Thank you guys for all your help and answers. I do have a lot of questions for my Endo I have my next appt Dec 12. I know one of the big things he has talked to me about is prostate cancer that high test raises the chances of getting it. I have also talked to Chip once about this I really wish his Doctor took Insurance.
How many mg's are you injecting?
- Thread starter JOWS6
- Start date
Study suggests another look at testosterone-prostate cancer link
Testosterone and Prostate Cancer | NDNR
Studies Indicating That Testosterone Does Not Cause CANCER
You might find the above articles interesting. Of course, there are still plenty of articles claiming T therapy increases prostate cancer risk, although many of those articles seem light on scientific data.
I would suggest you buy yourself a copy of
Testosterone For Life
by Abraham Morgentaler, M.D.
Associate Clinical Professor, Harvard Med. School
This book will answer many questions you have and there is an entire chapter dedicated to the myth that T therapy increases risk of prostate cancer.
Dr. Morgentaler, besides being a Harvard professor, has 30 years experience in this particular field and over 20 years actually treating men with low T.
After you read this book, assuming you do, you will find that many of the comments and responses on here from those with moderate to extensive Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) experience match up quite well with Dr. Morgantaler's experience.
cjw2021
Pro Bodybuilder
I know of a guy with natty test levels of around 1600. 800 is the minimum performance testosterone level. Anything below that and don't expect to work out and be able to get it up in the same day. More isn't necessarily better. A prostate cancer doc in Los Angeles by the name of Dr. Bob keeps most of his patients T levels between 2-4 thousand, and those are prostate cancer patients after they have done a triple androgen blockade.
As far me, I am a big fan of test prop, because it releases faster, which is more like real testosterone produced in the body. My dose is like 100mg EOD, or 300mg a week. But by day 3 after an inject my levels are plumetted, so the half life of t prop in my body is 1 day.
There are many objective cases of patients responding better to one ester over another. Some guys claim to bloat heavily on enanthate over cypionate. Some guys on here can inject 400mg of test a week and their endo's are wondering why their T levels are still only several hundred. All of this is dependent on enzyme levels in the body and whatnot. To say that everyone needs 200mg a week or less is ridiculous, though the vast majority will retain normal levels in the 200mg a week range. Personally my dopaminergic system does not get stimulated on anything but propionate. Before I had primary testicle failure I felt far more energy on my natural testosterone production than I did on any dose of cypionate or enanthate. Propionate makes me feel normal.
What doctors do not understand is that when you are naturally producing testosterone, there is always feedback in the endocrine system. So if you work out and run low on T, your testicles will blast however much testosterone is needed to recover. On testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) that's not the case when you have a finite amount of hormone in your body releasing at a finite speed. This is totally the opposite of what goes on in natural production where the body can dynamically speed up hormone production AS NEEDED. It's just like growth hormone and insulin which are released after strenuous activity. This does not happen in a diabetic or hypopituitary patient with no GH signaling. So that's in a nutshell why I like prop - the speed of release IMO is always going to be as fast, or as close as possible to the speed the body could produce it at.
A study on rats showed faster releasing testosterone (suspension) was able to stimulate sex in rats far more often for a longer time than an even higher dose of oil based esterfied testosterone. Longer esters also stimulate aromatase enzyme (estrogen converting enzyme) more in general.
As far me, I am a big fan of test prop, because it releases faster, which is more like real testosterone produced in the body. My dose is like 100mg EOD, or 300mg a week. But by day 3 after an inject my levels are plumetted, so the half life of t prop in my body is 1 day.
There are many objective cases of patients responding better to one ester over another. Some guys claim to bloat heavily on enanthate over cypionate. Some guys on here can inject 400mg of test a week and their endo's are wondering why their T levels are still only several hundred. All of this is dependent on enzyme levels in the body and whatnot. To say that everyone needs 200mg a week or less is ridiculous, though the vast majority will retain normal levels in the 200mg a week range. Personally my dopaminergic system does not get stimulated on anything but propionate. Before I had primary testicle failure I felt far more energy on my natural testosterone production than I did on any dose of cypionate or enanthate. Propionate makes me feel normal.
What doctors do not understand is that when you are naturally producing testosterone, there is always feedback in the endocrine system. So if you work out and run low on T, your testicles will blast however much testosterone is needed to recover. On testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) that's not the case when you have a finite amount of hormone in your body releasing at a finite speed. This is totally the opposite of what goes on in natural production where the body can dynamically speed up hormone production AS NEEDED. It's just like growth hormone and insulin which are released after strenuous activity. This does not happen in a diabetic or hypopituitary patient with no GH signaling. So that's in a nutshell why I like prop - the speed of release IMO is always going to be as fast, or as close as possible to the speed the body could produce it at.
A study on rats showed faster releasing testosterone (suspension) was able to stimulate sex in rats far more often for a longer time than an even higher dose of oil based esterfied testosterone. Longer esters also stimulate aromatase enzyme (estrogen converting enzyme) more in general.
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Glad you posted these. I was about launch into the discussion that most studies have indicated no correlation between normal or high test levels and prostrate issue. In fact there is a growing body of research that indicates the possibility of a correlation in the opposite diction - low test individuals are more prone to prostate issues.
I'm taking 18mg cyp every day IM, 100hcg evey day subq. Never felt better. And I've done every 7, 5, 3 days.... As much as I've read and researched Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), this is what i've come up with that works for me. And Estrogen sides subsided almost completely. I take 6mg aromasin every 3 days or so.
Damn straight bro!
So, for the OP:
Two data points:
Me: 1030 test / 29 e2, 250mg t cyp e4d. (just moved to t prop)
My dad is almost exactly the same on 200mg t cyp e4d.
Top end of the range is now 1100.
Motiv8ed
Iron Clanger
Yep. 300mgs a week gives me a total estrogen level of 221. I'm waiting anxiously for my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to arrive from Chip.
200 mg E5D put me at 278 total Estrogen.
Yup - day 3 late in the day. I'm sure it's higher at some point, but I don't notice any ups and downs or issues - all other vitals are great (most better than pre-HRT). In fact, I don't really care if my test is higher since I feel great and it's working for me.
Hell, my last blood test with my GP just before joining Maximus I was using 400mg t cyp e7d. I injected on a Saturday, had blood taken on Monday morning before 10AM and I was in the 800s. This is when I knew my doc hit his limits since he had no idea how to get me to my goal in the 900s.
Effectively, I'm doing 37mg more than pre-Maximus, but with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and better injection frequency. That put me in the optimal zone! I don't really convert much to estrogen though - I've crashed it a couple times on low adex doses and my estrogen only went too high when I cranked HCG way up.
Who knows, maybe it's all sitting in one big oil depot and will release simultaneously someday
o wait were talkin bout gear.... 
Bullseye Forever
Prince of Darkness
my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose is 300mg/week,pinned twice/week at 150mg on sunday and thursday
CHIP WADOWSKI
New member
i'm a prop lover. I aromatize very heavily. Prop allows me to get dialed in much easier. I usually stick with 100mg eod. I haven't had labs done in a while. Need to do so sometime in the near future.
wolfman010
New member
Chip, do you do your prop in the shoulder? And do you mix with B12 or anything?
CHIP WADOWSKI
New member
shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip. Always rotating sites. I used to mix it with b-12, but not anymore. I guess i'm fortunate. I don't ever get any site injection pain or reactions like some other guys speak of.
When I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) last year I was on 200 mg testosterone enanthate every 12 days and would have preferred every 10 days at least. Felt lean and fresh.
When on extended vacation abroad had to use orals of undecanoate at 2X 40g a day...and really felt nothing. Was crap, imo.
Now I've moved and can only get sustanon 250 or deca for trt. Opted for sustanon e250 at 1 injection every 2 weeks and not happy at all on it...and will cycle with it instread and then try to get sorted with a supply of enanthate again.
I loved how enanthate make me look and feel, above all.
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