I want to experiment with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) myself, temporarily.

[lineguy]

I want to experiment with TRT myself, temporarily.

Here's my questions:

1. What would be recommended for raising my test year-round (no cycling)? Something like 250mg Test E, injected once per week?

2. At what point should I also be taking things like Clomid, Aromasin, and Finasteride?

Here's the story:

I've read the countless posts by fans of Chip. I submitted the medical questionnaire on his site, and I'd absolutely love to work with him in the future.

The problem, is that I'm in really bad shape financially right now. I'm running delinquent on a couple accounts after losing my job, and my temporary work doesn't have anything for me until September. It's getting ugly.

I've struggled with depression, lack of motivation, and a just generally feeling like crap since I was a teenager (I'm now 25). It's had a massive negative impact on my life.

I recently saw a doctor, and she gave me SNRI's (Pristiq, supposedly a very good anti-depressant). They didn't help, so I told her I'd not like to continue.

I had my blood tested, and my total test is 336. She said she can't do any Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) until it's below 280.

Primarily, I want to feel better. To be honest, though, I want to get better results from my training also. I just don't feel like I'm ready to jump into cycling 500mg per week until I know how to feel better while not cycling.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[funkymonk]

Go to a different doctor, do not self-medicate. If she's really really persistent on the 280 level as her cutoff, then perhaps induce shutdown on your own?
However, the fact that she refuses to treat you based on a number rather than symptoms throws up TONS of red flags.

 

[BigHuge]

Trt isn't temporary and anyone on it will tel u they would rather be natural, sounds like u just need to be in a better place in ur life, and any drug, steroids included is not the answer, u should have probably tried experimenting with dosage change on ur anti depressants instead of stopping, or at least switch medication, even tho I don't believe in them, financially if ur behind on bills u don't need to spend money on steroids and all the extra costs that come with it, if ur TEMPORARY job has no work look for a full time one, and grow up and stop feeling sorry for yourself, people out there have had, and do have it worse than u, it's called being a man and accepting responsibility in your life instead of blaming everything else, those who depend on drugs to live everyday r weak, and only the strong survive.

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

Trt isn't temporary and anyone on it will tel u they would rather be natural, sounds like u just need to be in a better place in ur life, and any drug, steroids included is not the answer, u should have probably tried experimenting with dosage change on ur anti depressants instead of stopping, or at least switch medication, even tho I don't believe in them, financially if ur behind on bills u don't need to spend money on steroids and all the extra costs that come with it, if ur TEMPORARY job has no work look for a full time one, and grow up and stop feeling sorry for yourself, people out there have had, and do have it worse than u, it's called being a man and accepting responsibility in your life instead of blaming everything else, those who depend on drugs to live everyday r weak, and only the strong survive.

Bro... I'm sorry that I feel the need to chime in on this post, but I do. I/WE have all built this forum up as the foundation of a place to laugh, get help, Q & A, and make great friends. There is really no place in here to verbally beat the shit out of the guy when he's down. It's not how we roll over here. This guy IS obviously down, maybe not out, but definitely down. There's no reason to kick him and make him feel even shittier.

 

[BigHuge]

Cause he mentioned ur name? I'm not beating the shit out of him, I'm trying to tell him that drugs aren't the answer, he needs a better environment for his life, u feel like shit if u live like shit, thinking u need drugs, of any sort, to feel good is weak, think of it as a form of aggressive motivation, sink or swim, u want a new customer fine, but I been in bad places in my life, I don't believe in medication for depression, it's a state of mind, he's only 25, too young for Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), and Its not temporary, just needs a kick in the pants, man up and get a grip on life, did anyone give u ur business? Our did u work to build something successful for yourself? It takes a first step in a right direction, and his first step doesn't need to be drugs.

 

[lineguy]

Trt isn't temporary and anyone on it will tel u they would rather be natural

I don't mean I want to raise my test levels temporarily, I just mean that I want to do this until I can afford a guy like Chip.

sounds like u just need to be in a better place in ur life, and any drug, steroids included is not the answer, u should have probably tried experimenting with dosage change on ur anti depressants instead of stopping, or at least switch medication, even tho I don't believe in them, financially if ur behind on bills u don't need to spend money on steroids and all the extra costs that come with it, if ur TEMPORARY job has no work look for a full time one, and grow up and stop feeling sorry for yourself, people out there have had, and do have it worse than u, it's called being a man and accepting responsibility in your life instead of blaming everything else, those who depend on drugs to live everyday r weak, and only the strong survive.

I appreciate that you took the time to offer your advice, but I have to respectfully say that your comment is in no way helpful.

That's the kind of stuff that I always told myself, and it's why it's taken me so long to truly address this. It's been more than a decade now, so I think it's safe to say that it's simply not enough.

Not to be rude, but I'm going to use you as an example here.
I hope anyone else on here who is struggling with depression reads this:

Once you read enough articles and watch enough lectures from the most respected authorities in the world on depression, you will see that comments like this one from BigHuge are simply considered ignorant, incorrect, and extremely harmful because they stop people from getting the real help they need.

If you really want to know how to properly deal with depression, the current answer is generally to be prescribed an antidepressant as kind of a "band-aid", and follow through with counselling to help prevent you from simply falling back into the same pit you were in before.

Don't take advice from people who tell you to "be a man", or "get more sleep and exercise". Do yourself a huge favor and get real fucking help.

 

[lineguy]

Now if we could possibly move on with the conversation, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not looking to testosterone as a direct solution to my depression. I have my own plans to address that.

For some reason, guys who come in here with the attitude like "I want to feel awesome and get huge" are the ones who get the answers they are looking for.

Every time I see a post like mine, it gets a response like that from BigHuge. I don't know why that is, but it's a pain in the ass. Forget about my original post. Let's just say that I want to feel awesome and get huge.

 

[BigHuge]

Well if u wanna feel awesome and get huge then....seriously? Now I'm a lil irked because it's self pitying people like yourself who have this world over medicated, if it ain't restless leg syndrome, or work shift disorder, it's your whole life on face book. I've been thru a lot of shit my life, locked up from the ages of 17-24, both parents addicts, been shot a few times stabbed a few times, had open heart surgery, and an abundance of other shit I won't mention, have I been depressed? Yes. But you know what, there comes a point in everyone's life when u have a choice, whether it be at 8 yrs old or 25, u choose to make yourself who u are, shape yourself, I never blame anything on anyone other than myself, you know why cause I had a choice to make in every situation, and so do u, u don't got a job cause ur temporary work is off til september, so u blame that for not having the money to pay chip, which is why your so depressed and if only u could be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) u would be alright forever...right? Yeah until something else comes up that doesn't go your way, then its another quick fix you'll find, probably something off you tube, when what you really need to fix is the underlying issue, yourself, nothing is gonna make u happy until ur happy where u are in life.....and yes I don't believe in depression, I believe I'm being depressed at certain times and yes it can lead to an ask the time thing but because U let it, any u can always change that, and I hope everyone does read this.

 

[lineguy]

If anyone can address the questions I asked in my first post, that would be awesome. Until then, I'll just reiterate how ignorant people like BigHuge are and why it's important not to listen to them.

Now I'm a lil irked because it's self pitying people like yourself who have this world over medicated, if it ain't restless leg syndrome, or work shift disorder, it's your whole life on face book.

You shouldn't make assumptions as to what kind of person I am. Particularly because you aren't smart enough to do it accurately. Until I was prescribed the SNRI, I have never had another prescription medication except for pain killers and antibiotics that were given to me after common injuries that landed me in the emergency room. I never asked for any of it. I don't even take things like tylenol or benadryl except in rare cases. Also, I don't know what facebook has to do with this, but I don't use that either.

I've been thru a lot of shit my life, locked up from the ages of 17-24, both parents addicts, been shot a few times stabbed a few times, had open heart surgery, and an abundance of other shit I won't mention, have I been depressed? Yes. But you know what, there comes a point in everyone's life when u have a choice, whether it be at 8 yrs old or 25, u choose to make yourself who u are, shape yourself, I never blame anything on anyone other than myself, you know why cause I had a choice to make in every situation, and so do u

I can see why someone would want to shoot or stab you. You obviously don't understand what depression is. You should really read more about it. Having shitty things happen to you is not what major depression is about. Also, I don't know why you keep insisting that I'm assigning blame to anyone or anything. Stop making assumptions.

u don't got a job cause ur temporary work is off til september, so u blame that for not having the money to pay chip, which is why your so depressed and if only u could be on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) u would be alright forever...right?

Neither of these are correct, nor are they stated in any of my posts.

Yeah until something else comes up that doesn't go your way, then its another quick fix you'll find, probably something off you tube,

I'm not really into quick fixes, which I made clear already. Also, I think it's hilarious that you denounce "something off you tube" when you seem to think we should take advice from a moron like you on an internet forum about steroids. Apparently your little brain missed the irony there.

and yes I don't believe in depression, I believe I'm being depressed at certain times and yes it can lead to an ask the time thing but because U let it, any u can always change that, and I hope everyone does read this.

Thank you for saying that. The singular line "I don't believe in depression" is enough to show just how ignorant you are. What you have experienced sounds like it was probably more along the lines of mild depression. Those of us who suffer from what's called "major depression" don't have the luxury of getting better simply by adopting a different train of thought.

Do your research, man. Major depression is regarded as one of the most debilitating of all mental illnesses. Just think about that for a second, with other illnesses in mind for comparison such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Do you think that you are knowledgeable enough to advise people on this subject? Do you really think that you should be telling people what to do?

 

[MoparMuscle]

Don't self prescribe. If you don't qualify or can't afford Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). Look into holistic ways to raise test levels natty. They often work well.

 

[BigHuge]

My intelligence level is thru the roof, and yes I am assuming to know the type of person u are interesting how u didn't highlight my comment on u working full time, u can't afford testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) so u can afford to medicate yourself? Major depression? Is that self diagnosed or another doctor over willing to medicate a young man? If u feel ur depressed ur depressed, have u tried alerting u way of thought our your lifestyle? And if raising testosterone IS the key to ur happiness then maybe going to the gym and working out is worth a try, it is known to boost natural test levels, and there are other otc thing u may want to try. I remain firm on my opinion depression is a state of mind, and am excuse for people to wallow in self pity.

 

[lineguy]

My intelligence level is thru the roof

Maybe I won't get any answers here, but at least I have you to entertain me.



keep comin at me bro

 

[BigHuge]

I'm not coming at u, ur defensive because ur depressed and probably very socially awkward, post ur stats, other than that i'm done conversing with someone who puts themselves on a mentally equal playing field as a schizophrenic.

 

[MoparMuscle]

Honestly you should try the holistic method to increase. Changing diet to avoid certain foods, taking the correct natural supplements that support, eating organic meats, eliminating plastics / soy products, doing the write type and amount of exercise. My brother (who is 26) TOTALLY recovered from a 350 ish total test level to 700 range using this type of method, I know it was all setup though some kind of naturalist specialist but I'm not clear on what all was involved. It wont work for all guys but for many it might. The focus and discipline required to stay on the correct diet and exercise program could also potentially help with your depression issues (my low T of under 200 for the last 5 years prior to starting Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) never caused me any depression, just other;issues;, so I can not really relate to that part but I wish you the best)

 

[MoparMuscle]

Bighuge: you need to chill out dude

 

[lineguy]

I was under the impression that holistic methods were marginally effective, if at all. Do you know of anything specific that I should do more research on?

I lift weights 4-5 days per week and do cardio on most days. I work out because I want to be bigger, like most guys on these boards, not because I think it will cure my depression.

My diet is far from perfect, but it's probably close to most people on these boards. I don't eat junk food. I eat lots of fruits and vegetables, and lots of chicken and beef. I also drink a bunch of milk, because I'm what you call a "hard gainer" (having a hard time getting past 160 pounds at 5'6").

 

[MoparMuscle]

I don't know, apparently they do work for some. Never tried them myself

160 at 5'6" is decently big, I have a friend that's 170 at 6-7% BF and 5'5" and he looks HUGE.

 

[Pinner]

I'm not coming at u, ur defensive because ur depressed and probably very socially awkward, post ur stats, other than that i'm done conversing with someone who puts themselves on a mentally equal playing field as a schizophrenic.

So funny. That tells me all I need to know about Mr. BigHuge.

lineguy, you didn't need to post your stats. This is about getting your head straight, not about getting Big and Huge.

 

[BigHuge]

Don't care, feed into his mentality, thats ur prerogative, posting his stats wasn't an attempt at checking his size in order to denounce his dedication our ridicule, rather it was an attempt to see if was a typical social awkward man's stature, and I don't need to chill, I expressed my opinion ur entitled to ur own.

 

[cashout]

Lineguy, I'll give you my personal insights regarding HRT.

Before I do, understand that I am not a medical doctor and I know **nothing** about the conditions related to the depression which you mentioned.


I started my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) program a over a year ago at the age of 40 and I work with a urologist in my area.

My dosage is 200 mgs of Test Cyp 1X per week. That is sufficent to keep my Total Test numbers between 1000 - 1600 ng/dl. Now, that may be a higher range than many folks look to achive but that is the range I shoot for because my natural test levels from the time I was 18 years old until I was 36 were always near or slightly above 1000 ng/dl.

Some MDs may not feel comfortable with you in that range and you might not feel your best in that range.

The real answer to your first question is to adjust the test dosage to a point at which you feel your best.

To answer your second question, I started using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the very begin of my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). I know from past experience that my body aromatized Test to estrogen pretty easily. So, based on that my urologist and I decided to go with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) from the get go.

We started with Adex and I used that for the first year in differing dosages and in differing applications. At the end of the first year, I switched from Adex to Asin for the simple reason that I was having some trouble dialing in my E2 using the Adex. Long story short, I was getting too many spikes and troughs. My Asin application seems to have evened this so far.

If you are going on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I would consider looking at your initial bllod work to assess your E2 and make some determination of your baseline E2. That will help you guage potentially how much of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and how frequently you need it.

I don't know why you would need clomid on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT). I've not seen a reason yet. You might also consider Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to make sure you LH and FSH stay in a nice acceptable range and your testes stay full and "happy."

Now, you may need to work with adjusting your Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dosage and application over a few months. It took me that long to get things right.

Now, you mentioned finastride. That is something with which I have 17 years of personal experience. I started using it while Propecia was in Phase III clinical testing in 1994. I've used it without interruption ever since. Additionally, I've read ever one of the 244 published studies on the drug.

Depending on your genetic inclination to MPB, you may or may not need fina as part of your program. I can tell you, it is the only reason my hair still looks like I'm 20 years old.

Again, I have used 1.25 mgs per day. I get the 5 mg Generic Proscar and cut it into 4 pieces and take one piece per day.

The fact is not everyone is the same and what I or any other persons is doing may not be the best for you. There is a lot of fine tuning that goes into this. Even with all my personal experience it took me a while to get my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) locked in.

I'll also tell you that there are quite a few really good guys on here. It is a great support group and don't be a stranger. If you have questions...ask. Someone will help.