Liver Protection

[E-Swift25]

Wow you guy's are getting scientific. So what's the bottom line. Say for me what would you do, my next cycle is test enanthatate 750mg's weekly for 12 week's.
I was planning on just taking milk thistle and sawpalmetto for pancreas protection?

If you're just using the test, you won't need liver protection. Only oral (melylated/alkalated) steroids are broken down in the liver. It's always good to monitor liver values, so taking milk thistle wouldn't hurt. Your liver gets punishment from other sources mind you (pain meds, alcohol, serious beatings, etc...)

 

[onehugemofo]

If you're just using the test, you won't need liver protection. Only oral (melylated/alkalated) steroids are broken down in the liver. It's always good to monitor liver values, so taking milk thistle wouldn't hurt. Your liver gets punishment from other sources mind you (pain meds, alcohol, serious beatings, etc...)

Milk Thistle wouldnt hurt but it also wouldnt help, so why waste the money. Plus, the guy said he wants to protect his pancreas while on test?? Did he mean liver?

I take coffee and lecithin 5g day for my liver. Last time I checked my liver values were normal while taking turinabol at the same time.

 

[E-Swift25]

Milk Thistle wouldnt hurt but it also wouldnt help, so why waste the money....

If you read my post, I stated why. Your liver values can be elevated from other sources besides oral steroids.

 

[onehugemofo]

If you read my post, I stated why. Your liver values can be elevated from other sources besides oral steroids.

Tylenol is a good one. I'm assuming it's as hard as 17aa oral steroids based on statements read. A lot of people still believe Milk T still works when there is no study to back up the data.

 

[Phantasm]

Milk Thistle and liver tabs

 

[roccodart440]

Doggy - How much milk thistle was your bro taking ED?

One thing to remember is that milk thistle doesn't do shit. It's the silymarin in it that does and milk thisle is typicly 85% stadardized silyymarin so even if you take the max recomended dose on the bottle your not taking enough.

1000mg silmarin ED is what I have read and found to be an effective dose. I didn't get my blood taken when I used it but I felt better and I noticed that if I had any alcohol to drink the after effects would be far, far less than before I was taking the milk thistle.

 

[ludakris9]

milk thistle

 

[Phantasm]

Too much acetaminophen (Plus with 17aa) can Kill!

Tylenol is a good one. I'm assuming it's as hard as 17aa oral steroids based on statements read. A lot of people still believe Milk T still works when there is no study to back up the data.

With cold season approaching, Dr. Guy Neff has a warning for people who automatically reach for a few popular over-the-counter remedies: Too much of a good thing can cost you your liver.
Neff, the medical director of liver transplantation at University Hospital, says consumers need to pay more attention to how much acetaminophen, or Tylenol, they take every day.
"The amount of acetaminophen that someone can take easily adds up," he says.
How much is too much?
Five grams of acetaminophen a day for a week "will destroy a liver," Neff says. And it's not hard to reach that level.
An example: Most of us have probably downed a couple of tablets of a multi-symptom cold remedy, then chased it with a couple of Tylenol.
Not many of us do the math. One Tylenol Extra Strength caplet has 500 milligrams of acetaminophen. The label advises taking a maximum of eight caplets a day - that's four grams of acetaminophen right there, and some people tend to take three or four caplets at a time.
Add in a sinus headache or cold remedy that contains acetaminophen, and it's easy to get another gram or two in the daily total.
All medications are broken down, or metabolized, in the liver. One of the metabolites of acetaminophen is toxic to the liver. In high amounts, it can destroy the liver, Neff says.
Add echinacea to the arsenal to combat a cold "and right there you've got two agents that may help with the infection but ultimately might be toxic to the liver."
Maximum dose
Healthy people who eat well should take a maximum of two to three grams of acetaminophen daily, Neff says.
People with liver disease shouldn't take acetaminophen at all. An acetaminophen overdose or overuse can cause liver damage severe enough to require a transplant, he says. It can also be fatal.
Acetaminophen isn't the only culprit for liver damage. Statins, commonly prescribed to reduce cholesterol levels, can cause liver damage, as can other prescription drugs.
So can several herbal remedies - including chaparral tea, kava kava and saw palmetto, along with echinacea - if dosage recommendations aren't followed, Neff says.


*(Now consider that some take popular narcotic pain killers with acetaminophen combined in the pain medications to keep working out thru pain or minor injury; i.e. Lortabs, Hydro, Vicodin etc.... this added with 17-aa can be trouble)* Aspirin and Aspirin based narcotics at the same levels stated above will do the same... but to the Kidneys rather than the liver!*

 

[ulter]

It's too bad that so many people are saying Milk Thistle since it does absolutely nothing to protect your liver from chemical toxins. Tyler Liver Detox is what most doctors sell to their patients with elevated liver enzymes, more than any other product. Tyler WILL protect your liver from chemical toxins.

 

[thejpman]

want to scamm or what ,

 

[rookie03]

where can u get tylers from?

 

[Superior1]

Since your original question is Liver Protection Milk Thistle is a decent general liver protectant. However Steroids (C17) and say tylonel have different mechanisms in which they stress the liver. Steroids causes cholestasis, and tylenol, once glutathione is depleted, forms a free radical that causes the damage. NAC is not effective against Cholestasis, but is for glutathione depletion.

As for Milk Thistle I've found no great studies for oral Milk Thistle (Silymarin) for cholestatic liver disease (i.e. steroid induced) ((hhajdos post was Sub-Q)) but that doesn't mean no other exist or that Milk Thistle is completely ineffective. And would explain why some may see no or little liver value improvement with a Milk Thistle regimine alone. This doesn't mean that oral Milk Thistle has no use as a liver protective protocol. But it shouldn't be the primary constiuent in a liver protective regimine in regards to steroid based protection.

MT is relatively cheap and should be used, but when on heavy C17 orals, a more complete protocol should be administered.



You'll find a good article here>>

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle//magpage.php?artID=16&pageNum=1

 

[kenshiro]

Since your original question is Liver Protection Milk Thistle is a decent general liver protectant. However Steroids (C17) and say tylonel have different mechanisms in which they stress the liver. Steroids causes cholestasis, and tylenol, once glutathione is depleted, forms a free radical that causes the damage. NAC is not effective against Cholestasis, but is for glutathione depletion.

As for Milk Thistle I've found no great studies for oral Milk Thistle (Silymarin) for cholestatic liver disease (i.e. steroid induced) ((hhajdos post was Sub-Q)) but that doesn't mean no other exist or that Milk Thistle is completely ineffective. And would explain why some may see no or little liver value improvement with a Milk Thistle regimine alone. This doesn't mean that oral Milk Thistle has no use as a liver protective protocol. But it shouldn't be the primary constiuent in a liver protective regimine in regards to steroid based protection.

MT is relatively cheap and should be used, but when on heavy C17 orals, a more complete protocol should be administered.



You'll find a good article here>>

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle//magpage.php?artID=16&pageNum=1

interesting to know MT doesn't 'repair' damage done by orals....so wat shall we actually take ?

 

[Superior1]

If you're on a moderate to light oral regimine or short 8-12 weeks on orals your liver should be fine if you're otherwise healthy, or with no other underlying ailments in regards to the liver. I believe Silymarin is still a good choice for overall liver health. But if you find yourself with elevated values you may want to opt for other components, along with the Silymarin. I'll post more once I get a little data to back up any opinion or advice, otherwise it could open up a can of worms and some individuals will want citations anyway.

 

[kenshiro]

If you're on a moderate to light oral regimine or short 8-12 weeks on orals your liver should be fine if you're otherwise healthy, or with no other underlying ailments in regards to the liver. I believe Silymarin is still a good choice for overall liver health. But if you find yourself with elevated values you may want to opt for other components, along with the Silymarin. I'll post more once I get a little data to back up any opinion or advice, otherwise it could open up a can of worms and some individuals will want citations anyway.

i will go for a liver values check after my cycle of 6-8 weeks. how should i tell the doctor btw ? i just can't pop in and say, 'hey dr, i want to check my liver values' rite ?

 

[Superior1]

Why not

He aint the poeleece.... :-0

Actually you could just go here>>
http://www.themultiservicenetwork.com/?aid=19

And for $37 you can get the below panels run.
I believe they'd send you to a local clinic in your area and ends up being much cheaper than the doc visit and what he'd charge you for the lab to be run.

Liver Panel $37.00
Albumin
Alkaline Phosphatase
Alanine Transaminase (ALT) (SGPT)
Aspartate Transaminase (AST) (SGOT)
Bilirubin, Total
Billirubin, Direct
Protein, Total

 

[kenshiro]

He aint the poeleece.... :-0

Actually you could just go here>>
http://www.themultiservicenetwork.com/?aid=19

And for $37 you can get the below panels run.
I believe they'd send you to a local clinic in your area and ends up being much cheaper than the doc visit and what he'd charge you for the lab to be run.

Liver Panel $37.00
Albumin
Alkaline Phosphatase
Alanine Transaminase (ALT) (SGPT)
Aspartate Transaminase (AST) (SGOT)
Bilirubin, Total
Billirubin, Direct
Protein, Total

i dun live in the USA

 

[GymLift]

http://www.themultiservicenetwork.com/?aid=19

Didn't know about that one. Thanks. Added it to: http://steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77694

 

[monstro54245]

Liverrite 3&1 Men

 

[mass-ter]

this selling as Livercure on the net :

The Sunday Times - Britain
The Sunday Times September 24, 2006
Drug heal liver
,Sarah-Kate Templeton, Health Correspondent



,BRITISH scientists have discovered a drug that could cure liver disease, even in alcoholics who continue drinking.
The medicine, found by a team of doctors and scientists at Newcastle University, could become a potential alternative to liver transplants.



Until now cirrhosis of the liver, caused by alcohol, obesity or the hepatitis C virus, was considered incurable in all but the rarest of cases. The only option for patients in the final stages of liver disease was to wait for a liver transplant. However, because of organ shortages many die while on the waiting list.

Clinical trials of the drug Sulphasalazine are expected to begin in Britain next year. If these prove successful, the drug could be used to treat heavy drinkers, whose plight was recently illustrated by George Best, the former Manchester United footballer who died from liver disease last year.

Sulphasalazine, which already has a licence to treat arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease, acts by preventing scarring from developing on the liver.

Tests carried out in the laboratory and on animals have shown that the medication can even reverse damage already inflicted on the liver.

The drug will initially be given to heavy drinkers who have given up alcohol, but too late for their liver to recover naturally. If this proves successful, the medicine will also be prescribed to alcoholics who continue to drink but show a determination to fight their addiction by reducing their intake.

Professor Christopher Day, who heads Britain’s biggest team of liver specialists at Newcastle University, said: “If you stop a drinker with cirrhosis of the liver from drinking, the cirrhosis will still be there. Even though we remove the cause of the liver scarring, by this stage that is not enough.

“The prospect is that you may be able to continue drinking. If the drug is not too expensive, I may say, of course we have to give these patients advice about drinking, but who are we to say, ‘Just because you are still drinking, we are not going to give you this drug’? I would be of the view that it should be tried in patients who are making an effort.

“I would not give it to someone who continues to drink heavily every day, but if someone had cut down to three pints a night and was really trying, why not give him this drug that might help his liver recover?”

Sulphasalazine may also relieve the ethical dilemmas of distributing scarce donated livers to the most needy and deserving. The decision to give Best a liver transplant was controversial because the late footballer continued drinking. Critics argued that the organ should have been given to someone whose illness was not self-inflicted.

If the drug is not prohibitively expensive, it could be given to all liver disease patients, regardless of whether the damage had been caused by a congenital disorder or years of alcohol abuse.

“This drug is not a finite resource, you are not stealing it from someone else — which is always a worry in public opinion. People are dying on the transplant list,” Day added.

After years of heavy drinking or obesity, so many scars appear on the liver that it can no longer carry out its normal tasks such as storing essential proteins and vitamins while cleaning up toxic substances.

The new use for the drug followed the discovery by Professor Derek Mann, a member of the team at Newcastle University, who identified the cells and proteins that may move the liver disease into reverse.