hcg question??

needsize

Community Veteran
Does using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin ( Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ) during a cycle keep sperm production going, or does it just stop the testicles from shrinking. I ask as I am running a long cycle and using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin ( Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ) 2x weekly all the way through, and am hoping to get my wife pregnant at some point
 
Don't know, but I was offered clomid by my Dr, if I still wanted to have children. Now this is when I was put on HRT.

JohnnyB
 
No Human Chorionic Gonadotropin ( Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ) will not keep sperm production going. Proviron has a positive effect on sperm production, but I dont know if it holds water while on AAS.
 
clomid also helps with sperm production, might want to try throwing some into the middle of your cycle along with the proviron.
 
Yeah, I have heard Proviron will help but why not spend a couple of $ on a sperm count? Then you will know for sure what is going on.
 
HCG alone can sometimes maintain spermatogenesis... but you can expect a major decrease of your sperm count since your FSH will be lowered by AS...

Proviron,arimidex & clomid won't help while you're on, but FSH or HMG will.
You can just use Clomid post cycle, or FSH (HMG) if you want to do it fast.
 
arim does something like increases "sperm mutability" or something; i've read that several times before, so it HAS to be true LOL
 
slobberknocker said:
arim does something like increases "sperm mutability" or something; i've read that several times before, so it HAS to be true LOL

SERMs & aromatase inhibitors can be used in treatment of female and male infertilities, but they will NOT increase gonadotropins while you're on cycle.
 
Effect of test on LH/FSH:


Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.

MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.

Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic-anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

-----------------------------------

Evidence that follicle-stimulating hormone is necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis in man:


J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1986 Jun;62(6):1184-92 Related Articles, Links


Chronic human chorionic gonadotropin administration in normal men: evidence that follicle-stimulating hormone is necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis in man.

Matsumoto AM, Karpas AE, Bremner WJ.

The role of FSH in the maintenance of spermatogenesis in man is poorly understood. To determine whether normal serum levels of FSH are necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis, we first studied the effect on sperm production of selective FSH deficiency induced by chronic administration of hCG in normal men. Then, we determined the effect of FSH replacement in some of these men. After a 3-month control period, eight normal men (aged 30-39 yr) received 5000 IU hCG, im, twice weekly for 7 months. Then while continuing the same dosage of hCG, subjects simultaneously received 200 mg testosterone enanthate (T), im, weekly for an additional 6 months. hCG administration alone resulted in partial suppression of the mean sperm concentration from 88 +/- 24 (+/-SEM) million/ml during the control period to 22 +/- 7 million/ml during the last 4 months of hCG treatment (P less than 0.001 compared to control values). With the addition of T to hCG, sperm counts remained suppressed to the same degree. Except for one man who became azoospermic while receiving hCG plus T, sperm motilities and morphologies remained normal in all subjects throughout the entire study. During both the hCG alone and hCG plus T periods, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and urinary FSH levels were comparable to those in prepubertal children and hypogonadotropic hypogonadal adults. We replaced FSH activity in four of the eight men in whom prolonged selective FSH deficiency and partial suppression of sperm production were induced by hCG administration. Immediately after the period of hCG plus T administration, T was stopped in four men who continued to receive hCG alone (5000 IU, im, twice weekly) for 3 months. Then, while continuing the same dosage of hCG, these men received 100 IU human FSH, sc, daily (n = 2) or 75 IU human menopausal gonadotropin, sc, daily (n = 2) for 5-8 months. During the second period of hCG administration alone, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and sperm concentrations were suppressed (34 +/- 13 million/ml) compared to the control values for these four men (125 +/- 39 million/ml; P less than 0.001). With the addition of FSH to hCG, FSH levels increased (213 +/- 72 ng/ml) and sperm concentrations rose significantly, reaching a mean of 103 +/- 30 million/ml (P less than 0.03 compared to hCG alone...


---------------------------


Eur J Endocrinol 2002 Nov;147(5):617-24 Related Articles, Links


Maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic hypogonadal men with human chorionic gonadotropin alone.

Depenbusch M, von Eckardstein S, Simoni M, Nieschlag E.

Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University, Domagkstr. 11, Munster D-48149, Germany.

OBJECTIVE: It is generally accepted that both gonadotropins LH and FSH are necessary for initiation and maintenance of spermatogenesis. We investigated the relative importance of FSH for the maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic men. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: 13 patients with gonadotropin deficiency due to idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH), Kallmann syndrome or pituitary insufficiency were analyzed retrospectively. They had been treated with gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) (n=1) or human chorionic gonadotropin/human menopausal gonadotropin (hCG/hMG) (n=12) for induction of spermatogenesis. After successful induction of spermatogenesis they were treated with hCG alone for maintenance of secondary sex characteristics and in order to check whether sperm production could be maintained by hCG alone. Serum LH, FSH and testosterone levels, semen parameters and testicular Volume were determined every three to six Months. RESULTS: After spermatogenesis had been successfully induced by treatment with GnRH or hCG/hMG, hCG treatment alone continued for 3-24 Months. After 12 Months under hCG alone, sperm counts decreased gradually but remained present in all patients except one who became azoospermic. Testicular Volume decreased only slightly and reached 87% of the Volume achieved with hCG/hMG. During treatment with hCG alone, FSH and LH levels were suppressed to below the detection limit of the assay. CONCLUSION: Once spermatogenesis is induced in patients with secondary hypogonadism by GnRH or hCG/hMG treatment, it can be maintained in most of the patients qualitatively by hCG alone, in the absence of FSH, for extended periods. However, the decreasing sperm counts indicate that FSH is essential for maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis.
 
!

Does anyone believe or disbelieve if Nolvadex really can restore test production like Clomid? I know this has been debated forever, and WAR96 claims that it can perform that function but still, this is debated constantly but Clomid does suck as far as mood side effects for me (and skin).

HMG seems near impossible to find without spending a fortune!
 
Re: !

Mudge said:
Does anyone believe or disbelieve if Nolvadex really can restore test production like Clomid? I know this has been debated forever, and WAR96 claims that it can perform that function but still, this is debated constantly but Clomid does suck as far as mood side effects for me (and skin).

HMG seems near impossible to find without spending a fortune!


Yes it can.
HMG is LH + FSH, and alone wouldn't be a good choice...
 
BTW, from "An Uncontrolled Clinical Trial for Treatment of
Androgen Induced Hypogonadism" by Michael C. Scally, M.D. And Andrew L. Hodge, M.S. :

"It was discovered that although both clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen met with some success, when combined together they achieved a more significant increase in gonadotropin production."
 
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Excellent info, I was wondering (even though I have read it suggested) if Nolva would fight the Clomid.

HMG would not be used alone in my case if I could get it, it would supplement the HCG... but I suppose I will have to stick with what I can find without breaking the bank :) Thanks for the data!
 
HCG (or HMG) shouldn't be used without SERMs like tamoxifen or clomid because they only act on one component of the HPTA (testicles) and do nothing to stimulate your own LH (they suppress it)...
 
Yep, but since Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is incomplete I was hoping HCG, HMG and Nolva was possible, but I will go HCG/Nolva/Clomid since thats whats out there, despite being one of those clomid blues people - as well as it hitting my skin like dbol does.
 
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