Glutamine - how much to take?

YellowJacket said:
I agree with the intestinal health, but ask yourself and answer honestly, how many supplement companies use that as a marketing tool? Id venture to say none.

I've seen supplements that were specifically for intestinal wall health that had large amounts of glutamine in them, but you're right when you say that the big bodybuilding supplement companies do not market it that way at all. In all seriousness...there are very few supplements that will make a real difference. Whey, fish oil, and creatine can, but aside from that most supplements don't do much. You'll see much better results from getting your diet or training right than any supplement.
 
No i dont have any english written studies to the subject, and i dont really get all of the words youre writing eather :)
I have read studies for it likewise have i read studies against it.

As with every possible supplement out there there will always be studies for and against, its not so much a matter of wich you belive in but more in what works on one self.

Ive read studies saying Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) isnt good for muscle buildning also... but who believes that?
 
To each his own, if you think it works for you, cant argue that, althought I still think its placebo :)
 
mofo king said:
i love glutamine, its extremely effective for overcoming muscle soreness and boosting the immune system, booyah

Umm yea.... then you obviously dont understand the mechanisms of soreness. Soreness post workout is a result of reactive oxygen species (ROS), to reduce this, one would need an anti-oxidant of sorts, I apologize, but glutamine is not one of these, so your theory one reducing soreness is void. Please dont throw in your 2 cents unless you have a physiological clue as to what youre talking about.
 
yellowjacket,

Is it somehow possible that glutamine can free up antioxidants so that it can be used for muscle repair instead of something else? Or anything like that?
 
Frosty said:
yellowjacket,

Is it somehow possible that glutamine can free up antioxidants so that it can be used for muscle repair instead of something else? Or anything like that?

The only association I know without resorting to medline or my texts is glutamine being involved in the formation of glutathione in the liver, which is one of the more important internal anti-oxidants. But, with that being said, how much exogenous glutamine goes into the formation of glutathione? Im guessing since 75-80% of supplemented glutamine is converted to glucose, not a lot. Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid for a reason..... but theres a huge difference between our body's supply of glutamine (which is produced by our body's) and the glutamine you buy from the store. The digestion process strips most of supplemented glutamine down, rendering it useless.

You make a very good question and to be very honest, Im not 100% positive about this, although I think the aforementioned ramblings is fairly accurate, this is something Im going to look into....
 
Firefighter said:
How about glutamine peptides guys.

There's not much of a difference, other than the dipeptide, which allows for better solubility in liquids. Both are useless to supplement with, IMO.
 
Again, showing the lack of effects glutamine has on the immune system....

1: J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):115-25. Related Articles, Links

Exercise, nutrition and immune function.

Gleeson M, Nieman DC, Pedersen BK.

School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough LE11 3TU, UK. m.gleeson@lboro.ac.uk

Strenuous bouts of prolonged exercise and heavy training are associated with depressed immune cell function. Furthermore, inadequate or inappropriate nutrition can compound the negative influence of heavy exertion on immunocompetence. Dietary deficiencies of protein and specific micronutrients have long been associated with immune dysfunction. An adequate intake of iron, zinc and vitamins A, E, B6 and B12 is particularly important for the maintenance of immune function, but excess intakes of some micronutrients can also impair immune function and have other adverse effects on health. Immune system depression has also been associated with an excess intake of fat. To maintain immune function, athletes should eat a well-balanced diet sufficient to meet their energy requirements. An athlete exercising in a carbohydrate-depleted state experiences larger increases in circulating stress hormones and a greater perturbation of several immune function indices. Conversely, consuming 30-60 g carbohydrate x h(-1) during sustained intensive exercise attenuates rises in stress hormones such as cortisol and appears to limit the degree of exercise-induced immune depression. Convincing evidence that so-called 'immune-boosting' supplements, including high doses of antioxidant vitamins, glutamine, zinc, probiotics and Echinacea, prevent exercise-induced immune impairment is currently lacking.

Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function.

Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Kristensen JH, Boza J, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, 2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the possible role of glutamine in exercise-induced impairment of lymphocyte function. Ten male athletes participated in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover study. Each athlete performed bicycle exercise for 2 h at 75% of maximum O(2) consumption on 2 separate days. Glutamine or placebo supplements were given orally during and up to 2 h postexercise. The trial induced postexercise neutrocytosis that lasted at least 2 h. The total lymphocyte count increased by the end of exercise due to increase of both CD3(+)TCR alpha beta(+) and CD3(+)TCR gamma delta(+) T cells as well as CD3(-)CD16(+)CD56(+) natural killer (NK) cells. Concentrations of CD8(+) and CD4(+) T cells lacking CD28 and CD95 on their surface increased more than those of cells expressing these receptors. Within the CD4(+) cells, only CD45RA(-) memory cells, but not CD45RA(+) naive cells, increased in response to exercise. Most lymphocyte subpopulations decreased 2 h after exercise. Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose. Neutrocytosis was less pronounced in the glutamine-supplemented group, but it is unlikely that this finding is of any clinical significance. This study does not support the idea that glutamine plays a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immune changes.
 
Firefighter said:
If you start to say that studies matter more than real world results, you are going to sound a lot like Bobo.

Emperical data versus scientific feedback is debatable. I believe harmony between the two is our best bet, but when one or the other is not avaliable or one or the other is inaccute, science will always prevail. I say this because most scientific abstracts, peer review journals are controlled studies done on several (sometimes upwards of 200+ people). These results are pulled together and analyzed, as opposed to one guy getting on a message board and saying "glutamine is great for alleviating muscle soreness". Now, without science, how many people would believe glutamine really alleviates muscle sorness? Probably a good amount. But it was proved by science and by physiology that there's a very slim chance glutamine has any effect at all on muscle soreness. Without this science, supplement marketing would be out of control. Without science, a company could claim glutamine is the key to hyperplasia. Obviously science dispells this, but without the science, there would be no regulation in the supplement industry, as many dishonest claims as there are now, imagine it without science.

I will believe the results of 200+ people in a controlled enviroment over some random newbie who says glutamine cures his delayed onset muscle soreness......
 
Tyhat is foolish. I am sure there are over 200 people on the boards who speak highly of glutamine or peptides. A lot of those studies and "cases" are a joke. And you know it. I have been training for over a decade I can definately tell a difference when I am not taking it. Especially on my immune system.
 
Firefighter said:
Tyhat is foolish. I am sure there are over 200 people on the boards who speak highly of glutamine or peptides. A lot of those studies and "cases" are a joke. And you know it. I have been training for over a decade I can definately tell a difference when I am not taking it. Especially on my immune system.


Then please round these people up and bring them to this thread. The only remaining glutamine believers are the newbies who buy into the supplement company hype.

If these studies are a joke, please demonstrate how they are a joke, pick them apart and prove them useless. A little less talk, a little more action.

Glutamine serves no purpose to the immune system, all studies aside, physiologically speaking, when you look at glutamine's action on the body and its tissues, there isnt a valid link between exogenous glutamine and increase immune function, thats simple, freshman level, physiology. Maybe common knowledge isnt so common.
 
Yellowjacket,

While scientific studies are good, I do sometimes like to hold back on making a conclusion because of how complex the body is. A study can only cover so much. I'm interested in the glutathione thing, though.

And if I'm not mistaken, a lot of the glutamine doesn't get past the gut wall, BUT, endogenous glutamine that is normally used for the gut wall can then be used for other things. Is this correct?
 
Frosty said:
Yellowjacket,

While scientific studies are good, I do sometimes like to hold back on making a conclusion because of how complex the body is. A study can only cover so much. I'm interested in the glutathione thing, though.

I did a lot of undergrad work with N-acetyl Cysteine, so Ill gather what I have on glutathione and post its relationship to glutamine in the morning.

And if I'm not mistaken, a lot of the glutamine doesn't get past the gut wall, BUT, endogenous glutamine that is normally used for the gut wall can then be used for other things. Is this correct?


Another valid question. To answer this, one would have to know the amount of glutamine that goes into supplying the gut wall and there's a myriad of variables to consider. On that note, Ill get back to this tomorrow as Im a tired bee and have to be up exceptionally early. Night gentlemen, thanks for the brain stimulation.
 
YellowJacket said:


I will believe the results of 200+ people in a controlled enviroment over some random newbie who says glutamine cures his delayed onset muscle soreness......

there has been more than the random newbie argue this point with you, which is why you have these studies to copy and paste from your harddrive, they prove nothing... perhaps if you started to workout, and included glutamine in your supplement program, you may find out that the paper that your precious studies are published on is worth more than the actual studies themselves. there are those who live by experience, and there are those that preach theory, which one are you? get out there and start hitting the gym, it may also do wonders for your insecurity issues.
 
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