HRT Exit Strategy...

[cashout]

As I have recently past my 2 year anniversary of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I have spent some time reflecting on what I have accomplished with this program.
After extensive research, I turned to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) a possible solution to my declining test levels in 2009. At the time Istarted Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), my test level was 579 ng/dl. Not low by most standards but about 30% off my normal levels of 900+ ng/dl that I had maintain for some 15 years.
The symptoms of my declining test were as follows...
1. Frequent overtraining. I had reached a point for the first time in my bodybuilding lifestyle where about every 3 months, I would find myself overtrained. In 20 years daily committed train, this had never happened before.
2. Persistent and chronic minor illness. I had begun a steady process of developing repetitive colds and flu-like illnesses that were a function of #1 above.
3. Loss of muscle mass. Because of #1 & especially #2 above, I had drop about nearly 10 pounds of quality muscle.
4. Lack of metal focus. Again, I had never experienced this in my adult life in any capacity. Focus and will are the only things that I have ever possessed in abundance.

In my 2 years on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I can say that I have remedied all of the above symptoms. So, I would declare my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) a smashing success.
However, there is still one facet of my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) that I have yet to assess my EXIT STRATEGY.
Like everything business related Ive owned and been involved in, I always have an exit strategy in the event that it is ever needed.
So, at this juncture, I am considering testing my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Exit Strategy to see if will indeed produce the results that I expect.
I am considering this not as a means to quit Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) but to reassure myself that I have covered all my bases and can proceed forward on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) for the indefinite future knowing that if there is ever an issue down the road, I have already operationalize and tested my exit strategy successfully.
I started constructing my exit strategy based on some of my own previous research and personal experiences from my days using AAS to supplement by competitive bodybuilding. Also, Ive spent a tremendous amount of time and energy in the past 4 weeks discussing my exit strategy with several very knowledgeable physicians.
So, here is the plan that we have constructed and I will follow


Week HCG Clomid Nolva Letro
1 M/W/F/Su 2000 1.25 M/Th
2 T/Th/Sa 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 M/W/F 2000 1.25 M/Th
3 Sat/Sun 100 40 1.25 M/Th
4 Every Day 100 40 1.25 M/Th
5 100 40 1.25 M/Th
6 100 40 1.25 M/Th
7 40 1.25 M/Th
8 40 1.25 M/Th
9 1.25 M/Th
10 1.25 M/Th

I will take my last 100 mg shot of test cyp on the Monday one week before I start my exit. During the week before exiting, I will also have my blood work done for comparative purposes.
My blood work will be done again on the Friday of the 3rd week towards the end of the HCG treatments, again when I discontinue the clomid treatments, and finally, two weeks after I complete the Nolva treatments.
So, I hope to kick this exit strategy off on the Monday Dec 5th.
I will chronicle the results here for those who are interested.

 

[Misc]

So you say you are going to have it as a just in case but then your going thru with in on the 5th of December?

what changed? or is it just a test then your gonna jump back on HRT?

 

[Cobra Strike]

Ya misc I believe that is what he is saying. It's just a trialfor now to see if it will work.

This will be an interesting read cash....looking forward to following it!

 

[cashout]

Yes - I want to know that I've got an ace in the hole in the event I need to come of of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in the future for some reason.

My intention is to test this plan and then continue my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) with the knowledge that I can come off of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) should it ever be necessary.

 

[TR2838]

Cashout, would you mind explaining your rationale for the dosages and usage of each compound.. I really hope this works out for you.. I always have the same fear that someday-God forbid- I might be forced off HRT.. Your success w/ this would put my mind at ease.. Keep us posted

 

[JKB]

Wow. This are to be a very interesting thread. Definately keep us posted Cashout. I am exited to see how it turns out.

 

[ecdysone]

In my 2 years on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I can say that I have remedied all of the above symptoms. So, I would declare my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) a smashing success.

So what part of the above sentence am I missing? testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) worked for you, therefore, if you stop it, things will return as they were before. OTOH, if the last 2 years were simply a 'long cycle' then, yes, a post cycle therapy (pct) is in order.

Not being argumentative, but honestly, just pondering your thinking.

 

[HC1]

He is doing an experiment so that he will set his mind at ease about coming off of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in case he ever had to, he's not staying off permanently I don't think. He just wants to see if the post cycle therapy (pct) would work for someone thats been cruising on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) for a while, he is not cycling.

 

[Misc]

Yes - I want to know that I've got an ace in the hole in the event I need to come of of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in the future for some reason.

My intention is to test this plan and then continue my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) with the knowledge that I can come off of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) should it ever be necessary.

Should be interesting

Subbed.

 

[cashout]

So what part of the above sentence am I missing? testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) worked for you, therefore, if you stop it, things will return as they were before. OTOH, if the last 2 years were simply a 'long cycle' then, yes, a PCT is in order.

Not being argumentative, but honestly, just pondering your thinking.

My Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) is not a cycle. I haven't cycled in almost 15 years.

As stated in the original post and again subsequently in other posts, I am doing this to test the plan for effectiveness in the event that at some time in the future I am required to discontinue HRT.

After this exercise, I plan to continue my HRT.

 

[cjw2021]

Well I know a doc that has been on it 20 years. I don't see why you would have to stop, since the body needs testosterone to function. Sub par levels are not healthy by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing I could think of is if you developed prostate cancer (which men with lower t levels actually have higher odds of getting). And in that case the doc I've read of that treats that treats them with a triple androgen blockade while removing the cancer and then keeps all their t levels in the several thousands shortly thereafter lol. I believe he goes by dr. bob.

I predict you will feel like shit and realize there is no substitute for testosterone. It sounds like you just want to see if your nuts are capable of producing more T with hcg, which isn't bad to know.

 

[cashout]

Cashout, would you mind explaining your rationale for the dosages and usage of each compound.. I really hope this works out for you.. I always have the same fear that someday-God forbid- I might be forced off HRT.. Your success w/ this would put my mind at ease.. Keep us posted

Sure. I'll keep this brief but there has been a tremendous amount of time spent researching this plan. If you have any specific questions, I'm glad to answer.

HCG: After using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for the beginning of my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I discontinued its use for a couple of reasons that have been discussed in other threads. Nevertheless, from what I have read, discussed with physicians (namely my urologists), and experienced during my bodybuilding days, a significant application of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is required to stimulate the Lydig cells to induce test production after extend suppression. Hence, much of what I've seen in the published literature suggests 2000+ iu per application for between 16-21 days with the treatments applied on an EOD basis.

Clomid/Nolv: Several studies have indicated the combination of the two drugs has a synergistic effect in the stimulation process. The amounts in the studies all vary so I have erred in this regard on the high side of what is in the literature.

Letro: The is not much in the literature regarding the use of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in a restart process however, I know from my years of personal experience that I have a strong propensity to aromatize test vigorously. This was a really problem after my cycles in the past when I used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). Therefore, I've opted to include an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in this program to prohibit any excessive aromatization.

Much of what I've read is the work by Dr. Micheal Scally. His protocol is similar to what I am doing here. Moreover, I used a very similar type of PCT for my cycles 15 years ago sans the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) since they didn't exist back then.

So, in short, I believe I've built this program with as much of an insight into the circular HPTA mechanism as is currently available to me and my support team.

I'll keep everyone informed. As I wrote earlier, this is really about peace of mind in knowing that I have a workable contingency plan in the event I need to discontinue Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) for any reason in the future.

 

[cashout]

Well I know a doc that has been on it 20 years. I don't see why you would have to stop, since the body needs testosterone to function. Sub par levels are not healthy by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing I could think of is if you developed prostate cancer (which men with lower t levels actually have higher odds of getting). And in that case the doc I've read of that treats that treats them with a triple androgen blockade while removing the cancer and then keeps all their t levels in the several thousands shortly thereafter lol. I believe he goes by dr. bob.

I predict you will feel like shit and realize there is no substitute for testosterone. It sounds like you just want to see if your nuts are capable of producing more T with hcg, which isn't bad to know.

I can think of several conditions that could possible preclude one's use of exogenous androgen.

My vet was diagnosed three weeks ago with Hashimoto's and he was immediately told to discontinue his HRT. So, yes, this has been on my mind as a result.

While I certainly don't anticipate anything like that in my future, I would like to know that if I have to cease and desist I have a plan for that already prepared.

It is just that simple.

 

[babyface58]

Wow man I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. I came off Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) about a year ago and I've felt like shit ever since. Weak, mental cloud, no motivation, no libido, etc.

I did a PCT similar to yours except I didn't use clomid.

I've got an appointment with Dr. Eugene Shippen at the end of the month to see if he can help me with a restart... Or if I'm a good candidate for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy. He's got me on Clomid right now (For the "Clomid Test") to see if my testes are still working.

 

[TR2838]

Well I know a doc that has been on it 20 years. I don't see why you would have to stop, since the body needs testosterone to function. Sub par levels are not healthy by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing I could think of is if you developed prostate cancer (which men with lower t levels actually have higher odds of getting). And in that case the doc I've read of that treats that treats them with a triple androgen blockade while removing the cancer and then keeps all their t levels in the several thousands shortly thereafter lol. I believe he goes by dr. bob.

I predict you will feel like shit and realize
there is no substitute for testosterone. It sounds like you just want to see if your nuts
are capable of producing more T with hcg, which isn't bad to know.

CJW your very young and not yet seen alot of curveballs that get thrown at you in life. I'm not old, but, the older I get, the more I realize how unpredictable life can be and I'm happy that Cashout is doing this experiment so I don't have to

 

[cjw2021]

CJW your very young and not yet seen alot of curveballs that get thrown at you in life. I'm not old, but, the older I get, the more I realize how unpredictable life can be and I'm happy that Cashout is doing this experiment so I don't have to

All he is doing is seeing how much his nuts respond to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). In my case my nuts are dead so no matter how much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) I take my test levels will still be in the gutter. I find it interesting how in the past men's T levels didn't really decline that much with age. Now it is an epidemic.

 

[conklcl]

Cashout
I tried to look in the past post but can not find anything why did you stop taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) with your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ?

 

[cashout]

All he is doing is seeing how much his nuts respond to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). In my case my nuts are dead so no matter how much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) I take my test levels will still be in the gutter. I find it interesting how in the past men's T levels didn't really decline that much with age. Now it is an epidemic.

CJW, your simplistic opinion notwithstanding, this exercise is far more complex than an assessment of how my "nuts respond to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). "

I could assess that facet of the HTPA without discontinuing my current HRT.

Through this exercise, I am attempting to evaluating the holistic function of my HTPA - both the positive and negative feedback mechanisms that control the pituitary and its production of LH, FSH, & TSH as well as the synergistic function of my thyroid and its production of T3/T4. Yes, part of that interrelated assessment will include my testis and their concurrent function in the process.

By the end of this exercise, I hope to ascertain not only a "restart" to these functions but to stabilize them into a known range of function.

This process is about establishing a program to exit Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) if I have to ever do so AND knowing what functional range I might find myself in should I have to implement the plan.

So, there is far more to this than how my "nuts respond to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). "

 

[cashout]

Cashout
I tried to look in the past post but can not find anything why did you stop taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) with your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) ?

For male contraceptive purposes.

I wanted to test the possibility that I would be in the 65% of males that become azoospermia on 200mg of test per week.

I am.

My wife and I have two happy healthy children and we have no desire for any more in the future.

If you are interested in having kids in the future, it is NOT a course of action I'd recommend to you.

 

[conklcl]

Cashout

I don't really understand your response I have 3 kids and I am 45 and don't want any more kids. So would taken Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) just be a waste for some one on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) if they don't want to have kids. Would just taking Test be all someone would need and maybe an AI?