover, the user now knows that he is a sensitive individual and now a much stronger case exists for the next cycle to be test only, at least at first, so the user can assess his reaction to test before mixing something else in.

I agree with what you are saying here.

Test only cycle would make it easier to determine where the side effects are coming from. This is true, this is obvious. But it does not mean that the only way to run a first cycle is test only. And greater gains can be seen when stacking with another compound, nobody can deny this, experienced or not.

I agree with you when you said "the chances of experiencing unpleasant side effects are greater with a higher dose of test only than they are with a moderate dose of test stacked with a moderate dose of eq".
This was the point that i was trying to get across earlier. There really is not much chance that many side effects if any at all are going to be experienced with EQ when it is taken with test, Hence it is in fact one of the better compounds to run with test for a first cycle. More likely the side effects will be generated from running the test. In terms of low side effects EQ is known for that.

I would try to conclude from everything that everybody has contributed to this thread, that a test only cycle is not a bad option for a first cycle.. although i personally don't think there is anything wrong with using a 2 compound first cycle, especially if it's a low side effect steroid such as EQ.

If i hadn't run my first cycle yet...My first cycle would be a test and EQ cycle, with 4 weeks of dbol at the start.

However if one chooses to run a test only cycle as a first cycle, then that's fine. I would just rather put a little more into it, and be happier with the outcome. Nothing wrong with a test and EQ cycle for a first cycle in my opinion. In the end we all have our own opinions, and everybody is entitle to their own opinion, i'm just here to share my knowledge and offer advice.
And as i'm sure, everybody who has been reading this thread knows or should be able to detect that i am very knowledgeable in this field, and i don't just say something stupid with no ground to stand on.

 

[mark444]

BUDDY, you need to read over the whole thread again.. Stonecold didn't even make a valid argument against my advice on this thread at all until later. HENCE I TOLD HIM HE WAS VAGUE, WHICH WAS PRIOR TO HIM ARGUING ANYTHING AT ALL! RE-READ THE THREAD BRO! All he said was: "You just lost any/all credibility you may have thought you had." which WAS VAGUE!

you missed the point! i even put it in bold!! i was NOT critiquing your definition of vague, i was showing my disappointment in your eagerness to throw out "roid rage" as the motivation for StoneColds comments.

From an outsider i might expect such small-mindedness, but from a member of the very faction that is trying to fight bogus speculation about "roid rage" YOU AREN'T HELPING!!!

i welcome you to share your opinion and your research even if many disagree, thats what makes this a forum.