HCG PCT! Help needed!

[KingValentino]

First cycle:

Weeks 1 - 7 Primobolan (700mgs per week)
Test Prop (350mgs per week)

Weeks 7-10 Primobolan (700 per week)
Lixus Rip Blend (Test Acetate, Tren Acetate and Masteron)


Got Nolva and Clomid, this is first cycle. Need to know how much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to use and the amounts for first cycle? Some people have said 5000iu each week for 3 weeks... But this seems like loads for my first cycle? Don't want to overdo it and desensitise my leydig cells.

 

[KingValentino]

sorry, the rip blend is dosed at 225mgs per ml (75 test ace, 75 tren ace, 75 masteron) and I do 2ml ED.

 

[glubgawd]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/595482-standard-pcts.html

 

[ChrisWho?]

Wow, thats quite a cycle for a first timer. Is your cycle started already? Or is it nearing the end towards PCT? This is just so I know how to go about the HCG.

 

[ryansm]

Wow, thats quite a cycle for a first timer. Is your cycle started already? Or is it nearing the end towards PCT? This is just so I know how to go about the HCG.

Good question

 

[ryansm]

Here is a helful article on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
HCG unraveled

 

[KingValentino]

2 weeks out roughly!

 

[KingValentino]

from end that is

 

[KingValentino]

Wow, thats quite a cycle for a first timer. Is your cycle started already? Or is it nearing the end towards PCT? This is just so I know how to go about the HCG.

Yeah tbh, if you get the best results first cycle I thought may as well go for it. Added compound by compound to watch for side effects though, kept letrozole/arimidex on hand at all times etc.

Got Clenbuterol and T3 to add in for the last few weeks to get real nice and ripped.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Here is a helful article on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
HCG unraveled

"Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG."

Could please prove this point with a study on humans?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

"Recap -

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 250iu every 4 day starting 14 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels. This will initiate a strong LH and FSH surge from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn't begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system"

and for the recap, why would you suggest less than 500iu's a week during a cycle, when you posted a study that states 700iu a week was enough?????

Also why on earth would anyone ever stop their Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2 whole weeks before SERM treatment? it does not take nearly that long for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to clear your system, that defeats the entire purpose of running it on cycle. Also by stopping that early, your not allowing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to stimuate GNRH, therefore there will be no material to make the testosterone out of. So with that being said would it really matter how much endogenous LH and FSH your body was sending out?

As a matter of fact if you go through your references you will see that with the biphasic pattern that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) displays, the intial surge in serum T levels is much stronger than the second. With that being said that would tell me the absolute most time I would need off of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be 6 days.

explaination?

 

[Primordial Performance]

and for the recap, why would you suggest less than 500iu's a week during a cycle, when you posted a study that states 700iu a week was enough?????

Because daily dosing is not need. Testicular sensitivity is maintained for about 2 weeks, so if you dose E4D that is perfect to maintain function, while maximizing sensitivity.

Also why on earth would anyone ever stop their Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2 whole weeks before SERM treatment? it does not take nearly that long for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to clear your system, that defeats the entire purpose of running it on cycle.

The purpose of running it during the cycle is to maintain sensitivity only. Getting hCG well out of the system allows the testes 1-2 weeks to re-sensitize again. The half-life of hCG is about 2-3 days.

Also by stopping that early, your not allowing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to stimuate GNRH, therefore there will be no material to make the testosterone out of. So with that being said would it really matter how much endogenous LH and FSH your body was sending out?

Im not sure of your question here. hCG inhibits GNRH, which is one of the main reasons I dont advocate its use during post cycle therapy (pct). During post cycle therapy (pct), you want to get off the hCG and rely on your body's own LH & FSH. LH & FSH wont be released until you discontinue hCG.

As a matter of fact if you go through your references you will see that with the biphasic pattern that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) displays, the intial surge in serum T levels is much stronger than the second. With that being said that would tell me the absolute most time I would need off of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be 6 days.

explaination?

This is good thinking. You potentially could do hCG shots every 6 days during the cycle, as opposed to every 4 days like I recommend. E4D is the dose I chose between a theoretical "everyday" or "every 14 days" dosing pattern.

Considering the half-life of hCG, I would still recommend dropping it about 14 days before the steroids clear the system. This would give your body about 7-10 days to be completely off hCG and thus time to re-sensitize to LH & FSH stimulation which would restart once the steroids clear the body.

-Eric

 

[Primordial Performance]

"Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG."

Could please prove this point with a study on humans?

Im sure I could find a few studies on rats if I searched and maybe a couple studies on humans if I searched for a couple more hours.

But you really dont need a study for this. Look at what happens clinically. Ask any HRT patient or doc what happens to T levels after 500-1000iu given EOD. Testes stop responding after so many weeks and T levels drop.

-Eric

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Im sure I could find a few studies on rats if I searched and maybe a couple studies on humans if I searched for a couple more hours.

But you really dont need a study for this. Look at what happens clinically. Ask any HRT patient or doc what happens to T levels after 500-1000iu given EOD. Testes stop responding after so many weeks and T levels drop.

-Eric

This is totally incorrect. Im sorry Eric but it couldnt be further from the truth. You will find some studies on rats, although you wil not find 1 single study backing up Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) desensitization clinically, not 1.

It does not happen its bro-lore myth. The only time it will ever actually happen is if Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is dosed higher than 5,00 iu's at a time.

If you would like to disagree with thats fine, all I can say is PROVE IT.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Because daily dosing is not need. Testicular sensitivity is maintained for about 2 weeks, so if you dose E4D that is perfect to maintain function, while maximizing sensitivity.

I was not questioning the timing of the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) protocol, just wondering why you would think less than 500iu a week would actually do much of anything.

The purpose of running it during the cycle is to maintain sensitivity only. Getting hCG well out of the system allows the testes 1-2 weeks to re-sensitize again. The half-life of hCG is about 2-3 days..

This would only make sense if Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) desensitization actually existed in reasonable doses.

Im not sure of your question here. hCG inhibits GNRH, which is one of the main reasons I dont advocate its use during post cycle therapy (pct). During post cycle therapy (pct), you want to get off the hCG and rely on your body's own LH & FSH. LH & FSH wont be released until you discontinue hCG.

How exactly does Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) inhibit GNRH? Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulates the pituitary, in turn stimulating GNRHR, which is the receptor for GNRH.

Also the point im trying to make is that taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the time you are waiting to start your SERM is very important because at this time that same direct stimulation will provide the material the testicles need to make testosterone. By not taking it during this time you are allowing down regulation of that effect, since the suppress AAS in your system will be be suppressing the pituitary. You are also allowig your testicels to be suppressed by the still roaming AAS, when you worked so hard to keep them alive the entire cycle. Im sorry but it does not make any sense to me at all. Stoping Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 4 days before SERM treatment should be plenty of time.

I like PP I think you have great products. Especially Pre-max and Sustain Alpha. I think these can be a great addition to any post cycle therapy (pct). I just dont agree with this Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) protocol thats all.

 

[KingValentino]

yeh can someone actually help me.

Im doing Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at the end of the cycle.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/595482-standard-pcts.html

 

[KingValentino]

I read, was very informative.

Problem is, when running Primobolan, Test Acetate, Materon and Tren - its nearly impossible for me to get the timing right.

Someone else recommended one 5000iu shot of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on monday, and one on friday. Another has said 1,000 IU EOD for 8 days.

Whats ur opinion?

I have 7mls left of the Test Ace/Tren and Masteron blend.

I have 7 mls Primobolan.

I have an idea but I need some help organising this.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you need to run your test past the other compounds........how are you going to do that if all you have is a test/tren blend? the cycle is weird, thats why post cycle therapy (pct) is so hard.


primo should be an enanthate ester. this is the longest estered compound you are running. how many days after n enanthate ester do we start SERM?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Whats ur opinion? .

dude my opinion is laid out very clearly in that sticky right? if anyone gives advice different than what is in the sticky do you think i would agree with it?

your making this waaaaaay harder than it has to be.