Opinions and experience? I'm stuck

[Pantalones]

Recently I've been losing weight, strength, size, and my appetite's been on existant. This all started about 8 months ago when I started testosterone cyp injections. Two years ago I was put on androgel after having low T for a year and a half or so. The androgel did wonders, and I gained 40 plus pounds of lean mass and felt great, appetite was crazy. I had to stop the gels because they stopped absorbing, and switched to injections 8 months ago. My levels on androgel were around 1,000 +/- 200 ng/dL, as were my levels on testosterone injections for a good 4 months. The strange thing is that there are very distinct differences between the two forms of TRT and what they have done for me.
On the gels:
+40 lbs gained
+crazy increases in lifts
+crazy sex drive
+fuller face
+less fat

On the shots:
-weight loss
-strength loss
-sex drive is still there, not great
-skinnier face
-more fat

Now yeah I'm thinking what the hell could account for this? I've got literally identical amounts of T, free T and SHBG as before and thyroid is in check (labs recent, done last Thursday):
E2: 11 pg/mL
Total test: 905 ng/dL
Free test: 210 (50-247)
SHBG: 31 (16-74)
Literally everything checks out, labs are even better than when I was doing amazing on androgel, and yet I'm seeing no results.

I've talked to a few other guys who say this can be a problem, and I'm honestly just going to experiment and switch out the cyp for enth for a few months, just to see what's going on. I feel like I've got all that testosterone but something's not allowing me to utilize it, and seeing as no one seems to know if the testosterone shown in blood results is attached to the ester still or not, its anyones guess as to whether or not it still is. Fuck, is it crazy? Maybe, but what other reason would there be?

 

[SolomonGrundy]

my experience with the two is the gels(androgel, testim) converted to DHT and i was way more sexual, but some (fortesta) converted to estrogen and made me weepy with a 900 test score. full face may mean water retention and body fat all usually equal higher estrogen but strength and muscle sounds like DHT

good plan may be shots bi weekly with gel the night before next shot

 

[Brizza60]

How many days after injection was that bloodwork taken? Also it seems your E2 might be to low which would cause some of the sides you are getting.

 

[Pantalones]

How many days after injection was that bloodwork taken? Also it seems your E2 might be to low which would cause some of the sides you are getting.

This was three days after BW, and I don't think the E2 would cause this extent of symptoms, especially since I usually don't use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and I only did that week to see what it'd do the the BW. You think its worth trying enth?

 

[Megatron28]

Have you looked at other possibilities? I hate to say it, but things like HIV, anemia, cancer, etc? It may not be TRT related. Are you positive it all started at the exact same time as when you switched from gels to injections?

 

[Brizza60]

So that BW was done 3 days after injection? Your levels seem good if so. Id cut down the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage abit even though you say its not causing your symtoms. You could try enth but test e and c are almost the exact same thing. Keep us updated imn interested to see what you find the problem is.

 

[Pantalones]

Have you looked at other possibilities? I hate to say it, but things like HIV, anemia, cancer, etc? It may not be TRT related. Are you positive it all started at the exact same time as when you switched from gels to injections?

Honestly, it started toward the end of the gels, but continued into shots..so it may be unrelated. I don't think it'd be HIV/hepatitis or anything that would show up before they give someone your blood because I've given blood three times now and they always call me back for more. They have to tell you right? And they do test blood for those things obviously. I'm assuming they wouldn't call me back if I had something wrong. Thyroids good, metabolic panels good..I don't know exactly what would indicate cancer. Hard to say though. I'm so confused.

 

[Pantalones]

So that BW was done 3 days after injection? Your levels seem good if so. Id cut down the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dosage abit even though you say its not causing your symtoms. You could try enth but test e and c are almost the exact same thing. Keep us updated imn interested to see what you find the problem is.

Maybe try prop as the carbons are something like 3 rather than 7 and 8? I don't know anymore.

 

[300winmag]

Your E may still be to low may try boosting that a little bit. I have heard of peoples bodys in a sense getting use to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), maybe that is it. But maybe its other factors in your life such as diet, sleep, other medicines etc. But it may be worthwhile to get checked for things like hepatitis, cancer, HIV, and or maybe you just have andrenal fatigue.

It also maybe your expectations TRT is there to get you back where you are supposed to be, your not going to continually see exponential gains. If that is what you are looking for you may have to switch over to cycling if you wish to maintain certain gains.

 

[Gorgeliftsalot]

Honestly, it started toward the end of the gels, but continued into shots..so it may be unrelated. I don't think it'd be HIV/hepatitis or anything that would show up before they give someone your blood because I've given blood three times now and they always call me back for more. They have to tell you right? And they do test blood for those things obviously. I'm assuming they wouldn't call me back if I had something wrong. Thyroids good, metabolic panels good..I don't know exactly what would indicate cancer. Hard to say though. I'm so confused.

they don't test your for everything... you have to ask for an STD blood test. maybe along with your other tests?
I don't know much about Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) or cycles but I know they do not just test you for everything under the sun when your going in for one reason.
ask for a test and be safe

 

[300winmag]

mono can be long term as well.

 

[Megatron28]

Tape worm?

 

[Pantalones]

Sweet Jesus guys, lol. If I'm not a hypochondriac after this..I don't know. I'm kidding, but these are the recent labs

Chloride: (104 96-108)
Morning,

Be more specific for me. 81 is not abnormal for glucose. All are different. Testing was fasting so it's fine.


CO2: 31 (23-32)
Protein Serum: 7.5 (6.4-8.2)
Albumin: 4.9 (3.7-5.0)


Testosterone, Total: 1,035 ng/dL
Free T: 240 (50-247)
SHBG: 31 (16-74)
Albumin 4.9 (3.7-5.0)

Iron: 177 (40-200)
Total Iron bonding: 349 (200-375)
% iron saturated: 51 (20-58)


Thyroid:
Free T4: 1.0
TSH 1.23

Glucose: 81 (random)
(all other comp metabolic normal)

WBC all good
RBC good again

If I had a tapeworm, I'm assuming my iron would be low and I'd be hungry all the time? I don't know. But I'm pretty sure Lifeserve does a full inspection of the blood. If they didn't, they're asses would be in a lot of trouble when something inevitably went wrong. At this point, I don't even believe AIDS could be a possibility. I've been a serial monogamist for as long as I can remember, and I've never banged a slut. Mono could potentially be fucking with me? To this extent? Maybe 300's right, and I just need to cycle to get what I want and try to keep the gains I get from it. I'm not worried about my HPTA because that ship has sailed, and I'm on TRT. I've always been interested in giving tren a try. I don't understand the mechanism behind someone's body getting "use to TRT" though

 

[Brizza60]

Not sure but your t4/tsh look very low and I would get your T3 checked. Ive been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for awhile now and I just recently found out last week i have hypothyroidism.

 

[Pantalones]

You think my t4 and t3 are bad? The range for t4 is .8-1.6

 

[Brizza60]

Oh ok then your t4 and tsh looks alright but did you get your t3 checked?

 

[Pantalones]

Ill agree although it's within range, my t4s a little on the low end.would you mind sharing your labs for thyroid?

 

[JMEALS]

Im shocked you did better on the gel as opposed to the injections..I found androgel useless when i used it years ago...Most do better on the ijections..theres not a whole lot of differance if any between cyp and enthanate..but most cyp is 200mg/ml and enthanate is 250mg/ml....so try switching the xtra 50mg may be benificial towards you..give it a while longer before you start dignosing yourself with these life threatning dieseses my friend..

 

[Pantalones]

Im shocked you did better on the gel as opposed to the injections..I found androgel useless when i used it years ago...Most do better on the ijections..theres not a whole lot of differance if any between cyp and enthanate..but most cyp is 200mg/ml and enthanate is 250mg/ml....so try switching the xtra 50mg may be benificial towards you..give it a while longer before you start dignosing yourself with these life threatning dieseses my friend..

Thanks JMEALS, this has been going on for a year though so I'm starting to think the worst lol. I think I just need to switch compounds up for awhile, try something a lot more potent, and see what happens. My thyroid does look a little sluggish tough, and I've read that supraphysiologic levels of testosterone for too long can interfere with thyroid function in some people. I really need to get a free T3 done, which means another trip to the doc. It would make sense though, the loss of appetite, slight increase in body fat, and I'm sure the thyroid plays a role in muscle growth directly or indirectly. Worth getting checked out, but yeah..if it were HIV or cancer I feel there would be more tell tale signs and symptoms by now.

 

[lakers0812]

I've talked to a few other guys who say this can be a problem, and I'm honestly just going to experiment and switch out the cyp for enth for a few months, just to see what's going on. I feel like I've got all that testosterone but something's not allowing me to utilize it, and seeing as no one seems to know if the testosterone shown in blood results is attached to the ester still or not, its anyones guess as to whether or not it still is. Fuck, is it crazy? Maybe, but what other reason would there be?

I may be in the exact same boat as you. I never started on the androgel though. I went straight to injections and have experimented with different doses (higher, lower, split, etc). I have never used test-cyp though (only test-e). I'm currently running test-e 100 mg/week split in 2 doses mon and thurs with .25mg of adex twice a week. Since I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I couldn't gain any size, strength, and I would never be sore after workouts. I got blood work done, and like you everything turned out normal, actually excellent (Im a healthy male). I too got concerned about other diseases like HIV, lyme disease, diabetes, stds, you name it I got it checked so chances are it is unlikely you have any diseases if you are sure about it.

While on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), I feel amazing. My libido is good, mental clarity, mood has improved, etc. The only issue is that I can't put on ANY muscle no matter what. Now, here is the weird thing. Months ago I started feeling like crap so I got my BW done. Eveything came out normal except estradiol which was 117. I got on adex and almost immediately started feeling better. After 3 days of adex I was feeling like the king of the world and I was putting on muscle and being sore after workouts. I kept on with that same adex dose (bad decision) and my estro got too low FOR ME. It was at 38 when I got it tested. Just a few days before I was feeling great then one night after taking adex I started feeling terrible so I got bw. I don't know what my e2 has to be but I believe that my body is more sensitive to changes in it than most people. Most people feel fine b/w 20-28 (not me). I dont know what my e2 has to be but I know that before it was lowered to 38, there was a level above that which allowed me to get the full benefits of trt. When people cycle their e2 can easily fluctuate, yet they still can make gains in the gym. If my e2 isn't perfect I can't make any gains or even experience muscle soreness after. I'm going through the same thing as you and even off testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) my body can make better gains than while on it (with lower test).