longest u guys habe run tren

[Mrrippedzilla]

I've seen studies on fat loss while eating around 60g of fructose daily. That high an intake of fructose did not impede the fat loss due to caloric restriction. I eat fruit year round and probably eat more than most

Key words are caloric restiriction bro

During your daily activity, fat is the main source of energy so of course you will simply use up the fructose. But on a bulk its turning into fat & not coming out for sometime.

As a side note, I also eat alot of fruit as part of my refeeds on psmf style diets because I know the other 6 days of the week my caloric deficit is so severe that it really doesn't matter.

 

[Matt0071]

This was my point exactly, the original intent for this thread was to get someone to say I cruise on tren or run tren for extended periods and I'm ok and living when fact of the matter is Matt is nowhere ready for tren, let alone cruising on tren... That is my opinion.

Matt, I'm sure you work hard for it, but Tren is obviously not the answer for you, not yet anyway... Your body is obviously already starting to give way with your knees/back etc, I ain't trying to bash you nor am I going to tell you what you want to hear, but I would take a break off AAS and really hammer down on diet/training and give your body a break, if it matters that much to you and you definitely want to be on forever/don't mind blast and cruise at least drop down to a cruise dose of test only for 6 months or so to give your body a break and so you can figure out how you respond to tweaks in diet and training without all the extra AAS, then do a blast... Not only will that be more effective in terms of gains but also for your health... Anyone who knows what they are saying would agree on that, experience or no experience, you're setting yourself on a road full of butt hurt down the track, I ain't gonna hate if you admitted that would be a smart idea, I'd actually respect you for not being a fool who gives AAS a worse stigma than it already has.

Why u giving cycle advice to people when unhave no experience yourself running a cycle other then your so called bs text book learned from bb theory

 

[tbonexl]

Why u giving cycle advice to people when unhave no experience yourself running a cycle other then your so called bs text book learned from bb theory

If u weren't so ignorant, u should listen to what he has to say. Quit making yourself look like a fool Matt. It's getting really old and its just not cute anymore.

 

[Knot]

If that's accurate then I commend you. Your oils came out pretty nice bro

Thanks man, that means a lot coming from you!

 

[DreDay187]

Key words are caloric restiriction bro

During your daily activity, fat is the main source of energy so of course you will simply use up the fructose. But on a bulk its turning into fat & not coming out for sometime.

Correct me if I'm wrong here:

Dietary fat intake will almost always be stored as it's intake has little to do with it's oxidation. Carbs are the main source of energy and glucose but under certain conditions (keto for example) the body will use ketones or protein for glucose (too little fat for example). In a caloric surplus, the excess cals above TDEE go towards building muscle tissue and increasing fat stores. In a deficit, the more carbs you eat the more carbs you burn (since carbs are rarely stored as fat) but the less fat you burn as well. The more fat you eat the less carbs you burn (you're taking in less carbs if isocaloric diets) but you start to dip into stored fat for fuel. Whether you cut fat or carbs out the fat loss remains similar bc you'll just use more or less of each for energy and storage.

 

[Matt0071]

If u weren't so ignorant, u should listen to what he has to say. Quit making yourself look like a fool Matt. It's getting really old and its just not cute anymore.

Trust me man I dont listen to him nore u, your just a irratating flea

 

[tbonexl]

Ignorance is bliss, Matt...

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I dont have to prove nothing on this site, its useless to themones that hate doesnt matter there gonna keep hating nomatter my physique, and not to be rude but I dontnhabe to answer to a 19 year old that doesnt post pics up himself, for somenody thatnhasnt cycled before other then being put on trt u seem to kmow a lot about cycles
I find it hsrd to believe u stating u have been training for 3 years , hanging with bb and didnt cycle just wound up on trt, why u post here, why not on he trt forum section bro

Then why are you on here creating threads about your claimed progress?

I know a hell of a lot more than you obviously, I'm not the fool running his mouth claiming blast/cruise+Tren and still looking like a natural... You put this hate on yourself dude.

I can post anywhere I want, not just the TRT section. Just because I am around AAS and bodybuilding doesn't mean I have to jump on the AAS bandwagon...I did my research, hell yeah I considered it when I first started training but after research realised AAS is no joke and not something to be toyed around with hence why I never touched the stuff. Just FYI, you don't have to have touched AAS to be a candidate for TRT, albeit at 19 is the youngest age I have ever seen for non-AAS induced primary hypogonadism and usually its 21+ that people get on TRT (talking people with no previous AAS use and not everyone on TRT is posting on a forum about it, some go on with their lives and just take it as told). I have been training for 3 years since I was 16... 1.5 years later (5 months into being 17)I was doing great and actually felt pretty awesome, then it slowly went downhill, got sick, performance wasn't as good, wasn't feeling like a 17 year old anymore, libido dropped, strength and size wasn't comming anymore, started experiencing depression/anxiety and I suffered this all until near 19 after being through a few doctors, one finally tested me for a full hormone panel, everything except for T was fine, being high 300s, LH/FSH levels were also normal-high... Going on TRT thanks to e2 troubles was a bit rough, but I am not far off being dialed in and won't look back as it has made a massive difference. But this isn't about me, this is about you.

U said u have done a lot of research, u the fuck researches steroids at 16-18 if they dont plan on using?

Because no doubt I wanted to use AAS and I never denied I would not use it...That's why I first joined up here to get researching back in 2012, it never struck me my symptoms were from low T, but I didn't because my after researching heavily it was one of the first things I found out that teens+AAS=recipe for all sorts of problems. I knew I would, but at an appropriate age, making sure I knew exactly what I was doing, had my diet and training all sorted and making myself a nice base... You can't really make much of high 300s and that is a bullshit level for a 19 year old but TRT for me is not just for an anabolic edge, it is for how I feel mentally and physically AKA my health. Do I plan on blasting? Of course, not any time soon though and sure as fuck not before my TRT is dialed in and when I do it will be a blast of Test only maybe with a bit of var at the end... ain't no tren coming near me any time soon and it is besides the point. I also said there are aspects of my diet and training I can focus on and improve still to get results, AAS/blasting is the last piece in my arsenal.

Like I said, if you want a 19 year old AAS abuser, go hassle mr_ectomorph, not me.

You call me out, I'll give you a no bullshit factual answer. You're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for an argument or some sort of piss weak justification of how my advice is somehow null to you because of my age. Do as you please, I've got my body under control, you're the one who needs to take a step back and realise.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Correct me if I'm wrong here:

Dietary fat intake will almost always be stored as it's intake has little to do with it's oxidation. Carbs are the main source of energy and glucose but under certain conditions (keto for example) the body will use ketones or protein for glucose (too little fat for example).

This is correct but I think the key thing to remember is that carbs are only considered "the main source of energy" because the modern diet approach has a "fats are evil, eat more carbs" attitude. As you referred to with your keto example, the body is actually very flexible - using carbs when fats are low/unavailable & using fat when carbs are low/unavailable. As far as protein being used for glucose, I have seen situations where carbs/fats are too low and proteins are used as energy during high intensity cardio, but its usually in the 5-10% range and tends to come from amino acids floating around in the blood stream rather than skeletal muscle being broken down.

In a caloric surplus, the excess cals above TDEE go towards building muscle tissue and increasing fat stores. In a deficit, the more carbs you eat the more carbs you burn (since carbs are rarely stored as fat) but the less fat you burn as well. The more fat you eat the less carbs you burn (you're taking in less carbs if isocaloric diets) but you start to dip into stored fat for fuel. Whether you cut fat or carbs out the fat loss remains similar bc you'll just use more or less of each for energy and storage.

As I alluded to above, and as you pointed out, the body is smart enough to burn either carbs/fats depending on availability. But in terms of dipping into stored fat for fuel, the body utilizes this when sufficient amounts of other nutrients are unavailable (doesn't matter if its low carb, low fat, low protein or a combination of all 3).
The fat loss as you correctly state (again lol) remains similar but then you also have to consider insulin resistance/sensitivity (another complicated topic) from person to person in order to calculate whether they'll succeed (in terms of consistency with the diet) in their goals.

 

[apertur379]

Correct me if I'm wrong here:

Dietary fat intake will almost always be stored as it's intake has little to do with it's oxidation. Carbs are the main source of energy and glucose but under certain conditions (keto for example) the body will use ketones or protein for glucose (too little fat for example). In a caloric surplus, the excess cals above TDEE go towards building muscle tissue and increasing fat stores. In a deficit, the more carbs you eat the more carbs you burn (since carbs are rarely stored as fat) but the less fat you burn as well. The more fat you eat the less carbs you burn (you're taking in less carbs if isocaloric diets) but you start to dip into stored fat for fuel. Whether you cut fat or carbs out the fat loss remains similar bc you'll just use more or less of each for energy and storage.

This is correct but I think the key thing to remember is that carbs are only considered "the main source of energy" because the modern diet approach has a "fats are evil, eat more carbs" attitude. As you referred to with your keto example, the body is actually very flexible - using carbs when fats are low/unavailable & using fat when carbs are low/unavailable. As far as protein being used for glucose, I have seen situations where carbs/fats are too low and proteins are used as energy during high intensity cardio, but its usually in the 5-10% range and tends to come from amino acids floating around in the blood stream rather than skeletal muscle being broken down.




As I alluded to above, and as you pointed out, the body is smart enough to burn either carbs/fats depending on availability. But in terms of dipping into stored fat for fuel, the body utilizes this when sufficient amounts of other nutrients are unavailable (doesn't matter if its low carb, low fat, low protein or a combination of all 3).
The fat loss as you correctly state (again lol) remains similar but then you also have to consider insulin resistance/sensitivity (another complicated topic) from person to person in order to calculate whether they'll succeed (in terms of consistency with the diet) in their goals.

Sometimes it takes threads like these to bring up some these great post guys.. thanks for posting your insight!

 

[308power]

From what I understand from a lab in highschool, poop does contain calories. You could tell how efficient your digestive process is, by weighing your poop, in grams, then lighting it on fire underneath a thermometer to see how much the temperature rises in degrees of kelvin then dividing that apart by 4K per carb and protein, and 9k per gram of fat.

Not really, but i'm sure there's a way to make that work.

 

[Metalhead]

From what I understand from a lab in highschool, poop does contain calories. You could tell how efficient your digestive process is, by weighing your poop, in grams, then lighting it on fire underneath a thermometer to see how much the temperature rises in degrees of kelvin then dividing that apart by 4K per carb and protein, and 9k per gram of fat.

Not really, but i'm sure there's a way to make that work.

Someone somewhere is going to try this!

 

[R9]

View attachment 556420View attachment 556421View attachment 556422

I just wanted to be in on the thread

Is this the goal physique thread? Lookin' strong 308!

 

[308power]

Is this the goal physique thread? Lookin' strong 308!

Matt always calls people out so I just went ahead and posted pics because im sure we will disagree on something. This is probably the fattest ive ever been, so not a goal physique brother .

But thanks

 

[308power]

These 50 page threads come down to one thing. Matt is a dick to people because he feels the need to defend himself because he is always attacked for his little progress physique wise in consideration with the substances that he is running.

The truth is though, he has made definite progress that would be noticeable to others in real life. I'm sure he has a relatively intimidating appearance. But on steroidology, we dont compare ourselves to average people, we compare ourselves to people like Heath, Dexter, Greene... and Thompson, Lillybridge, Hoff in my sport.

That is why you are able to get recognition from casual gymgoers but not receive the same warmth from the steroidology community.

In reference to calling someone out for being 19. I graduated highschool at 17 and became an RN at 19, and hit a 600lb bench and 900lb squat...

Youth does not equal a lack of education, or even the ability to have clarity of thought.

Lets all be friends. Matt, keep up the training, take constructive criticism, consider it, and move on appropriately.



In for the hate. <3

 

[DreDay187]

This is correct but I think the key thing to remember is that carbs are only considered "the main source of energy" because the modern diet approach has a "fats are evil, eat more carbs" attitude. As you referred to with your keto example, the body is actually very flexible - using carbs when fats are low/unavailable & using fat when carbs are low/unavailable. As far as protein being used for glucose, I have seen situations where carbs/fats are too low and proteins are used as energy during high intensity cardio, but its usually in the 5-10% range and tends to come from amino acids floating around in the blood stream rather than skeletal muscle being broken down.

I agree about the fats are evil but there are some just the opposite saying carbs are. In either case I get a healthy amount of both lol. I don't fear one or the other but sometimes I want a high carb meal and other times I want bacon . For the people who can adapt to ketosis, the majority, fat is a great energy source also.

Somewhat off topic but in your opinion let's say someone is fairly lean and dieting down. At a certain point leptin and ghrelin begin to become serious considerations. Now my questions:

1) carbs are needed to restore leptin levels. It's not necessarily a refeed (caloric) but a carb refeed (a healthy dose of carbs not necessarily a caloric excess). Correct?

2) if it's is based on carbs, what's the minimum amount needed? ~150g? I've seen some figures recommending 250g of carbs but not sure if that's a minimum or general number.

3) does being in ketosis make leptin and ghrelin more of a challenge than diets with higher carbs?

As I alluded to above, and as you pointed out, the body is smart enough to burn either carbs/fats depending on availability. But in terms of dipping into stored fat for fuel, the body utilizes this when sufficient amounts of other nutrients are unavailable (doesn't matter if its low carb, low fat, low protein or a combination of all 3).
The fat loss as you correctly state (again lol) remains similar but then you also have to consider insulin resistance/sensitivity (another complicated topic) from person to person in order to calculate whether they'll succeed (in terms of consistency with the diet) in their goals.

What's the relationship between insulin sensitivity and leptin, is it inverse?

 

[DreDay187]

These 50 page threads come down to one thing. Matt is a dick to people because he feels the need to defend himself because he is always attacked for his little progress physique wise in consideration with the substances that he is running.

The truth is though, he has made definite progress that would be noticeable to others in real life. I'm sure he has a relatively intimidating appearance. But on steroidology, we dont compare ourselves to average people, we compare ourselves to people like Heath, Dexter, Greene... and Thompson, Lillybridge, Hoff in my sport.

That is why you are able to get recognition from casual gymgoers but not receive the same warmth from the steroidology community.

In reference to calling someone out for being 19. I graduated highschool at 17 and became an RN at 19, and hit a 600lb bench and 900lb squat...

Youth does not equal a lack of education, or even the ability to have clarity of thought.

Lets all be friends. Matt, keep up the training, take constructive criticism, consider it, and move on appropriately.



In for the hate. <3

It's a great post, no one should hate that lol

 

[308power]

From what I understand, Leptin is partially responsible for insulin sensitivity as a way to prime the body. Leptin also has links to electrolyte balance and fluid consumption. Really helps the body regulate alot of things...

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Lol I really didn't want to disturb matts thread with topics that are this complicated but I've received PMs indicating people are more interested in this then I suspected so I'll try and keep this simple (even though some of these issues are anything but).

Somewhat off topic but in your opinion let's say someone is fairly lean and dieting down. At a certain point leptin and ghrelin begin to become serious considerations. Now my questions:

1) carbs are needed to restore leptin levels. It's not necessarily a refeed (caloric) but a carb refeed (a healthy dose of carbs not necessarily a caloric excess). Correct?

Leptin is obviously extremely important when cutting because if it stays low for too long it starts to mess around with the appetite and body fat signals in your brain. This means you will feel hungry more & your brain will think fat isn't available for energy, which leads to an adaptive metabolic slowdown of around 10-15% more than necessary on a cut.
Some people call this a "metabolic crash" or "metabolic damage" but this is an overexaggeration; fat loss slows down but doesn't stop completely. I should mention that even if you maintain all of your muscle mass, this metabolic slowdown can still happen. So Leptin is VERY IMPORTANT!

Since leptin is this important, it is vital to upregulate it with refeeds.
It appears that the caloric deficit overcomes the carb availability, which means the body won't respond to the same deficit but with carbs replacing something else because it is primarily responding to caloric availability.
So not correct, calories will need to be raised alongside carbs - a caloric deficit with high carbs is completely pointless.

2) if it's is based on carbs, what's the minimum amount needed? ~150g? I've seen some figures recommending 250g of carbs but not sure if that's a minimum or general number.

In terms of how many carbs, this number would vary due to the varying degress of insulin resistance/sensitity in people that I mentioned in my previous posts and the level of bodyfat the individual has.
Generally, the lower your bf% drops/the larger your caloric deficit, the more often you will require refeeds and the higher the carb intake will need to be.

A general guideline would be between 1.25-5g carbs/lb depending on the factors I mentioned above.

My rule on refeeds is to push carbs as high as you can while still losing fat - for me that's 3g/lb but, depending on the insulin factors I previously mentioned, this can vary dramatically.

3) does being in ketosis make leptin and ghrelin more of a challenge than diets with higher carbs?

Leptin tends to drop around 60% within 2/3 days of any caloric deficit regardless of the macros used. As I mention in my answer in Q1, the caloric restriction seems to play a larger role than the lack of carbs per se (this applies even more to ghrelin).

So since I've been saying that the caloric deficit is more important than the carbs, why does it have to be a carb load? What role does Insulin play in all this? Well, this all leads to the most difficult question Dre has asked....



What's the relationship between insulin sensitivity and leptin, is it inverse?

The relationship between insulin sensitivity and leptin is an INSANELY important and complicated topic so this is a very, very, VERY simple answer.

As Leptin resistance (lower levels) increases, people become much more insulin sensitive to the point where I can take a client who has been insulin resistant for ever and make them insulin sensitive with a strong enough deficit.

Now due to this elavated insulin sensitivity, the body now prefers to use carbs as the main source of energy and works hard to preserve fat stores.
THIS is why we carb load - all the carbs you consume will be used for energy and their is practically zero chance of any of it going into your fat stores!

So not only does a high calorie, high carb refeed help upregulate all the important hormones, it should also lead to zero fat gain.
This is also why fat intake should be really low on a refeed because it will all go back into your fat stores. You will still lose fat, but for the purposes of a refeed its completely unneccessary and, for this purpose, empy calories.

I've tried to keep things simple so I hope its pretty clear, the insulin question Dre asked really deserves an article in its own right but who has the time right?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Sometimes it takes threads like these to bring up some these great post guys.. thanks for posting your insight!

yep... dre and rippedzilla conversing is better than porn