Help with prepping igf???

[weavy88]

So I'm going to try igf here soon, and wanted to go the .6 acetic acid route for better stability. Luckily, I found research cem site that sells sterile .6 aa so I won't have to make my own (planet peptides, if anyone has ever heard of them.) my question is, how do I prepare the shot? I keep hearing people say to backload with bac water but not entirely sure what they mean. Do I reconstitute the igf in just the AA and then backload with bac water on a per shot basis? Or am I supposed to reconstitute the igf with both? Thanks

 

[jozifp103]

Dilute the IGF-1 with just the AA. Make it whatever concentration you decide. When you are ready to inject, draw out your dosage, then draw out a bit of BAC water from a BAC vial. You can backload, but I find that to be time consuming and just annoying overall. Yes you will be putting the pin through 2 stoppers which will dull it a bit, but never bothered me much. The BAC dilution is just to help dilute the AA when injecting to reduce the sting.

 

[weavy88]

Thanks much appreciated

 

[juced_porkchop]

DONT USE AA! its a %*#ing stupid myth that soem RC companies also fell into due to demand. WATERLESS AA (which would hurt and likely cause damage to tissue) has been used in some "tube" research.... it wont prolong life and may actually make it worse to use a 0.6% aa solution...
use Bac water, not AA, not 0.6% AA, not 0.4% AA. Just bac water.
i could go on and on about this topic but im burnt out on it over years of saying it...
its bullshit.
at one point i also tuted it but i did my own research and talked to some actual chemists and... its bull shit i assure you and any RC place selling it also juts shows me they are not dong their own research or know enough about these things as they should.

" Glacial acetic acid is a name for water-free (anhydrous) acetic acid. Similar to the German name Eisessig (ice-vinegar), the name comes from the ice-like crystals that form slightly below room temperature at 16.6 °C (61.9 °F) (the presence of 0.1% water lowers its melting point by 0.2 °C).[14] "


show me ANY study using it on animal or human... anystudy... you wont find it... MAYBE the test tube one...
get bac water. use in 4 weeks, if too fast, although i dont like freezing peps after mixed is still prefill slin pins and freeze over using AA.

 

[weavy88]

I hope you're right, it would be much more convenient to just use bac water

 

[Moppy1]

Did your get your IGF-1 from a peptide synthesis company? If so, throw it in the trash. IGF-1 is a complex protein with 3 internal disulfide linkages, that can only occur when produced from a recombinant source, and then that organism (bacteria or yeast) has to be specifically instructed with the correct eukaryotic enzymes for this disulfide bond formation.

Here is the structure of IGF-1
structure.html

 

[Moppy1]

There are really only 3 companies world wide that made real recombinant IGF-1 and I seriously doubt any one here obtained it from these companies. There is also no evidence that the Chinese can produce this either, it is way more complicated than making recombinant HGH. And 10x the expense per gram of protein.

 

[weavy88]

Some people say this, while many many more swear to its effectiveness. What makes you so sure

 

[Moppy1]

Just providing information on the known biology of IGF-1. Everyone can decide for themselves. Scientifically it is undisputed that IGF-1 is only active when in the proper folded confirmation, and this cannot be achieved synthetically. Insulin and HGH are the same, and they each require a biologic or recombinant source to be active. Recombinant IGF-1 is extremely expensive, 10x that of HGH, cause it is much harder to make. Nothing secret here whatsoever, everyone in the scientific field that works on therapeutic proteins knows that IGF-1 will not be active unless it is generated recombinantly, and even then by the properly engineered bacteria or yeast. Usually only smaller peptides will work when generated synthetically (chemical synthesizers), such as MT-2, etc. But if you guys are convinced it works for you, have at it!!!!!

 

[Moppy1]

The US Army also uses IGF-1 on its soldiers, and they know that most sources of it do not work, except one, which is the source that prepares the recombinant formulation best and to exacting standards from bacteria (e. coli). Read the attachments as well (J&A document). Pretty cool.....

https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=24614ecf49e0c27bf6812a188917e8ea&tab=core&_cview=0

Sorry for geeking out on you guys, but knowledge is power....

 

[Moppy1]

Actually, this is pretty interesting.....I am posting a paragraph from the US ARMY attachment on their description about obtaining real IGF-1, and how difficult it is.....(I am also blocking out the name of the company they use).


5. Reason for Authority Cited: In accordance with FAR 6.302***8208;2(b), an unusual and
compelling urgency precludes full and open competition and the delay in award of the
contract would result in serious injury to the Government. If the Government cannot
limit the sources, USAMRICD cannot accomplish its mission, discover and develop
medical products and knowledge solutions against chemical and biochemical threats
through research, education, and training, and consultation. The IGF***8208;1 from XXXXXXX Bio
is purified to greater than 98% by proprietary chromatographic methods; purity is
determined by RP***8208;HPLC and SDS***8208;PAGE. Competing products are of less purity. Samples
of IGF we have tried from other sources have not performed as well as the XXXXXX Bio
product. In addition, IGF***8208;1 from other sources in as much as 20 times as expensive. The
IGF***8208;1 is being used for a research project at USAMRICD. IGF is injected twice daily in an
animal model in research designed to develop countermeasures against intoxication by
botulinum neurotoxin, which is a recognized threat agent for military and civilian personnel.
The project supports research for the Defense Threat Reduction Agency
(DTRA) which has milestones that must be met over the next several months. The
project involves use of IGF***8208;1 and there is no alternative compound for performing the
work other than IGF***8208;1. There are no other aspects of this project that can be performed
without this compound. The stock of IGF on hand will be completely expended by 5 July
2015, and the research will necessarily halt until additional quantities of IGF can be
obtained. The result will be that milestones will not be met and mission failure will
result.

 

[weavy88]

interesting....why doesn't the army just give its soldiers testosterone instead?

 

[anzel]

interesting....why doesn't the army just give its soldiers testosterone instead?

They are trying to develop a defense against a particular threat from a neurotoxin, test is some good shit but it aint that good! Lol

 

[anzel]

So Moppy, I agree with you 100%

Just as a little experiment I inquired from a research company to buy their recombinant IGF1..... they shot me down so hard I still feel the lump! They wanted to know what kind of research I was doing and who I worked for etc. etc.

You just cant get this stuff. And everyone saying they are seeing results are seeing it from the AAS they are on or something. Or the placebo effect.

 

[weavy88]

So Moppy, I agree with you 100%

Just as a little experiment I inquired from a research company to buy their recombinant IGF1..... they shot me down so hard I still feel the lump! They wanted to know what kind of research I was doing and who I worked for etc. etc.

You just cant get this stuff. And everyone saying they are seeing results are seeing it from the AAS they are on or something. Or the placebo effect.

how unfortunate, guess i'll go with growth

 

[Moppy1]

So Moppy, I agree with you 100%

Just as a little experiment I inquired from a research company to buy their recombinant IGF1..... they shot me down so hard I still feel the lump! They wanted to know what kind of research I was doing and who I worked for etc. etc.

You just cant get this stuff. And everyone saying they are seeing results are seeing it from the AAS they are on or something. Or the placebo effect.

My guess is placebo effect. But certainly everyone is probably on other stuff as well, so really hard to know for sure where the gains are coming from.

 

[juced_porkchop]

There are really only 3 companies world wide that made real recombinant IGF-1 and I seriously doubt any one here obtained it from these companies. There is also no evidence that the Chinese can produce this either, it is way more complicated than making recombinant HGH. And 10x the expense per gram of protein.

its not hard,,, its just cheaper not to do so. RUI has DNA recombinant peptides for example. i do agree most places have the bonded ones. but its not that hard to make or get. any basic synthesizer can make it, but time and expense on top of patents ( for some) open up doors to alot of crappy peptides out there.

I made a thread on it a while back too > http://www.steroidology.com/forum/p...uld-recombinant-dna-source-not-must-read.html

 

[juced_porkchop]

Some people say this, while many many more swear to its effectiveness. What makes you so sure

some peptides are ok to use the other method. but the hgh and igf ones and most others in that class should be DNA recom for best effect/quality in research

 

[juced_porkchop]

Just providing information on the known biology of IGF-1. Everyone can decide for themselves. Scientifically it is undisputed that IGF-1 is only active when in the proper folded confirmation, and this cannot be achieved synthetically. Insulin and HGH are the same, and they each require a biologic or recombinant source to be active. Recombinant IGF-1 is extremely expensive, 10x that of HGH, cause it is much harder to make. Nothing secret here whatsoever, everyone in the scientific field that works on therapeutic proteins knows that IGF-1 will not be active unless it is generated recombinantly, and even then by the properly engineered bacteria or yeast. Usually only smaller peptides will work when generated synthetically (chemical synthesizers), such as MT-2, etc. But if you guys are convinced it works for you, have at it!!!!!

i agree with last statment, but the igf1 is EASIER to make than hGH. its broken down from HGH, has a shorter sequence and less work to make. IMO

 

[JimiThing]

Your def fine using Bac Water for IGF, without a doubt. If I recall the concentration of AA they used in the study people use to justify it as a necessity for reconstituting IGF would literally be almost uninjectable it would be so painful.
As far as the recombinant synthesized peptides- the topic has been covered here before. There are certain peps that are essentially useless unless they are manufactured in that manner. Thats why it was good to see rui openly stating their IGF was recombianantly synthesized and properly folded. This also explained to me their price point compared to other rc companies as well.