My New Cycle!

[Alozade]

You eat like a bird. Not trying to be a dick but its bad enough that youre 170lbs and running a stack like that, much less any gear at all. But its even worse that youve run 4 cycles and youre still only 170lbs.

well said.

stop making excuses. you're a hard gainer because your diet and training is off. after your 4th cycle and standing in at 170lb @ 5'10" you should have come to the conclusion by now gear isn't the answer.

 

[getfitdoc]

whats ur best bench, squat and deadlift #'s?

 

[TheProdigy]

My best ever would be 305b 370sq 405d but I don't train like that anymore. I don't believe it has any use to lift that much. I train in circuits now and do alot of crossfit training. I am a mixed martial artist and train 5 days a week.

 

[estray]

My best ever would be 305b 370sq 405d but I don't train like that anymore. I don't believe it has any use to lift that much. I train in circuits now and do alot of crossfit training. I am a mixed martial artist and train 5 days a week.

Theres nothing wrong with training that way if youre just trying to be generally fit, work on your endurance, or maybe lean up some. But to say heavy weight training has no use really shows your ignorance because heavy weights is how youre gonna add mass, not cross training. Sounds to me like you want to add the muscle but you dont want to do the work and so thats why you think taking all that gear is the solution.


See, i knew your training was fucked too. God i love being right.

 

[TheProdigy]

Theres nothing wrong with training that way if youre just trying to be generally fit, work on your endurance, or maybe lean up some. But to say heavy weight training has no use really shows your ignorance because heavy weights is how youre gonna add mass, not cross training. Sounds to me like you want to add the muscle but you dont want to do the work and so thats why you think taking all that gear is the solution.


See, i knew your training was fucked too. God i love being right.

o estray......this is what i said...


My best ever would be 305b 370sq 405d but I don't train like that anymore. I don't believe it has any use to lift THAT MUCH




I still lift 225 for sets in bench. Squat 260 and deadlift 300. That is enough to grow. I don't think lifting heavy all the time or training like a power lifter has any use for me or for life in general.

 

[TheProdigy]

Ive gotten to 170-175 from hard work> Alot of hard work. If I don't work out I lose weight. I could easily drop to 145-150 no problem. I want to be at 185-190 still lean as I am or not much more bf and I keep able gain.

 

[estray]

o estray......this is what i said...


My best ever would be 305b 370sq 405d but I don't train like that anymore. I don't believe it has any use to lift THAT MUCH




I still lift 225 for sets in bench. Squat 260 and deadlift 300. That is enough to grow. I don't think lifting heavy all the time or training like a power lifter has any use for me or for life in general.

Its laughable that you say thats enough to grow on when youre only 170 lbs. Sorry broski, if youve been working out for 13 years then those numbers above arent enough to grow on and youre living proof.

If you would just follow the 3 basic principles

*lift heavy
*eat big
*get plenty of rest

You could be as big as you want but you just wont listen. And with the gear youve taken, youd get there that much faster. But you'd rather spend 13 years of training just spinning your wheels. But you think you have it nailed. lol


Ive seen enough.


Have fun.

 

[TheMilkMan]

I love it when guys with 17 posts tell seasoned vets that they are wrong...

eat more, train heavy w/ less volume, no gear, grow

 

[TheProdigy]

You can grow just as much from lifting in the 8-10 rep range. You DONT have to lift heavy weight to grow all you have to do is overload the muscle. Super setting tempo variation rest patterns negatives will all make you grow just as much as using heavy weight and low reps. As long as your challenging yourself you will grow. 75% max range is fine. The vets are all heavy weight with injuries and no cardio at all. Working out for years but unhealthy.

 

[getfitdoc]

o estray......this is what i said...


My best ever would be 305b 370sq 405d but I don't train like that anymore. I don't believe it has any use to lift THAT MUCH




I still lift 225 for sets in bench. Squat 260 and deadlift 300. That is enough to grow. I don't think lifting heavy all the time or training like a power lifter has any use for me or for life in general.

Ya you don't have to lift heavy all the time to grow. But you do have to mix in the heavy lifting and continue to make strength gains in at least some areas.

Watch, when you add that 20lbs of muscle you want, you will be stronger in your lifts.

I always thought that getting stronger is fun. Not too many 190 lb guys at 5'10" running 1 gram plus of gear per week after their 4th cycle can only bench 305 squat 370 and DL 405.

I get what you are saying though, you dont have to always lift heavy. But if you really want to maximize your size gains, and you are a hard gainer, it's been proven over and over that lifting heavy with low volume works amazing.

Have you ever tried the DC routine? Or even the 3x3 or 5x5 routine... U know, the 5x5 routine works great for guys who don't want to lift that heavy, just keep your rest periods to about 2 minutes..

anyway, just throwing some thoughts at you...

I wish you the best of luck in your next cycle, can't wait to hear about your 20 extra lbs.

it would be great to see a training log from you, i'd love to see how you train and see the results, maybe i would learn a few things

I'm preparing my 1st cycle, just test, with proper post cycle therapy (pct) is all im into at this point, so im not expert in AAS... but i have been lifting for 10+ years and I've built a solid base (i'd like to think) kinda similar to you. lean but strong, 6ft 190, sub 10 BF%

be cool bro!

 

[TheProdigy]

Ya you don't have to lift heavy all the time to grow. But you do have to mix in the heavy lifting and continue to make strength gains in at least some areas.

Watch, when you add that 20lbs of muscle you want, you will be stronger in your lifts.

I always thought that getting stronger is fun. Not too many 190 lb guys at 5'10" running 1 gram plus of gear per week after their 4th cycle can only bench 305 squat 370 and DL 405.

I get what you are saying though, you dont have to always lift heavy. But if you really want to maximize your size gains, and you are a hard gainer, it's been proven over and over that lifting heavy with low volume works amazing.

Have you ever tried the DC routine? Or even the 3x3 or 5x5 routine... U know, the 5x5 routine works great for guys who don't want to lift that heavy, just keep your rest periods to about 2 minutes..

anyway, just throwing some thoughts at you...

I wish you the best of luck in your next cycle, can't wait to hear about your 20 extra lbs.

it would be great to see a training log from you, i'd love to see how you train and see the results, maybe i would learn a few things

I'm preparing my 1st cycle, just test, with proper post cycle therapy (pct) is all im into at this point, so im not expert in AAS... but i have been lifting for 10+ years and I've built a solid base (i'd like to think) kinda similar to you. lean but strong, 6ft 190, sub 10 BF%

be cool bro!

I know what you are saying. Its inevitable that I'm going to get stronger but that is not my goal. I do the 5-5 routine every third week but I do alot of bodyweight exercises polymetrics with it. I do full body workouts non stop for 10 mins straight. I still do alot of target weight training and mix it up with heavy but not heavy all the time. I have been researching this cycle for a year and I believe I'm ready for it.
Its good to see that you have been researching alot yourself and if you have been lifting that long and your build is the same as mine than you know what I mean. Some people just don't have the genetics to understand how hard of a gainer I am.

 

[getfitdoc]

I'm not sure if im a true hard gainer. I have trouble eating a lot of food, it causes severe discomfort. My digestive tract can't handle it, or doesn't handle it very well. I have a lot of allergies and I think this has something to do with it.

 

[estray]

Ya you don't have to lift heavy all the time to grow. But you do have to mix in the heavy lifting and continue to make strength gains in at least some areas.

This is correct, you dont have to lift heavy ALL the time. Taking short periods of a week or 2 to deload is very beneficial. But at the end of the year you need to be lifting more weight than the previous year. Progressive overload. So if at one point he could bench 305 but now hes doing sets of 8with 225 then hes going backwards. He should be able to do a set of 8 with 250 easy. Furthermore, circuit training has its place like i said before but you need to be doing the big 3 lifts all by themselves. Wearing yourself out on a circuit that includes bench for example isnt gonna help your bench go up or put mass on your chest. You need to recover between sets and catch your breath so you can get the most out of the next set. This is not what circuit training allows. The only people that circuit train in my gym are the skinny no muscle guys who i see doing the same shit week in week out and their bodies never change. Sure they got thier abs and theyre lean, but thats all they got.


Bottom line is after 13 years of lifting and 4 cycles he should be doing more than 225x8. Hell i was doing that after 1 year of natural lifting and i was 180lbs so similar size to him but not lean like him. Whatever routine hes doing/been doing obviously sucks.

If he wants to quit pussyfooting around and put on this last 15-20 lbs all he has to do is do a mass program like 5x5 just like you said. That with alot of food, rest, and if he insist on running gear, probably 500mg of test a week ,and hed be there in no time.

I just dont think he has it in him to eat the way thats required to put on mass. I think hes one of these ab-obsessed guys that freaks out when he has a high sodium meal and thier abs get a little soft(even though its only temporary). Know lots of em at my gym alone. That meal plan he posted was way too clean and low on calories (well before he changed it 3 times lol), especially for a hard gainer.

 

[TheProdigy]

This is correct, you dont have to lift heavy ALL the time. Taking short periods of a week or 2 to deload is very beneficial. But at the end of the year you need to be lifting more weight than the previous year. Progressive overload. So if at one point he could bench 305 but now hes doing sets of 8with 225 then hes going backwards. He should be able to do a set of 8 with 250 easy. Furthermore, circuit training has its place like i said before but you need to be doing the big 3 lifts all by themselves. Wearing yourself out on a circuit that includes bench for example isnt gonna help your bench go up or put mass on your chest. You need to recover between sets and catch your breath so you can get the most out of the next set. This is not what circuit training allows. The only people that circuit train in my gym are the skinny no muscle guys who i see doing the same shit week in week out and their bodies never change.


Bottom line is after 13 years of lifting and 4 cycles he should be doing more than 225x8. Hell i was doing that after 1 year of natural lifting and i was 180lbs so similar size to him but not lean like him. Whatever routine hes doing/been doing obviously sucks.

If he wants to quit pussyfooting around and put on this last 15-20 lbs all he has to do is do a mass program like 5x5 just like you said. That with alot of food, rest, and if he insist on running gear, probably 500mg of test a week ,and hed be there in no time.

I just dont think he has it in him to eat the way thats required to put on mass. I think hes one of these ab-obsessed guys that freaks out when he has a high sodium meal and thier abs get a little soft(even though its only temporary). Know lots of em at my gym alone. That meal plan he posted was way too clean and low on calories (well before he changed it 3 times lol), especially for a hard gainer.

do you even read before you type or just type

and you think wrong

 

[TheProdigy]

o and yeah i could probably still put that weight up but i don't max out anymore

 

[estray]

Oh and genetics is just a cop out. I have terrible genetics but im not having any problems gaining. Thats because i shut my fuckin mouth when i came to the boards and listened to the vets. I think homeboy needs to read this rant from Dante (and if he doenst know who dante is after 13 years of lifting- well i guess it wouldnt really surpise me based on what weve seen so far) Most, if not all of it, applies to him.




Originally Posted by DOGGCRAPP View Post
Because bodybuilders have obsessive compulsive personalities and can never think in the following terms:

a)Dieting down could never be as simple as keeping a semblance of what made that muscle mass (protein wise) in the diet and thinking "green" (replacing carbohydrates at key times with with spinach, asparagus, broccolli) and filling up hunger pangs with leafage/salads......all the while increasing energy expenditure thru cardio and supplements

Nope, Joe Bodybuilder goes to hell in a handbasket and chucks everything that made him that actual muscle mass and starts dieting on a tuna fish and rice cake diet, disengrates, loses gobs of precious muscle mass, falls off the wagon and cheats......and pretty much destroys what he made in the offseason.

b) Training couldnt be as simple as the thought process of "ok what have the most massive bodybuilders of the last 20 years done to develop that muscle mass?" "What was a common theme?" If you remove the Ultra genetically elite from the equation who could grow off of lifting a garbage can and whose genetics are 10x more than the average bodybuilder (Dillett, Wheeler)......Hmmmm it seems the ultra massive were all extremely powerful (Yates, Coleman, Francois, Kovacs, Dennis James, Chris Cormier) and they accomplished that thru the years. We all know they didnt start out inclining 405lbs so they were all progressive in their training.....using heavier and heavier poundages (safely) over the years.....thats it "progression X time"
Nope not for Joe Bodybuilder-----there has got to be a secret. There must be some kind of hidden holy grail training that is going to transfer them into superstar status within 6 months.....they just got to find out what it is. So they jump from training routine to training routine (sometimes monthly) buying into the latest big words a bodybuilder author who has never made it over 172lbs can throw at them from his thesaurus. Supersets, Drop sets, Giant sets, psycho training, Wild Monkey Balls training, East Hungarian Ballistic pre World War II training....there has got to be a secret! Maybe if I train for 8 hours! Maybe if i start out with a regular weight and keep doing 85 drop sets until im lifting with the pink 2.5 lb dumbells before dropping them, that will be the key! Whats Flex magazine say this month, I'll switch from what I was doing from Flex magazine LAST month!

c) Drugs, It couldnt be as simple as everyone else out there who starts out using drugs.... How many pro bodybuilders have good buddies they trained with during their development of physique years? Buddies doing the exact same drugs as themselves. Maybe that buddy was even getting the drugs for that pro and knew exactly what he was doing. How come all those friends of pro bodybuilders got dwarfed in a short time period? How come all those friends of pro bodybuilders who were doing the same stuff never got their pro cards, never even won their state show, never even won a small show and maybe werent even in the top 5 biggest guys in that gym? Could it have been bodybuilding genetics, genetic response to drugs and training and not some magical drug stack?

Nope Joe Bodybuilder cant have that. Its not fair for him to think himself as a lesser mortal than others. He cannot deal with the fact that MOM and POP robbed him of incredible genetics that can do a set of halfass barbell curls and grow 1/2 inch. He has to make it right in his head. And he does that by going by the notion that every single pro bodybuilder (or hell anyone who is bigger than him) is "loaded to the gills", and is using magical compounds he doesnt know about. If only he too could get ahold of those magical compounds, then he would reap the glory of massiveness!****Dante: When as an example I train a gigantic offseason pro a couple years back and he is 335lbs...and he confides in me "Dante I only use 750mg of test a week, and even that makes me break out so I never go over that...I hate breaking out! Went to 1000 once and it was awful so I stay at 750" "I am not loaded with money, things are tight so I use 400mg of deca in the offseason with it, I have never used GH, cant afford it...like I said things are really tight financially"

and then I see guys on these boards with these mega volume stacks of 10 different compounds including IGF, MGF, insulin, GH, and some rare testosterone blend from Portugal (its got to be the secret!).....all the while weighing 208 lbs

you kind of get a different perspective on things.

d) Gaining weight could never be as easy as finding a healthy productive diet that works for you (bodybuilders always fall into modes when eating....if you give them a couple rules to abide by, within a couple weeks they will be eating the same things usually monday thru friday (workdays) and a little bit differently on weekends. But mark it down bodybuilders are creatures of habit and will probably be eating the same things every single day. So to keep it simple to make them gain weight you just add where things need to be added. Two tablespoons of all natural peanut butter here, 1 tablespoon of olive oil there, one more scoop of waxy maize or protein powder there. It really doesnt take much to get a guy gaining again when he plateaus....just a little addition here and there is all it takes especially at key meals.

Nope Joe Bodybuilder wont have that. Whats his thoughts? "I am obsessive compulsive and im chucking my regular offseason diet (which could be made golden with just a few tweaks) and I'll eat 8000-10,000 calories instead!!!!" So Joe bodybuilder instead of using deductive reasoning and using a little scotch tape to fix problems, takes a sledgehammer to it and tries to put it back together with superglue, dirt and spit. Eight months later Joe bodybuilder is obese, gained 5lbs of fat to every 1/2lb of muscle he put on and is miserable. In which he comes out on a message board and blames not only the diet (no he wont say "Im an idiot" he will blame the diet) but also say its because he isnt on the magical stack the pro's are on.....otherwise it would of worked

 

[TheProdigy]

I'm not sure if im a true hard gainer. I have trouble eating a lot of food, it causes severe discomfort. My digestive tract can't handle it, or doesn't handle it very well. I have a lot of allergies and I think this has something to do with it.

Bifidus Regularis(Yogurt) helps the digestive tract. Highfiber foods, like fruits, vegetables, and whole grains will regulate your system better if your diet is not already rich in those foods.

 

[TheProdigy]

Look buddy I'm not trying to look like the pros nor want to. I am an athlete who is in great shape has gained 20-25 pounds of lean muscle over natural size naturally and wants another 10-20 unnaturally. Thats it...Thats all If I wanted to be a 260 pound muscle head that couldn't run around the block I would. Maybe thats what you are going for not me. You keep doing your 1 set of 350 for 3 reps talk for 20 mins look around see who's watching you do another 8 say you were at the gym for 2 hours and go to bed.

 

[TheProdigy]

When I started working out I was 120 pounds. Progressed to my natural weight of 145-150. Gained until 170-175.

 

[getfitdoc]

I eat a lot of fiber,

Good posts estray...

man the 5x5 helped me a lot.

Dante knows what he's talking about.

again, prodigy, I'd love to see you do a workout journal, I'm very interested in seeing your gains... keep us posted.