tury694
Pale Gorilla
Yeah, I would really find the data useful if it ever gets published or used in a study.
Looking for participants - AAS Study
- Thread starter chankle
- Start date
Yeah, I would really find the data useful if it ever gets published or used in a study.
When the study is fully accrued (currently 266/300) I will pull the data and run the stats. Likely multiple papers will come out of this. I will post the raw data as well as all manuscripts on each participating forum. Will also be willing to answer any questions about the studies/outcomes. Thanks again for your participation.
Thanks. I really appreciate when forum members take the study and comment on it being benign and legitimate. It really helps ease any concern about the study. There's no way of identifying anybody, nor do we want to. Keeping it anonymous protects you guys and allows the data to be honest/true.
Megatron28
Moderator
Chankle, how can we flip this around and educate doctors about AAS and TRT. It seems that most docs are clueless. Even on TRT.
- Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen? Check estradiol levels for a male?
- We are going to have to drop your TRT dose because your hematocrit is too high. What? Donate blood?
- One injection of Cypionate a month!
- Aromatase Inhibitors? But you don't have breast cancer.
- Raloxifene for gynecomastia?
- Check for sleep apnea before putting someone on TRT?
- Try an HPTA restart to treat Secondary Hypogonadism or failed PCT after a cycle?
And so on. What are your thoughts on helping docs get a clue?
- Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen? Check estradiol levels for a male?
- We are going to have to drop your TRT dose because your hematocrit is too high. What? Donate blood?
- One injection of Cypionate a month!
- Aromatase Inhibitors? But you don't have breast cancer.
- Raloxifene for gynecomastia?
- Check for sleep apnea before putting someone on TRT?
- Try an HPTA restart to treat Secondary Hypogonadism or failed PCT after a cycle?
And so on. What are your thoughts on helping docs get a clue?
You me halwit tuetonic Roush cuz he seems a little nutty and charles bronson cuz hes a boxer and whoever else wants to help go kidnap somebof the top notch doctors.
So we tie them up pump them with grams of tren and deca with no test for 6 months. Well have rotating shifts go on with our normal lives so no one will suspect anything.
Then charles bronson knocks them out we take them to a deserted area dump them off. So now they are forced to be on trt and obviously are gonna have to do extensive research on how to keep themselves working optimally.
Then they will know exactly how trt should be prescribed and will share there experience with doctors all over the world.... problem solved
Awsome brother this is for a good cause thank you
Megatron,
The paradigm is shifting, but the actual practice of medicine often lags behind the most recent research due to dogma and failure to stay up to date with new data. I will say that physician administered TRT has come a long way since I started medical school. Also, the stigma of testosterone causing prostate cancer, BPH, urinary problems, heart disease, etc. is slowly being disproven with new research.
1. 10 years ago the dogma was TRT would doom you to prostate CA. Obviously a bit of an exaggeration, but the point stands. Now we have data with median follow up of 5 years and range up to 14 years showing a 1.1% risk of prostate CA in a heavily screened (ie. didn't miss prostate cancer) group of individuals on TRT. This is much lower than the incidence we see in the PLCO (7.5%) and ERSPC (9.6%) prostate CA screening trials. Surely some of this discrepancy is due to difference in age, but nonetheless it's obvious data does not support Testosterone as a cause of prostate CA. There's some retrospective data showing high T is linked to lower grade cancers if indeed you get prostate cancer and also more hormone sensitive tumors as compared to those with low T levels. Both would be protective in the setting of prostate CA. So one could dare say that when replaced to normal physiologic levels T may have a protective component.
2. It was also previously believed T replacement would excessively elevate PSA and cause BPH. We now know average PSA increase is 0.2-0.6 (minimal) and prostate volume increases 1-7 grams (minimal).
3. Again it was believed TRT was terrible for the heart and caused heart disease. Slowly we are seeing no increase in mortality or coronary artery disease retrospectively, but we need better studies to confirm. Yes, there's the VA paper (increased cardiovascular mortality) that received a ton of publicity, but the study design was terrible and no expert in the field will give credit to that study.
The points above show we are making progress but it takes time.
As you mention, cypionate injections monthly or even Q2 weeks show minimal understanding of the ester half life. Fortunately, the new endocrine society guidelines do state that injectable cyp or enanthate esters are optimally dosed on a weekly basis. I agree aromatase inhibitors can play a role in TRT especially in overweight individuals with higher aromatase levels (correlates with bodyfat percentage). There's some data supporting SERMS for gynocomastia, specifically tamoxifene is the paper I can pull off the top of my head so yes I think it can be trialed for low grade gynecomastia in patients who don't want to proceed to surgery.
You have valid points and I too agree that hopefully physicians become better versed in administering TRT. Speaking only for our institution, I feel we do an excellent job providing TRT in line with the most recent data. That said, practices across the nation vary tremendously and I'm sure it's difficult for a patient to find someone with TRT expertise.
*This post is for discussion purposes only and does not represent medical advice. Please discuss any medical concerns with your personal physician*
PrinceDianabol
Well-known member
STAUNCHED427
Elite Juicer
Done, glad I could help!
Thanks! Looking forward to the data and research that will come out of this.
Bumping the threads on all participating forums 1 last time. I need 15 more to complete the study. Thank you to all those who have participated. Expect the manuscript and data in the next couple of months. Please take the survey posted in the first post to finish up the last 15 if you have time.
Greatly Appreciated,
Chankle
Greatly Appreciated,
Chankle
STAUNCHED427
Elite Juicer
Me too. There needs to be more studies on AAS.
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