Just started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) -- looking for advice

[chronological]

Just started TRT -- looking for advice

I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) five weeks ago. I'm self-injecting Test. Cypionate every two weeks. My only two prior measurements - i.e. from before starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) -- were a 380 and a 420 (roughly -- I forget the precise numbers). I'm told those are within normal range, but are "low normal". My primary symptoms are obesity, lack of energy, and a decided lack of mental focus. Thus far we've been trying to hit the latter using ADD stimulants, to little effect. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a different approach to the same problem.

Here's what I've seen so far:

• Some time in 2010. (Pre-TRT). T level of around 380
• January 2012. (Pre-TRT). T level of around 420
• Thu Feb 16th: Dose 1 = 0.75cc (150mg) Testosterone Cypionate
• Tue Feb 21st: Blood Test for "peak" => 800+
• Sun Feb 26th: Dose 2 = 0.75cc
• Mon Feb 27th: Doc calls to discuss that peak level. Says that although it's good, he wants it higher than that because it's going to drop again. He's aiming for a peak of between 1000 and 1200. So he says to push up the dose from 0.75cc to 1.0cc.
• Sat Mar 10th: Blood test for "trough" => 170 (huh!?)
• Sun Mar 11th: Dose 3 = 1.0cc (200mg) (i.e. upped according to Doc's instruction on 27th)
• Tue Mar 13th: Doc calls to discuss the trough. Says not to worry about it for now, and instead we need to keep on working to get the peak up. I've to keep the dose at 1.0cc but to increase frequency from once every 14 days to once every 10 days. He says it may need to go as high as once every week.

So my next dose is now due in a week (i.e. day 11 after my most recent one). And then three days after that, we'll draw blood for another peak test.

Overall, as yet there are no subjective improvements in any of my symptoms. I don't feel any more (or less) focused/energetic/aggressive/mellow/horny And I can't deny I'm a tad concerned by that 170 trough level.

Anyone able to offer any input on this? Should I be seeing effects by now? Also, the doc has so far mentioned nothing about HCG or anything else. Is that a concern?

 

[chronological]

I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) five weeks ago. ...

I should maybe have added; I'm 47, 5'8", and about 290lbs.

 

[Packgus]

if you read thru this forum you will see that most do best on T shots every 5th day.
I think thats what you need to shoot for right now. Or at least every 7th day.

 

[adrian2401]

if you read thru this forum you will see that most do best on T shots every 5th day.
I think thats what you need to shoot for right now. Or at least every 7th day.

Just don't allow yourself to run out because you increased your pinning frequency.
Hopefully your Doc is liberal to allow you to do this.
You probably should be on an Aromatase Inhibitor...
HCG is important if you want to have babies or if you're concerned about keeping your nut sack full, i.e. not developing testicular atrophy.
A GREAT OTC Estrogen Blocker is some stuff called Formadrive by Nutraclipse. Check it out.
PM me if I can help you further.

 

[jmt2125]

I started at every 14 days and it was a roller coaster ride. I felt worse then before treatment. I'm now on every 7 and it is much better. I would definitely talk to your dr about getting you on 7 day schedule atleast.

 

[TR90125]

I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) five weeks ago. I'm self-injecting Test. Cypionate every two weeks. My only two prior measurements - i.e. from before starting testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) -- were a 380 and a 420 (roughly -- I forget the precise numbers). I'm told those are within normal range, but are "low normal". My primary symptoms are obesity, lack of energy, and a decided lack of mental focus. Thus far we've been trying to hit the latter using ADD stimulants, to little effect. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a different approach to the same problem.

Here's what I've seen so far:

• Some time in 2010. (Pre-TRT). T level of around 380
• January 2012. (Pre-TRT). T level of around 420
• Thu Feb 16th: Dose 1 = 0.75cc (150mg) Testosterone Cypionate
• Tue Feb 21st: Blood Test for "peak" => 800+
• Sun Feb 26th: Dose 2 = 0.75cc
• Mon Feb 27th: Doc calls to discuss that peak level. Says that although it's good, he wants it higher than that because it's going to drop again. He's aiming for a peak of between 1000 and 1200. So he says to push up the dose from 0.75cc to 1.0cc.
• Sat Mar 10th: Blood test for "trough" => 170 (huh!?)
• Sun Mar 11th: Dose 3 = 1.0cc (200mg) (i.e. upped according to Doc's instruction on 27th)
• Tue Mar 13th: Doc calls to discuss the trough. Says not to worry about it for now, and instead we need to keep on working to get the peak up. I've to keep the dose at 1.0cc but to increase frequency from once every 14 days to once every 10 days. He says it may need to go as high as once every week.

So my next dose is now due in a week (i.e. day 11 after my most recent one). And then three days after that, we'll draw blood for another peak test.

Overall, as yet there are no subjective improvements in any of my symptoms. I don't feel any more (or less) focused/energetic/aggressive/mellow/horny And I can't deny I'm a tad concerned by that 170 trough level.

Anyone able to offer any input on this? Should I be seeing effects by now? Also, the doc has so far mentioned nothing about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or anything else. Is that a concern?

Here's my .02

I have always tested the day my next injection was due and definitely worried about my trough, admittedly more than my peak.

Of the research I have done and the specialists with whom I have consulted, every 7 days is the minimum frequency I have seen. I started at E5D and have been injecting my test cypionate every 84 Hours for a long time now, stable as a you're gonna get.

My last blood test showed a t-level of 1110 with blood drawn aprox. 78 hours after previous injection and 6 hours before my next.

And yes, I would be worried about a trough of 170. For that matter, I'd be worried about a trough of 799.

Also, is your doctor testing anything else besides your test levels?

 

[Nordic11]

And yes, I would be worried about a trough of 170. For that matter, I'd be worried about a trough of 799.

why would you be worried about a trough of 799?

 

[chronological]

Thanks for the response. Was beginning to think everyone else was dead

Also, is your doctor testing anything else besides your test levels?

Probably, but we've only been talking about total T so far. I took shot 4 this morning -- 200mg (1.0cc). That's my first after having increased the frequency to once every 10 days, instead of once every 14.

We'll do a blood draw in three days and see what's going down.

 

[TR90125]

Thanks for the response. Was beginning to think everyone else was dead



Probably, but we've only been talking about total T so far. I took shot 4 this morning -- 200mg (1.0cc). That's my first after having increased the frequency to once every 10 days, instead of once every 14.

We'll do a blood draw in three days and see what's going down.

There's a lot of variables to any protocol, but round these parts you will not find many folks injecting any less frequent than E5D.

 

[Frustrated1]

Not many more than e7d either. Everybody comes around eventually. EOD to E7D. E5D is the furthest that I would personally want to go. If I wanted or needed to lower my peaks I would go shorter. I'm pretty happy right now at E5D. going shorter than e4d and you would need more than a couple of injection sites.

 

[chronological]

Not many more than e7d either. Everybody comes around eventually. EOD to E7D. E5D is the furthest that I would personally want to go. If I wanted or needed to lower my peaks I would go shorter. I'm pretty happy right now at E5D. going shorter than e4d and you would need more than a couple of injection sites.

ExD meaning "Every x days" (And if x=O then "Every Other Day")?

 

[Frustrated1]

Yes ExD where x = 2 through 7.

 

[TR90125]

why would you be worried about a trough of 799?

The discussion surrounding what is considered low T in and out of the medical community is literally limitless.

Based on my personal experience and research on low T, I would prefer to keep my total T no lower than 800 at the trough.

Also, if your doctor wants to see your peak higher and isn't worried about the low, you may be getting set up for a huge swing in T levels. I try my best to keep the distance from my low to my high as tight as possible to avoid wild fluctuations in levels.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) specialists/clinics would not want to see their patients drop below 700-800 at any point.

Another way to look at it is if you are being treated for low T, how many days a month do you want to T level to be medically low? My answer is zero.

 

[Nordic11]

The discussion surrounding what is considered low T in and out of the medical community is literally limitless.

Based on my personal experience and research on low T, I would prefer to keep my total T no lower than 800 at the trough.

Also, if your doctor wants to see your peak higher and isn't worried about the low, you may be getting set up for a huge swing in T levels. I try my best to keep the distance from my low to my high as tight as possible to avoid wild fluctuations in levels.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) specialists/clinics would not want to see their patients drop below 700-800 at any point.

Another way to look at it is if you are being treated for low T, how many days a month do you want to T level to be medically low? My answer is zero.

I get what you are saying and don't disagree. Although, a trough of 799 is far from "medically low".

 

[TR90125]

I get what you are saying and don't disagree. Although, a trough of 799 is far from "medically low".

True, and 174 is way below medically low and what is technically medically low is way too low anyway and will likely continue to be redefined numerous times over the next decade and beyond.

The other thing to consider is how much fluctuation you are willing to or can tolerate. I do not know what you are using to define medically low, but I know I feel good running my T level around 1100. I would rather not have my peak be 1300 and my trough be 400. I can't really see any value in that, despite the fact that 400 might not be considered medically low.

These are basically just my opinions and all I have to back it up is the fact that I have felt really good for quite a while now on my current protocol and that doesn't mean someone else can't feel good or feel improved with lower T levels.