First cycle, the ultimate winter bulk ( I bet you love these ones, sorry!)

[shyguy87]

Hey, I'm new here so I'll start with a little introduction

I'm 184cm tall, 89kg today. I've been doing weightlifting/training for 5-6 years. When I first started I was this puny person at 50kg. I spent the first few years of this screwing around, not really knowing what I was doing in the gym, and knowing even less of what I was doing in the kitchen. The 3 latest years, I've gotten more into it and it really interests and entertains me to have something that I love and know. It's become a lot more serious, both in the gym and in the kitchen - I know what I'm doing and I know that I want to keep doing it. It's time to step it up one more notch, though.

The last few months I've been cutting pretty drasticly (from about 105kg to 87kg) with the aid of an extremely strict dietplan and a lot of hard work in the gym. I'm now satisfied and not afraid to start gaining weight for the winter. I have earlier had issues with cutting down the kilos, resulting in going straight back into a heavy bulk which then leads to me being a fatass. That's fixed properly this time!

I've decided to try steroids. I have good knowledge of how common it actually is. Some of my friends even use it.

I wanted to start about a year ago, with the steroids that is. But the circumstances weren't right and I decided to wait. It's now been a year and I am ready for the ultimate winter bulk (one of many to come, I hope!)

Period ---- Substance - Producer/lab --- Dosage/Frequency
---------------------------------------------------------
Week 1-10: Test prop -- IP ------------- 150mg EOD ------
Week 1-4: T-bol ------ Phenom -------- 30mg ED ---------
Week 11-15: Nolvadex as PCT

Any comments and thoughts on this? Dosages, choice of substance, producer etc.

Now, for the actual work: The gym and the kitchen

I have earlier been running a 2split (day1: chest+arms+abs | day2: legs+back), twice a week when bulking. Atm I am doing a 5split as I don't have enough energy for a heavy 2split, as I am still cutting.
Should I return to my old 2split twice a week, maybe even 3 times a week? Or should I try a 2+3split. Here I am thinking heavy compound exercises for day1 and day2, day 3 off, then more isolated exercises for day 4, 5 and 6. Day 7 off. Or just stick to 5split? I kinda assume restitution and energylevels won't be my biggest issue when on the juice.

Nutritionwise, what macros should I be aiming for? I don't really care if I add some extra fat to do bigger gains. The summer is over after all! I know how my body reacts to calorie deficits or calorie increases. But I guess it'll all be a different story with steroids. How much over my daily calorie consumption should I be? What split for macros? 40/40/20? 60/20/20?
Any specific supplements to be added to this? I'm regularly using whey protein (doh!) BCAAs, fish oils, multi vits/minerals and green tea. I also love creatine monohydrate, it has a great effect on me if I take proper periods off it. Now i've been off for 2 months+, so thinking of adding this too.

I appreciate all answers and comments. Fire away!

 

[ardbeg]

I'm 184cm tall, 89kg today. I've been doing weightlifting/training for 5-6 years. When I first started I was this puny person at 50kg. I spent the first few years of this screwing around, not really knowing what I was doing in the gym, and knowing even less of what I was doing in the kitchen. The 3 latest years, I've gotten more into it and it really interests and entertains me to have something that I love and know.

and you're how old?

Nutritionwise, what macros should I be aiming for? I don't really care if I add some extra fat to do bigger gains. The summer is over after all! I know how my body reacts to calorie deficits or calorie increases. But I guess it'll all be a different story with steroids. How much over my daily calorie consumption should I be?

Don't care if you add fat to your body or to your diet?

What split for macros? 40/40/20? 60/20/20?

Your goal is to bulk, yes?

I'm regularly using whey protein (doh!) BCAAs, fish oils, multi vits/minerals and green tea. I also love creatine monohydrate, it has a great effect on me if I take proper periods off it. Now i've been off for 2 months+, so thinking of adding this too.

I'm a big believer in getting in as much protein from actual food as I can get. When and how are you using the whey protein? Fish oil is always good. Personally I take 3g of vitamin c, and a large B stack to help with mood and appetite. Creatine is generally good stuff, although the quality varies from product to product.

I don't think you mentioned your explicit goals except that you want to bulk. You're training for weight/power lifting? Are you a bodybuilder?

 

[bigficker]

I wouldn't recommend prop for your first cycle. The eod pin can be a lot for a first cycle. Also I wouldn't use nolva on cycle. You should replace that with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (adex or aromasin). Get some Test E or C and run it for 12 weeks.

 

[apetrills]

This isnt what most would consider a winter bulk

Maybe test E and Anadrol or dbol

Just my two cents

 

[shyguy87]

and you're how old?

Don't care if you add fat to your body or to your diet?

Your goal is to bulk, yes?

I'm a big believer in getting in as much protein from actual food as I can get. When and how are you using the whey protein? Fish oil is always good. Personally I take 3g of vitamin c, and a large B stack to help with mood and appetite. Creatine is generally good stuff, although the quality varies from product to product.

I don't think you mentioned your explicit goals except that you want to bulk. You're training for weight/power lifting? Are you a bodybuilder?

I am 24, soon 25. I guess I should've said, I just assumed people would take the numbers in the username as year of birth.

My goal is to bulk indeed, it's just that I've read and heard a lot of different things said about staying away from too much carbs, or too much fats, "the juice will take care of it" and so on. But having put on solid mass, clean, before I guess I'll stick to my old bulking habits of high protein, moderate carb and low fat.

My goal is to get bigger (.. lol) at first. Both bodybuilding and strongman interest me really. I've always been the little guy, well not so much anymore but I think I am somehow still affected by that from my teenage years (i was really really skinny all the way up to 20 years old, as I wrote - i REALLY was 50kg, went up to 105 and now down at 88-89. 87 this morning actually, dat intermittent fast going on)

I wouldn't recommend prop for your first cycle. The eod pin can be a lot for a first cycle. Also I wouldn't use nolva on cycle. You should replace that with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (adex or aromasin). Get some Test E or C and run it for 12 weeks.

I kind of agree and I am strongly considering it. My contact who helped me set up this initial example of a cycle advised me to stick to prop as he said he had seen so many beginners regretting ever getting on steroids, and prop was then the safest choice if you would want to jump off. But I am not a quitter and my mind is so focused on doing this, that I am strongly considering going for a longer lasting ester. How much does the 15% difference in how much use you actually get out of the testosterone from choosing prop over C or E? I recall seeing some list with percentages where prop comes out on top.

I am not immediately put off by the thought of injecting EOD, but I am aware of first time users reporting pains in the injection area, which doesn't sound very appealing.

This isnt what most would consider a winter bulk

Maybe test E and Anadrol or dbol

Just my two cents

dbol on first cycle? I considered it but was strongly suggested against it by several people.

lol "ultimate winter bulker" ... I was expecting test/deca/drol

But ya OP how old are you? lets start there

Sorry for the flimsy topic name, lol - might not be the completely opposite of ultimate for many of you, but consdering it'll be my first cycle (and tbf, every winter bulk is epic after cutting for 5 months straight super strict diet) it seemed like a fitting title!

And yeah, age 24.

Thanks for the replies guys, really appreciate it. Keep em coming!

 

[shyguy87]

Shameful self-bump

Decided to up the duration from 8 to 10 weeks, so atm I'm looking at:

Week 1-10: Test prop 150mg eod
Week 1-4: Tbol 30mg ed
Week 11-14: Nolva 20mg ed

I somehow feel from what I am reading everywhere (and me always thinking "better safe than sorry") that I should run HCG or at least some Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (as bigficker stated, ty) during the cycle. But thing is, where I am from, the supply of arimidex/aromasin seems completely dry and according to various sources, it's been like this for a looong time.

I am mentally prepared to do this first cycle, but would it be considered reckless and stupid to even go ahead with only nolva at hand?

Some more comments on the original post would also be highly appreciated, ty!

 

[Jack Tors]

ultimate winter bulk what a joke

id go 12 weeks
dbol not tbol but whatever
adex during but nolva is fine
nolva and clomid during pct

 

[DinoRamada]

i would go 12 weeks. i am running test prop at 150mg eod for my first cycle now. i'm about 16 days in. don't be afraid of the pip. for me it went away after the first week. feeling the test within the first week is well worth the pain. plus you don't have to wait weeks to start pct at the end of cycle. just my .02

 

[Jack Tors]

lol "ultimate winter bulker" ... I was expecting test/deca/drol

But ya OP how old are you? lets start there

right just a normal cycle which is fine title threw me off
tren npp deca dbol etc

 

[shyguy87]

Yeah I know the title is a bit misleading, it wasn't super serious or anything ^.^

Any more comments? I'm kind of worried about not having any Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand/or for use during cycle, (as explained in my previous post) for my first cycle.
Maybe it's not really a biggie with such a light cycle? Another thing, 4 weeks of tbol - too little perhaps?

Appreciate the comments and sharing your experiences guys, ty. Let's keep it about the cycle and we can all laugh at the flimsy title later, when I got this sorted ;D

 

[DinoRamada]

get an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just in case... you don't have to run it (probably should depending on bf and sensativity), but you don't want to need it and not have it...

 

[DinoRamada]

also just drop the tbol and run the prop alone... the short ester kicks in pretty quick.

 

[crazyfmike]

Test
Deca
dbol or drol

Low Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as possible for most E2 without sides. (Estro is VERY anabolic).

Whole eggs, beef, pasta, beans, ice cream and pizza.

 

[SquadLeader]

Get an AI.

 

[shyguy87]

Test
Deca
dbol or drol

Low Aromatase inhibitor (AI) as possible for most E2 without sides. (Estro is VERY anabolic).

Whole eggs, beef, pasta, beans, ice cream and pizza.

Get an AI.

Adex vs aromasin during cycle? From what I read I am leaning towards aromasin. At what dosages for a beginner and this setup? They're ridiculously overpriced where I live, and very hard to get (sold out, reserved and what not)

 

[RISE]

I think a lot of people on here are seeing the "ultimate winter bulk" and dismissing that this is his first cycle.

Shy, you are not ready for the ultimate winter bulk, but I see what you are saying. As someone else said, I'd stick with a longer ester for the test, test E is the best IMO. Also 8 weeks for test is nothing, bump it to 12 wks 250 mg twice a wk. As for the Tbol, again 4 wks is not very long imo for a steroid that releases slow moderate gains. I personally would save the Tbol for your next cycle. If you really know how to utilize the kitchen, a simple cycle of test E will do just fine for your winter bulk.

Also get an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) not Nolva for your estro control while on cycle. Save the Nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) and grab a vial of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as well to add to your post cycle therapy (pct).

 

[shyguy87]

I think a lot of people on here are seeing the "ultimate winter bulk" and dismissing that this is his first cycle.

Shy, you are not ready for the ultimate winter bulk, but I see what you are saying. As someone else said, I'd stick with a longer ester for the test, test E is the best IMO. Also 8 weeks for test is nothing, bump it to 12 wks 250 mg twice a wk. As for the Tbol, again 4 wks is not very long imo for a steroid that releases slow moderate gains. I personally would save the Tbol for your next cycle. If you really know how to utilize the kitchen, a simple cycle of test E will do just fine for your winter bulk.

Also get an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) not Nolva for your estro control while on cycle. Save the Nolva for PCT and grab a vial of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as well to add to your PCT.

Ty for the reply.

I might be able to get my hands on some Aromasin, hopefully.

What dosage and duration are we looking at for the aro, based on my stats and the cycle?
12.5mg EOD sound okay? Or is that too much/not needed?
It's really expensive so I don't want to buy huge amounts over what I need in the first place anyway.

 

[BEASTMUSCLE]

Adex vs aromasin during cycle? From what I read I am leaning towards aromasin. At what dosages for a beginner and this setup? They're ridiculously overpriced where I live, and very hard to get (sold out, reserved and what not)

I would use Arimidex start off at .50mg EOD and see how it goes.

 

[shyguy87]

I would use Arimidex start off at .50mg EOD and see how it goes.

Any specific reason? (No questions are stupid someone once told me)

The reason I'm leaning towards aromasin is that they (aromasin and arimidex) are equally expensive here, thus making me favor (from what I've read, this is why I appreciate your comments based on experience!) aromasin due to it not canceling nolva (like dex) if I was to continue the use of the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) into and to the end of post cycle therapy (pct). Am I wrong?

Please don't take any of my questions to your comments negatively, it's not that I doubt your experience or knowledge - it's just hard to figure out what to believe with all the information there is on said subjects. That's all!

 

[shyguy87]

Self bump AND double post (tbf, the previous post is old now tho!) oh my lawdy!
I'm still not 100% convinced in terms of PCT. After learning both A's and B's about it, it becomes even harder to choose.

the CONS for Aromasin (i was wrong in my last post about equal pricing) will cost me a FORTUNE to run throughout the cycle and all the way to the end of PCT due to having to dose ED because of the relatively "short" halflife. Correct me if I'm wrong there please.
But the PROS are obviously that it's the "prefered" choice as it can be run through cycle and into post cycle therapy (pct), not competing against the nolva like adex would.

SO that brings me over to Arimidex. With the longer half life it can be dosed EOD which effectively cuts the price in more than half of what it would be with aromasin. And I would only dose it through cycle, not into PCT... Meaning I can spend the rest of the "budget" on CLOMID, assisting the PCT. I could probably even get some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) too, then.

Now inb4 "can't afford gear then don't bother" - because I can and I will, I just want some more posts and comments to back up my choices. TY bros!