Megatron28
Moderator
What do you consider to be "good carbs"?
not gaining any muscle?... Just fat?.. First Test E cycle 9 weeks in..
- Thread starter goingtowin
- Start date
What do you consider to be "good carbs"?
Southernfish
New member
What does your diet look like? How many grams of Protein per day are you eating? How many grams of Carbs per day are you eating? And, how many grams of Fat per day are you eating? Without knowing this you have no idea how many calories you are consuming and where they are coming from. And lets say that you are in fact eating enough calories, without a proper macronutrient breakdown you have no clue if what your consuming is correct in relation to your goals. Eating enough calories means nothing if the ratio between Pro:Carbs:Fat isn't correct for what you want to achieve.
If you do not know your macronutrient breakdown, what does a typical day of eating look like for you and do you eat the exact same amount of food each day? AND BE HONEST.
We are hereto help, so let us help you by providing us with information we can work with, so far we don't have that.
What about that blood work? What were your LH, FSH, and TT numbers?
If you do not know your macronutrient breakdown, what does a typical day of eating look like for you and do you eat the exact same amount of food each day? AND BE HONEST.
We are hereto help, so let us help you by providing us with information we can work with, so far we don't have that.
What about that blood work? What were your LH, FSH, and TT numbers?
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bigben66
New member
In my opinion, this is why you are not growing....
Five minute recovery times, five rep sets and 2 hour workouts are certainly not an environment where hypertrophy will be taking place and definitely not conducive to muscle growth.
Where is the intensity in that style of training!?
Jeez, that would also bore me shitless.
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soldier74
avi changes as i do
In my opinion, this is why you are not growing....
Five minute recovery times, five rep sets and 2 hour workouts are certainly not an environment where hypertrophy will be taking place and definitely not conducive to muscle growth.
Where is the intensity in that style of training!?
Jeez, that would also bore me shitless.
Don't worry about how it sounds coming out...just take the advise!! (Goingtowin)!
soldier74
avi changes as i do
Lol. I think it was Shredder that said, it could be a fricking powdered doughnut, a carb is a carb!! Lol
bigben66
New member
Which is a correct statement.... but if you want to be training optimally... you need to differentiate between good carbs which will enhance performance, offer good clean energy and not make you crash.. and shit carbs, which offer nothing in terms of performance output and physical functionality.
I'll elaborate....
Let's just say I'm bulking, and I'm aiming at 4500kcals per day. I've set my macro split at 40/40/20.
I'm aiming to consume about 1800kcals from carbs which equates to 450g carbs per day.
That is a lot of carbs to play with, and if I were to try and eat 450g of good clean carbs, not only would I be bored shitless, but I'd find it tough. So therefore it would make sense to search for the odd item that was more calorie dense to help me make my mark.
Because I am bulking, the extra fat, sugar and sodium etc won't do me much harm, and therefore my macros will be met.
Right, lets flip it round now and say I am running a calorific deficit to get tight for a vacation or a show.
I've set my intake to 2800kcals with the same ratio of 40/40/20 - so my target carb intake is 1120kcals which equates to 280g carbs.
So from being in a scenario where I had the luxury of 450g carbs to play around with - I am now faced with making 280g carbs last me the day.
I know that because I am running a calorific deficit my workout quality will suffer if I don't get carbs in the morning, so I instantly know I need to find not just any old shitty carb to get down my neck, I need a slow release clean unprocessed carb which is not only going to fuel my morning activity, but it needs to also get me through my lunchtime workout. So I opt for oatmeal, as I know this will tick all the boxes.
Some people are lucky, and can go carb-free during the morning - but not many - and certainly not many who want to be running optimally.
OK, so we've had some oatmeal for breakfast and already used up a chunk of our 280g of carbs... and now I'm starting to find that my workout starts ok but dips in the middle.... so I've had to resort to taking on board some carbs as I train to prolong intensity. Again, shitty carbs just aren't going to cut it, I need something that is going to digest fast and give me quick energy - so I opt for vitargo. This works a treat.
An hour after training, I know I need to digest a good quality meal with a decent split of carbs/protein and fats.... my options are a pizza which is laden with crap and takes up pretty much the rest of my daily allowance, or some sweet potato which I know will hit the spot, tick all the right boxes with regard to the glycemic index etc and still allow me the luxury of a few rice cakes late afternoon and some rice with my chicken or fish in the evening.
It's a no-brainer, I opt for the less calorie dense carb knowing I'm not going to be starving later with my macros all used up and nowhere to go other than the cookie jar!
CONCLUSION: Yes, a carb is a carb - but when you want to be parading that Ferrari along the beach in Maui this summer - I'd always opt for the carb that is going to provide optimum performance and keep the engine running all day!
Apologies for the rambling!
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soldier74
avi changes as i do
Which is a correct statement.... but if you want to be training optimally... you need to differentiate between good carbs which will enhance performance, offer good clean energy and not make you crash.. and shit carbs, which offer nothing in terms of performance output and physical functionality.
I'll elaborate....
Let's just say I'm bulking, and I'm aiming at 4500kcals per day. I've set my macro split at 40/40/20.
I'm aiming to consume about 1800kcals from carbs which equates to 450g carbs per day.
That is a lot of carbs to play with, and if I were to try and eat 450g of good clean carbs, not only would I be bored shitless, but I'd find it tough. So therefore it would make sense to search for the odd item that was more calorie dense to help me make my mark.
Because I am bulking, the extra fat, sugar and sodium etc won't do me much harm, and therefore my macros will be met.
Right, lets flip it round now and say I am running a calorific deficit to get tight for a vacation or a show.
I've set my intake to 2800kcals with the same ratio of 40/40/20 - so my target carb intake is 1120kcals which equates to 280g carbs.
So from being in a scenario where I had the luxury of 450g carbs to play around with - I am now faced with making 280g carbs last me the day.
I know that because I am running a calorific deficit my workout quality will suffer if I don't get carbs in the morning, so I instantly know I need to find not just any old shitty carb to get down my neck, I need a slow release clean unprocessed carb which is not only going to fuel my morning activity, but it needs to also get me through my lunchtime workout. So I opt for oatmeal, as I know this will tick all the boxes.
Some people are lucky, and can go carb-free during the morning - but not many - and certainly not many who want to be running optimally.
OK, so we've had some oatmeal for breakfast and already used up a chunk of our 280g of carbs... and now I'm starting to find that my workout starts ok but dips in the middle.... so I've had to resort to taking on board some carbs as I train to prolong intensity. Again, shitty carbs just aren't going to cut it, I need something that is going to digest fast and give me quick energy - so I opt for vitargo. This works a treat.
An hour after training, I know I need to digest a good quality meal with a decent split of carbs/protein and fats.... my options are a pizza which is laden with crap and takes up pretty much the rest of my daily allowance, or some sweet potato which I know will hit the spot, tick all the right boxes with regard to the glycemic index etc and still allow me the luxury of a few rice cakes late afternoon and some rice with my chicken or fish in the evening.
It's a no-brainer, I opt for the less calorie dense carb knowing I'm not going to be starving later with my macros all used up and nowhere to go other than the cookie jar!
CONCLUSION: Yes, a carb is a carb - but when you want to be parading that Ferrari along the beach in Maui this summer - I'd always opt for the carb that is going to provide optimum performance and keep the engine running all day!
Apologies for the rambling!
No apologies necessary sir!! U painted a pretty clear picture there my friend. Thanks!! I will definantly work these idears into my diet protocol. I love me some oatmeal too..lol:
I guess their going to miss me coming through Jolly Pirates! I can't say that, the kids would end up wondering what they did wrong not getting a dozen on Sunday mornings...lolSouthernfish
New member
In my opinion, this is why you are not growing....
Five minute recovery times, five rep sets and 2 hour workouts are certainly not an environment where hypertrophy will be taking place and definitely not conducive to muscle growth.
Where is the intensity in that style of training!?
Jeez, that would also bore me shitless.
x2
AverageMan
New member
Thanks Ben for the info. I've never heard of Vitargo. Googled it and may have to pick some up
Southernfish
New member
Vitargo its the cats meow fellas. Good points Ben boy!! I did say a carb is a carb, and a carb is a carb. But, I didn't not in a anyway mean that every choice is optimal. Every choice is doable, and will work but if were looking at optimizing performance then, for example, rice is going to be a much better choice then a bag of skittles
juced_porkchop
Moderator
i do NOT agree. muscle growth is heavy lb and min rep (5-8) 3x a week for mass. and each workout should be around 40min, go till failure IMO (what i do anyways and works great)... what you mention is for strength and endurance....
6 days a week is over kill and your not going to grow well..
juced_porkchop
Moderator
In my opinion, this is why you are not growing....
Five minute recovery times, five rep sets and 2 hour workouts are certainly not an environment where hypertrophy will be taking place and definitely not conducive to muscle growth.
Where is the intensity in that style of training!?
Jeez, that would also bore me shitless.
here is your issue then... 30sec - 1 min rest and heavy aggression and workouts should be MAX 1hr. and closer to 40min.
no wonder the guys not gaining muscle...
TrenMan1020
New member
Your meeting all the requirements for your diet but working out 5x5 is for strength and yor not going to get lean mass for that you need to be working out 5 times a week in the 8-12 reps 8 being minimum and make sure your sets are good and your taking 45 seconds-1 minute max between sets it does take a while to build to that 30 second rest period you want to be at
juced_porkchop
Moderator
hit each main body part 1-2x a week... eveyr workout is another set of muscles you focus on. you grow then you rest and heal, not in the gym. its a balance.
you really should be training for a few years and figuring all this out along with diet before using hormones IMO.
but atleast look over the advice in this thread now, and start implementing it.
diet: high protein, med carbs, med fats IMO
Southernfish
New member
I agree with the rest times and length of workouts. Although leg and back days could go a little longer.
OP, if you want to build muscle you do not want long drawn out workouts with lots of rest, you want short, intense workout where you PUNISH your muscles. Your muscles do not want to grow, you must make them grow, and to start that process you lay a beating to them, then feed them properly to recover. Lots of good info here, actually, all the info you really need is right here.
juced_porkchop
Moderator
less reps with heavy waights cause better growth/muscle damage. 5-8rep, and 4ish days a week max IMO.. i agree with rest time though.
Southernfish
New member
We still don't know if he is because he hasn't told us what his diet is other than its enough food. Which means nothing.
Roush
I am banned!
mind muscle connection .. sounds like your going through your 'strength' training routine and just going through the motions . thats not how you build muscle .
for what its worth , on my first cycle I put on 32 pounds (and maintained 12% bf) and I was doing a hypertrophy specific medium volume high intensity training method.
I've never trained for strength , I can care less what I bench press . In fact , I wish the weights didn't even have numbers on them to tell you how much they weigh, its all about tension on the muscle (and time under tension), your muscles have no clue how much weight your lifting , they just need the right amount of stimulation-- intensity and tension. ** unless your wanting to get stronger for a sport or something , but for hypertrophy a strength program is not the best imo
for what its worth , on my first cycle I put on 32 pounds (and maintained 12% bf) and I was doing a hypertrophy specific medium volume high intensity training method.
I've never trained for strength , I can care less what I bench press . In fact , I wish the weights didn't even have numbers on them to tell you how much they weigh, its all about tension on the muscle (and time under tension), your muscles have no clue how much weight your lifting , they just need the right amount of stimulation-- intensity and tension. ** unless your wanting to get stronger for a sport or something , but for hypertrophy a strength program is not the best imo
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electricred
Member
You are on a beginner program that doesn't promote as much growth. I'm a powerlifter and have spent most of my training time in the ballpark of 5 rep sets. Even now as I'm switching to a more size-focused style of training, I keep my competition lifts in the 3-6 rep range. I have cycled while doing these programs and gained size, but it's not always something you notice in the mirror. ICF is not a balanced program, it's like every other beginner 5x5 with some arms and other small lifts added, but does not have enough compounds in the higher rep ranges to really grow on. It will work for beginners.
Since you are a beginner I'm going to assume you're on a lenient diet protocol such as IIFYM. If so, you should've had that done before you ever pinned. Those diets are bullshit despite whatever the skinny twerps on BB.com tell you. Get on a high calories diet based on whole, CLEAN foods. Use logic in approach to your diet and eat like a lion if you want to look like a lion.
You shouldn't have cycled yet because you aren't going to get the most from the experience, you weren't educated enough before starting. But, I did the same thing and ignored anyone who told me otherwise. Just start eating write and hit the gym even harder. My first test only cycle didn't really blow up until the last month. I gained 9 pounds around week 8. I gained almost 20 by the time PCT came, and that was on 5x5. I don't know what you're expecting 25+ pounds though, that's rare for a test only cycle for a first timer if you look through the information on here and other boards.
Since you are a beginner I'm going to assume you're on a lenient diet protocol such as IIFYM. If so, you should've had that done before you ever pinned. Those diets are bullshit despite whatever the skinny twerps on BB.com tell you. Get on a high calories diet based on whole, CLEAN foods. Use logic in approach to your diet and eat like a lion if you want to look like a lion.
You shouldn't have cycled yet because you aren't going to get the most from the experience, you weren't educated enough before starting. But, I did the same thing and ignored anyone who told me otherwise. Just start eating write and hit the gym even harder. My first test only cycle didn't really blow up until the last month. I gained 9 pounds around week 8. I gained almost 20 by the time PCT came, and that was on 5x5. I don't know what you're expecting 25+ pounds though, that's rare for a test only cycle for a first timer if you look through the information on here and other boards.
