Need urgent help - incorrect dose

[AlmightyZeus]

Thank you guys seriously... I really appreciate that comparison because he was freaking out it was 80.. And now I can show him it's not terribly high haha.

UPDATE ON HIM:

Got denied at Red Cross because he had a tiny tattoo on his forearm and he probably didn't think about it when they asked him if he got it done in the last 12 months.. Which he responded yes.. So now we go the doctors route. He will be seeing a new physician tomorrow and he will bring his blood work and show his hematocrit level. I'm sure they will give him a script. So regarding his FSH and the blood work I posted .. Since they are so low does that indicate hypoglodalism? So he cannot come back if he were to stop TRT correct? Also they took his BP at Red Cross and it seems fine but we need to get this therapeutic session done ASAP.

Edit: will the doc look at his estrogen and want to step in and prescribe him some AI? Should he bring all his Blood work and let them know he's on TRT?(this is a new doc, his original doc can't see him for another week) I don't know if I mentioned this but like 4-5 years ago he was on prescribed TRT, HGH, HCG from a anti aging clinic, and he stopped completely randomly one day without proper PCT because it was just too expensive.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Thank you guys seriously... I really appreciate that comparison because he was freaking out it was 80.. And now I can show him it's not terribly high haha.

UPDATE ON HIM:

Got denied at Red Cross because he had a tiny tattoo on his forearm and he probably didn't think about it when they asked him if he got it done in the last 12 months.. Which he responded yes.. So now we go the doctors route. He will be seeing a new physician tomorrow and he will bring his blood work and show his hematocrit level. I'm sure they will give him a script. So regarding his FSH and the blood work I posted .. Since they are so low does that indicate hypoglodalism? So he cannot come back if he were to stop TRT correct? Also they took his BP at Red Cross and it seems fine but we need to get this therapeutic session done ASAP.

Edit: will the doc look at his estrogen and want to step in and prescribe him some AI? Should he bring all his Blood work and let them know he's on TRT?(this is a new doc, his original doc can't see him for another week) I don't know if I mentioned this but like 4-5 years ago he was on prescribed TRT, HGH, HCG from a anti aging clinic, and he stopped completely randomly one day without proper PCT because it was just too expensive.

Yes, take all your bloodwork with him. Make sure he tells them that he was denied by red cross due to hematocrit - doc will have no choice but to prescribe the phlebotomy. Getting that done should be his main priority right now.

No, the bloodwork you provided just indicates that he's on exogenous hormones. LH and FSH are the signals the brain sends to the testes to tell them to produce more androgens (testosterone + few others.) Since he is injecting test the brain senses that and does not call for any more to be made... hence they are both at 0. The brain realises it has enough T and doesn't want to make any more. This happens anytime you are on cycle/TRT or inject any AAS and this is the inherent risk of ending up relying on TRT.

We would need to see his pre-TRT bloods to know if he has/had any chance of avoiding TRT. It would depend if he was primary or secondary hypogonadal, and if he's attempted any restarts yet. Depending how long he's been on TRT though will damage the odds of recovery too. The longer he's been suppressed the worse the problem becomes. Hence why TRT is for life - if you ever come off, generally you will be worse off than when you started.

Unlikely that the doc would prescribe an AI - but if he does, that's awesome. They come in 1mg pills which are fairly easy to break up equally. Probably easier to deal with than the caps (and I'm not entirely sure if capsules are uniform.) Most docs are totally clueless when it comes to hormones and either don't realise or won't prescribe an AI for off-label use (it is a breast cancer drug.)

Also, you will need to tell the doc that he got his doses wrong. If he sees TT at 2k ng/dl he's going to think he's cycling. I don't know how that will go down... he'll probably get a lecture about being a steroid abuser but as long as he get's the phlebotomy that's all that matters.

 

[Megatron28]

Thank you guys seriously... I really appreciate that comparison because he was freaking out it was 80.. And now I can show him it's not terribly high haha.

UPDATE ON HIM:

Got denied at Red Cross because he had a tiny tattoo on his forearm and he probably didn't think about it when they asked him if he got it done in the last 12 months.. Which he responded yes.. So now we go the doctors route. He will be seeing a new physician tomorrow and he will bring his blood work and show his hematocrit level. I'm sure they will give him a script. So regarding his FSH and the blood work I posted .. Since they are so low does that indicate hypoglodalism? So he cannot come back if he were to stop TRT correct? Also they took his BP at Red Cross and it seems fine but we need to get this therapeutic session done ASAP.

Edit: will the doc look at his estrogen and want to step in and prescribe him some AI? Should he bring all his Blood work and let them know he's on TRT?(this is a new doc, his original doc can't see him for another week) I don't know if I mentioned this but like 4-5 years ago he was on prescribed TRT, HGH, HCG from a anti aging clinic, and he stopped completely randomly one day without proper PCT because it was just too expensive.

I personally would wait the week to see his regular doctor rather than some random doc.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

I personally would wait the week to see his regular doctor rather than some random doc.

Agreed, good catch Mega. Is there some reason for the new doc?

 

[AlmightyZeus]

Thank you so much prince for the detailed explanation. We followed your directions. I also explained the what you spoke on about the FSH and what not to him.. You're a life saver.

So to update you guys on him... I'm sorry I have been so busy doing stuff I haven't had time to update you guys.

He went to the doc, told them everything... Showed them bloodwork... Doc came back into the room and said he needs to give blood ASAP. What a surprise! Hah. She had a place for him to go but was unable to fit him into the schedule so she told him to go the emergency room and tell his story over again.. Which he did.. 6 hours after he went in he finally got out... Did his therapeutic session. Whew.
Asked him the following day how he felt and he said still weak but it's been a few days and it seems like his mood is a whole lot better and feeling better as well. Still giving him .25 Adex 2x a week.

So the doc told him because his levels of test were so high it's best to stop the shots for two weeks so that his test levels drop to around a TRT dose and he can go back to doing his injections. What are your thoughts? I had an experienced experienced guy at the gym tell me to have him stop for a week and a half or so..about the same what the doc said. So maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea ? What are your thoughts vets?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Thank you so much prince for the detailed explanation. We followed your directions. I also explained the what you spoke on about the FSH and what not to him.. You're a life saver.

So to update you guys on him... I'm sorry I have been so busy doing stuff I haven't had time to update you guys.

He went to the doc, told them everything... Showed them bloodwork... Doc came back into the room and said he needs to give blood ASAP. What a surprise! Hah. She had a place for him to go but was unable to fit him into the schedule so she told him to go the emergency room and tell his story over again.. Which he did.. 6 hours after he went in he finally got out... Did his therapeutic session. Whew.
Asked him the following day how he felt and he said still weak but it's been a few days and it seems like his mood is a whole lot better and feeling better as well. Still giving him .25 Adex 2x a week.

So the doc told him because his levels of test were so high it's best to stop the shots for two weeks so that his test levels drop to around a TRT dose and he can go back to doing his injections. What are your thoughts? I had an experienced experienced guy at the gym tell me to have him stop for a week and a half or so..about the same what the doc said. So maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea ? What are your thoughts vets?

I'm very glad to hear that brother, happy to help

Make sure you friend knows he will need to monitor his blood for hematocrit/RBCs etc. as long as he is on TRT. He might've just spiked things off due to the increased dose, but a lot of guys do need to donate frequently even on TRT doses. I don't, but I'm lucky

I think the doc is just a little scared... In reality that level of T isn't actually that high, most guys go over that on cycle. It wouldn't be a safe place to stay year round, but the 4-5 weeks it will take to get down to normal is fine. It's really up to your friend.. two options here:

1) Follow docs advice and stop injections for a while... levels will fall much faster and you have the potential to dip under then spike back when you start again... I would prefer to avoid fluctuations. It would be really tough to time things in such a way that you could completely avoid that. But it will get his levels down fast. Or...

2) Simply revert back to his proper protocol at the lower dose. Levels will gradually decline over the next 4-6 weeks or so until they stabilize where they should be. This would be my preferred option, but each to their own.

Of course, you could always meet half way and simply skip one injection. That would be very unlikely to cause a drop fast enough to create a big fluctuation and still allow levels to fall a bit quicker. In all honesty though, I personally wouldn't bother... Unless there's some reason he really wants to get down faster.

Also, keep in mind you may need to reduce the AI dosage when his T comes down. Please remember not to change the protocol anymore than needed before bloods too.. so when he goes back to the lower T dose, pick your AI dose and don't change anything from that protocol for six weeks (to be safe.) Then pull bloods and see where everything's sitting. For example, if e2 is still slightly too high, adjust the AI dose then wait two weeks.. then pull bloods. Change nothing else during that time so your blood work is unbiased.

Catch my drift?

 

[Megatron28]

I am with PD. Skip one injection and then pick back up on the proper dose. Make sure he understands how to measure and administer his doses.

I am surprised his HCT levels were viewed as an emergency.

 

[AlmightyZeus]

I'm very glad to hear that brother, happy to help

Make sure you friend knows he will need to monitor his blood for hematocrit/RBCs etc. as long as he is on TRT. He might've just spiked things off due to the increased dose, but a lot of guys do need to donate frequently even on TRT doses. I don't, but I'm lucky

I think the doc is just a little scared... In reality that level of T isn't actually that high, most guys go over that on cycle. It wouldn't be a safe place to stay year round, but the 4-5 weeks it will take to get down to normal is fine. It's really up to your friend.. two options here:

1) Follow docs advice and stop injections for a while... levels will fall much faster and you have the potential to dip under then spike back when you start again... I would prefer to avoid fluctuations. It would be really tough to time things in such a way that you could completely avoid that. But it will get his levels down fast. Or...

2) Simply revert back to his proper protocol at the lower dose. Levels will gradually decline over the next 4-6 weeks or so until they stabilize where they should be. This would be my preferred option, but each to their own.

Of course, you could always meet half way and simply skip one injection. That would be very unlikely to cause a drop fast enough to create a big fluctuation and still allow levels to fall a bit quicker. In all honesty though, I personally wouldn't bother... Unless there's some reason he really wants to get down faster.

Also, keep in mind you may need to reduce the AI dosage when his T comes down. Please remember not to change the protocol anymore than needed before bloods too.. so when he goes back to the lower T dose, pick your AI dose and don't change anything from that protocol for six weeks (to be safe.) Then pull bloods and see where everything's sitting. For example, if e2 is still slightly too high, adjust the AI dose then wait two weeks.. then pull bloods. Change nothing else during that time so your blood work is unbiased.

Catch my drift?

Yes absolutely brother, I do.

BTW, my friend is my dad so that was the urgency with all the posts and details and what not. Can't let pops down!

I think he will most likely go with option A. He's still getting the slight headaches and sweats but I know it's related to Hematorcit more than the High levels of T. But regardless he wants to go back to normal even tho I told him to enjoy it while he can. He complained about two nights ago in bed when he was almost asleep his heart rate went off pretty fast and he told me he had to do some breathing exercises to get it to go down.. It didn't last very long he said. Then happened again around 5 am. This one last a little longer. I'm sure this was all caused by the high hematocrit though...

So tomorrow he goes back to the doc to see his levels again after going to the ER for the therapeutic session and what not.. If you guys would like I could post his blood work when I get them so that way you guys can see how much just his levels dropped after 1 session.

So regarding his e2.. What is a safe level to be at? Obviously he's at 80 now. And the range is like 8-42 or something.. So anywhere in between that is a safe zone? I have to try to ask him if he has any pre blood work to see where his natural levels of E are so we can get him back but if doesn't have any.. Where do we start to say, it's time to reduce the AI dose..? Does that make sense?

Thanks again, and yeah mega, they just came back in the room and said you have to give blood today. Lol

 

[AlmightyZeus]

I am with PD. Skip one injection and then pick back up on the proper dose. Make sure he understands how to measure and administer his doses.

I am surprised his HCT levels were viewed as an emergency.

Alrighty, thank you mega.

We have to find that sweet spot between 100-200mg.. What is yours?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Yes absolutely brother, I do.

BTW, my friend is my dad so that was the urgency with all the posts and details and what not. Can't let pops down!

I think he will most likely go with option A. He's still getting the slight headaches and sweats but I know it's related to Hematorcit more than the High levels of T. But regardless he wants to go back to normal even tho I told him to enjoy it while he can. He complained about two nights ago in bed when he was almost asleep his heart rate went off pretty fast and he told me he had to do some breathing exercises to get it to go down.. It didn't last very long he said. Then happened again around 5 am. This one last a little longer. I'm sure this was all caused by the high hematocrit though...

So tomorrow he goes back to the doc to see his levels again after going to the ER for the therapeutic session and what not.. If you guys would like I could post his blood work when I get them so that way you guys can see how much just his levels dropped after 1 session.

So regarding his e2.. What is a safe level to be at? Obviously he's at 80 now. And the range is like 8-42 or something.. So anywhere in between that is a safe zone? I have to try to ask him if he has any pre blood work to see where his natural levels of E are so we can get him back but if doesn't have any.. Where do we start to say, it's time to reduce the AI dose..? Does that make sense?

Thanks again, and yeah mega, they just came back in the room and said you have to give blood today. Lol

The part in bold sounds more like elevated estradiol, especially if they are still occurring after he gave blood. Anxiety and panic attacks are fairly common with high e2.

Most guys on TRT feel best between 20 - 50pg/ml. Try and shoot for that range and see how he feels, then adjust as necessary.

As far as the AI goes.. he may get away with not needing one (not everyone does.) For example, as long as I stay below 15% bodyfat I can get away without using an AI on TRT dose only. Most guys do but some of us are lucky. Reason I bring this up is because he only had an estradiol reading of 80pg/ml with a TT of 2K, which really isn't that high in comparison. When he drops down to the 600 - 1000ng/dl range where he should be, he might not need one.

He might even decide to opt for 600ng/dl because he can get away without an AI like that, or decide he wants 1000ng/dl but will have to use the AI. Depends on him and his doctor.

Assuming you skip next injection, I'd give it one more week on the adex then drop it completely. Wait four full weeks on that exact protocol (ALL doses stay the same - T, hCG, etc.) and pull bloods. He might get lucky and not need it, or it might be a little out of range. It will be lower though simply as a result of dropping the T dose -> less T to aromatase -> less e2.

This is all assuming of course that he wasn't using an AI at all on that 500mg dose. If he was, different story