skullcrusher1
New member
Is 100mg the max per injection site? Could you inject a second 100mg another spot immediately?
I'm on 550mg sus right now. I'd rather take 6 sub-q shots per week than 2im shots.
Would this be OK to do?
Injecting supplemental doses of testosterone subcutaneously?
- Thread starter CenturionHRT
- Start date
Is 100mg the max per injection site? Could you inject a second 100mg another spot immediately?
I'm on 550mg sus right now. I'd rather take 6 sub-q shots per week than 2im shots.
Would this be OK to do?
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
interesting........
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CenturionHRT
New member
1: Saudi Med J. 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6.Links
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. alfutaisi@squ.edu.om
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report.
Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman. alfutaisi@squ.edu.om
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route.
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CenturionHRT
New member
How can you say that? What is your information to back up your theory? There are tons of testimonials online where some men feel much better doing it that way. Not to mention the study I sited clearly backs up the theory that there is less fluctuation in serum T levels.
Your comment is a joke to me sir, It is obvious you do not understand basic pharmacology of testosterone injections.
If anyone is going to laugh at the fact the bigger peaks and lower troughs cause more aromatization, therefore equaling more total E2 is talking out of their ass................
Im sorry that you do not understand why this could be beneficial to some, If your going to attack it though pleas bring some reasoning to the table or i will eat your random statements alive
CenturionHRT
New member
secondly if you think for a second that letting your E2 bounce all over the place will not squash your libido and give you mood swings of a menopausal female then you sir have been misinformed...............PERIOD.
Im sure Chip would have to agree with that, he has been preaching how important controlling E2 is since I have known him..................Im just looking for other ways to control E2 rather than using an AI...........so we can use less AI............less can be more young padiwon.
Nice try though...........it was a valiant effort.
Im sure Chip would have to agree with that, he has been preaching how important controlling E2 is since I have known him..................Im just looking for other ways to control E2 rather than using an AI...........so we can use less AI............less can be more young padiwon.
Nice try though...........it was a valiant effort.
CenturionHRT
New member
Guys need to understand this whole half-life thing is a bunch of bullshit. A half-life is simply an average, it is the average rate that the average male will metabolize a certain ester.
Some men depending on BF% and a host of other factors will metabolize medication at different rates. This includes testosterone and AI's. Not to mention that many factors play into the rate of aromatization, including hormonal balance within the body. This is what I have learned from Chip and some other guys that are very familiar with TRT. You have to find out what works for you...............
Some men depending on BF% and a host of other factors will metabolize medication at different rates. This includes testosterone and AI's. Not to mention that many factors play into the rate of aromatization, including hormonal balance within the body. This is what I have learned from Chip and some other guys that are very familiar with TRT. You have to find out what works for you...............
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babyface58
Doing the TRT thing
I love this thread, thanks for starting this, I'm learning a lot. I never thought you could do Sub-Q T shots...
Do you think I could get up around 800-900+ T levels using Sub-q shots E3D?
I'm doing 200mg/week... How do you measure the T in IU when using the insulin needle?
I'm imagining a couple HUGE benefits to doing Sub-Q vs. Injections...
1. Not a pain in the ass
2. No hormone imbalance-related side effects like acne, mood swings, etc.
I'm seriously considering trying this before I quit T... because right now my acne is out of control........
Do you think I could get up around 800-900+ T levels using Sub-q shots E3D?
I'm doing 200mg/week... How do you measure the T in IU when using the insulin needle?
I'm imagining a couple HUGE benefits to doing Sub-Q vs. Injections...
1. Not a pain in the ass
2. No hormone imbalance-related side effects like acne, mood swings, etc.
I'm seriously considering trying this before I quit T... because right now my acne is out of control........
CenturionHRT
New member
Well keep in mind in the study they only did 50mg injections. they were only doing 100mg a week and that kept them within range. sooooo...............
If you want to keep your T at 200mg a week maybe try 50mg EOD sub-q. this will give you 175mg a week. Keep in mind im just suggesting things you can try, I do not know for sure if it will be better. If this protocol does not work we can keep working on it til it is right for you, dont give up.
The reason im suggesting you do not go over 50mg per subQ shot is because sometimes a subQ inject can aromatize more quickly. I just had a patient that had this happen. He did 100mg shot and im starting to wonder if that is too much for a subQ shot to handle in the real world. Im sure the amount will be different for everyone. so i say start low.
to get a 50mg shot from 200mg/ml T we would need 1/4 ML. a insulin syringe is 1ml/cc total. it is measured in iu's- there are 100 ius in each 1ml on the slin pin. so i would draw back 25units.
have you had your blood test's done since starting therapy? if not we need to see what is going on in there............It is important that all new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients get bloods 6 weeks after commencing therapy.
If you want to keep your T at 200mg a week maybe try 50mg EOD sub-q. this will give you 175mg a week. Keep in mind im just suggesting things you can try, I do not know for sure if it will be better. If this protocol does not work we can keep working on it til it is right for you, dont give up.
The reason im suggesting you do not go over 50mg per subQ shot is because sometimes a subQ inject can aromatize more quickly. I just had a patient that had this happen. He did 100mg shot and im starting to wonder if that is too much for a subQ shot to handle in the real world. Im sure the amount will be different for everyone. so i say start low.
to get a 50mg shot from 200mg/ml T we would need 1/4 ML. a insulin syringe is 1ml/cc total. it is measured in iu's- there are 100 ius in each 1ml on the slin pin. so i would draw back 25units.
have you had your blood test's done since starting therapy? if not we need to see what is going on in there............It is important that all new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients get bloods 6 weeks after commencing therapy.
babyface58
Doing the TRT thing
Thanks for the help on the dosing.
Here are the stats from my last test a few months ago. Taken 4 days after my injection of 200mg. Test Cyp.
Total Testosterone: 1,203 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 334 pg/mL
Percent Free Testosterone: 2.78%
Total Estrogen: 232 pg/mL
Dihydrotestosterone: 58 ng/dl
Here are the stats from my last test a few months ago. Taken 4 days after my injection of 200mg. Test Cyp.
Total Testosterone: 1,203 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 334 pg/mL
Percent Free Testosterone: 2.78%
Total Estrogen: 232 pg/mL
Dihydrotestosterone: 58 ng/dl
CenturionHRT
New member
looks fine except for the estro obviously that is sky high. that is your acne problem. I imagine your T levels were well up around 1500 day after your shot and your body said what the fuck..............and it it did its thing........converting to estro.
I think using much smaller doses, hence not peaking T levels so high, there will be less estro conversion. With that being said we need to get a tight grip on estrogen ASAP. it takes some time for it to get completely out of control and it takes some time to get it back to normal as well.
how much and what Aromatase inhibitor (AI) are you taking?
I think using much smaller doses, hence not peaking T levels so high, there will be less estro conversion. With that being said we need to get a tight grip on estrogen ASAP. it takes some time for it to get completely out of control and it takes some time to get it back to normal as well.
how much and what Aromatase inhibitor (AI) are you taking?
CenturionHRT
New member
I see your sig now-was that the same dose of adex you were taking when you got those bloods?
babyface58
Doing the TRT thing
Yes I was taking Arimidex .5mg 3x a week which is what I saw was a common dose for people to be taking... Apparently it wasn't enough for me.
Do you think taking a higher dose (like 1mg. a day for 3 days after the shot) would be a good idea?
Either way I'm going to try this SubQ injection every 3 days and see where that puts me. I'll get blood tests in a couple weeks so I'll see where my T and E levels are at.
I just ordered some Aromatasin too so I might try your protocol of 12.5mg every day and drop the arimidex.
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CenturionHRT
New member
whatever Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you choose i would keep doses level. right now you are doing arimadex @ 1.5mg per week. I would double that dose and do .5mg ED. I would not switch AI's at this time.
If you must switch i would take 25mg ED of aromasin.
If you must switch i would take 25mg ED of aromasin.
I had my best results at every other day, sub Q.
Once in a while shooting into my thigh I would hit a nerve..yuck!
I would fill a weeks worth of needles at once, popping the top off and back filling with a large gauge needle, being very carefull to keep everything sterile.
I liked it because the 27 gauge needle simply does not hurt, in fact I wince checking my blood sugar more.
Once in a while shooting into my thigh I would hit a nerve..yuck!
I would fill a weeks worth of needles at once, popping the top off and back filling with a large gauge needle, being very carefull to keep everything sterile.
I liked it because the 27 gauge needle simply does not hurt, in fact I wince checking my blood sugar more.
ahem I have a question on that...I know old thread.
HOW DO YOU GET THE AIR BUBBLE OUT with those tiny needles
I have alpha pharma test from the pharmacy here. It's meant to be a very thin solution compared to other tests, so it should be easier.
I'm simply waisting all the test trying get the air bubble out. 23g works to get the bubble out but I think that's to big a needle for subcutan.
HOW DO YOU GET THE AIR BUBBLE OUT with those tiny needles
I have alpha pharma test from the pharmacy here. It's meant to be a very thin solution compared to other tests, so it should be easier.
I'm simply waisting all the test trying get the air bubble out. 23g works to get the bubble out but I think that's to big a needle for subcutan.
I had my best results at every other day, sub Q.
Once in a while shooting into my thigh I would hit a nerve..yuck!
I would fill a weeks worth of needles at once, popping the top off and back filling with a large gauge needle, being very carefull to keep everything sterile.
I liked it because the 27 gauge needle simply does not hurt, in fact I wince checking my blood sugar more.
How can you say that? What is your information to back up your theory? There are tons of testimonials online where some men feel much better doing it that way. Not to mention the study I sited clearly backs up the theory that there is less fluctuation in serum T levels.
Your comment is a joke to me sir, It is obvious you do not understand basic pharmacology of testosterone injections.
If anyone is going to laugh at the fact the bigger peaks and lower troughs cause more aromatization, therefore equaling more total E2 is talking out of their ass................
Im sorry that you do not understand why this could be beneficial to some, If your going to attack it though pleas bring some reasoning to the table or i will eat your random statements alive
I know of several people that have switched to Methyl B12 in a sub c form because of a more stable metabolazation of the medication. The fat seems to slow it down leaving them a more stable delivery system that IM. This might be the same with T.
I am speaking of people with Pernicious Anemia not a B12 shot for a boost. I IM both B12 and T. But I wouldn't mind going sub. And seeing the difference.
I'm currently doing 500mg test-e Every week with SUBQ. injections , I became worried reading this thread when I saw that my injections are being potentially wasted? Injecting procedure for me is filling up 2 insuline syringes 1cc each with 250mg test-e each , aim for me is Physical training and not HRT , can anyone tell me if my injections are getting wasted or if there is just an increased risk of estro sides?
I'm on week 3 now, feeling a bit water retention, greasy skin on face and strangely enough soooo little sides compared to week 3-4 with IM injections , I used to have monster erections, LOTS of water retention and itching nipples, night sweats with IM
anyone here that can fill me in a bit what's going on? Im a young guy of 26
EDIT:
I now realise Ive come to the TRT section but I hope you guys can overlook this one time that I'm on it for reasons other then TRT and help me out anyway, it's only logical that you guys will know more about this subject then on other sections as you do this for life hence are careful and wellread what you are doing to your bodies, compared to other bodybuilding sections where there is a lot of "bro-science" and guesswork going on.
I'm sure I will get a better answer from you guys relating this question of mine about SUBQ injections then anywhere else, I hope admin overlooks my mistake and lets the people here help me out
I'm on week 3 now, feeling a bit water retention, greasy skin on face and strangely enough soooo little sides compared to week 3-4 with IM injections , I used to have monster erections, LOTS of water retention and itching nipples, night sweats with IM
anyone here that can fill me in a bit what's going on? Im a young guy of 26
EDIT:
I now realise Ive come to the TRT section but I hope you guys can overlook this one time that I'm on it for reasons other then TRT and help me out anyway, it's only logical that you guys will know more about this subject then on other sections as you do this for life hence are careful and wellread what you are doing to your bodies, compared to other bodybuilding sections where there is a lot of "bro-science" and guesswork going on.
I'm sure I will get a better answer from you guys relating this question of mine about SUBQ injections then anywhere else, I hope admin overlooks my mistake and lets the people here help me out
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Jimstigator
New member
Are you injecting the same dose and frequency as before? Or are you injecting more often?
I ask because if I inject 20mg EOD for a total of about 70mg a week, my TT can near 800-900. If I inject 50mg twice a week, 100mg total per week, my TT is around 700-800. Both of those protocols keep my E2 around 30. More frequent subq injections definitely has some lower E benefits.
I ask because if I inject 20mg EOD for a total of about 70mg a week, my TT can near 800-900. If I inject 50mg twice a week, 100mg total per week, my TT is around 700-800. Both of those protocols keep my E2 around 30. More frequent subq injections definitely has some lower E benefits.
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