Oral Anabolic Steroid cycles

good point.

but my thinking is that there has to be a line in which the benefit to side effect ratio starts to spill over.

i think you would agree that 100mgs of dbol a day will cause many more sides then 1mg per day. my question is, how about 5mgs per day, 10mgs, 20mgs etc..

will 5mgs shut you down at all? then again will it have any benefit? there has to be a dose where the benefit is stronger then the negative.

the guys from the late 50's and 60's come to mind. the dose back then was 5mgs per day and they loved it!!

its just the way my mind works, always trying to get maximum from the minimum.

didnt mean to come in here and argue with you bro, i got nothing but respect for you and i have actually enjoyed the debate. doesnt have to be a negative thing. :)

weve known each other to hold a grudge but i was pissed for a minute lol.

IMO even if you ran a test and found the exact amount of a oral to take that number would change over time and would vary from person to person.
to me being on cycle is like being pregnant , your either pregnant/on cycle or not .
 
i will tell ya why i even bring it up.

couple of months ago everyone told me IGF-lr3 will not last more then a few days in BAC water and that it must be stored in AA to survive. something about that just didnt seem right to me so i decided to run a little experiment and store my igf-lr3 in BAC only. ran the IGF-lr3 until it was empty a month later and had amazing results. all the bro science on the forums that said igf-lr3 will die in BAC water were simply wrong. ever since then i have been on a quest to sort of run experiments against the conventional wisdom on the boards on certain things that dont make sense to me or that i question. the igf was one of them and now its this dbol thing. i just so happen to have 27 50mg dbol left from last cycle. was thinking of just running 25mgs of dbol once per day on workout days only (5 days a week) and noting the results. i am just wondering what the magic line might be or if there even is one where results will be better then negatives.
 
i will tell ya why i even bring it up.

couple of months ago everyone told me IGF-lr3 will not last more then a few days in BAC water and that it must be stored in AA to survive. something about that just didnt seem right to me so i decided to run a little experiment and store my igf-lr3 in BAC only. ran the IGF-lr3 until it was empty a month later and had amazing results. all the bro science on the forums that said igf-lr3 will die in BAC water were simply wrong. ever since then i have been on a quest to sort of run experiments against the conventional wisdom on the boards on certain things that dont make sense to me or that i question. the igf was one of them and now its this dbol thing. i just so happen to have 27 50mg dbol left from last cycle. was thinking of just running 25mgs of dbol once per day on workout days only (5 days a week) and noting the results. i am just wondering what the magic line might be or if there even is one where results will be better then negatives.

problem with homemade/underground pills and capsules is who knows how many mg will be in each half , most is filler and all of the active ingredient could be in either side ? who knows.
 
sup DADAWG! i was looking into injection spots, DELT, THIGH, BICEP. USING TEST E 500MG/WK. MY QUESTION IS SHOULD I LOOK INTO MORE SPOTS LIKE PEC, CALF, TRAP FOR BEST RESULTS?
 
sup DADAWG! i was looking into injection spots, DELT, THIGH, BICEP. USING TEST E 500MG/WK. MY QUESTION IS SHOULD I LOOK INTO MORE SPOTS LIKE PEC, CALF, TRAP FOR BEST RESULTS?

stick to the basics imo unless your on a monster cycle and need more sites.
 
yes but there is a certain dosage level in comparison to how hard you are shut down.

for example, 25mgs of dbol per day will not shut you down as hard as say 50mgs per day etc..

"In a study done in the early 80***8217;s, a very high dose of Dbol (100mgs/day for 6 weeks) decreased plasma testosterone to about 40% of it***8217;s normal value, plasma GH went up about a third, LH dropped to about 80% of it***8217;s original value, and FSH went down about a third"

as you can see above, 100mgs per day (very high dose) did not completely shut the subjects down. something like 25mgs per day should in theory and based on the study have only a very small effect on shutdown.

I would like to see this study, there is no way you can gauge the level of shut-down by TT levels. did it include free T? did it affect GNRHR? were the LH and FSH levels measure by urine sample or by blood sample? how long was this for? im sure I can think of more i would be curious to know.

when were the levels measured in comparison to the dosage of dbol?

my biggest concern would be that dbol administration does not affect SHBG like androgen therapy does, which would be the most prevelant in this argument.

let me be clear im not trying to start a pissing match, but these things would be important to me before i decided if it had value, just saying those are the things I would be curious about.

Im gonna go look for it myself.
 
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here is an interesting abstract. Mostly though other than this and the one you have to pay, they are all on rats.

Description is given of six body-builders who had been taking Methandrostenolone (up to 20 mg/day in intermittent courses for a year or more). At the time of examination there was no subjective disturbance of sexual function, but testosterone levels were low relative to laboratory standards and luteinizing hormone levels were also reduced - particularly in relation to testosterone concentrations. Abnormal liver function tests were seen in three of the six subjects, and one had mild diabetes with high serum cholesterol, triglycerides and uric acid. The weight gain of the group was not outstanding, and the only possible finding was a high haemoglobin and haematocrit in one of the six subjects.

Responses to sustained use of anabolic steroid. -- Shephard et al. 11 (4): 170 -- British Journal of Sports Medicine

Here is a post from Dr. Scally on Dbol suppression, I know I quote him alot, but what can I say the man knows his stuff:

HPTA and Dianabol

Dianabol adversely affects the HPTA. There is a lot of commentary, both in posts and websites, that dianabol does not adversely affect the HPTA. It is difficult, more like impossible, to find support for this in the peer reviewed literature. Additionally, personal experience on testing of the HPTA from individuals using dianabol shows consistently and uniformly HPTA suppression.

One website cites a study on the effects of rat methandrostenolone (dianabol) on the estrous cycle as proof that there is little HPTA effect.

[Blasberg ME, Langan CJ, Clark AS. The effects of 17 alpha-methyltestosterone, methandrostenolone, and nandrolone decanoate on the rat estrous cycle. Physiol Behav 1997;61:265-72.]

Initial impression should make one cautious since the study is on females, not males. This alone is a stretch. Rat studies and human studies have some factors in common but quite a bit more that are not common. Regardless, extrapolating from rat to human is a mistake. The authors of the above study have a number of publications dealing with sexual behavior in rats during AAS administration. Almost all of these studies are on rat sexual behavior and not on HPTA effects. It is even more hazardous to translate from animal sexual behavior, complex in itself, to a supposed HPTA effect in humans.

Many of the results are all over the board and a conclusion that dianabol has little HPTA effect appears to misinterpret and misrepresent their studies as well as select studies to meet their conclusions.

For example, in the study cited above that dianabol has little HPTA effect, the authors, in fact, conclude, "The short-term administration of AAS compounds at levels commonly used by humans disrupts female neuroendocrine function in a dose-dependent manner."

In one study where testosterone levels are measured, there is the investigation of AAS on the sexual behavior of intact male rats.

[Clark AS, Harrold EV, Fast AS. Anabolic-androgenic steroid effects on the sexual behavior of intact male rats. Horm Behav 1997;31:35-46.]

The six AAS compounds analyzed in this study were 17alpha-methyltestosterone, methandrostenolone (dianabol), nandrolone decanoate, stanozolol, oxymetholone, and testosterone cypionate.

Twelve weeks of administration of the high dose of three AAS compounds, 17alpha-methyltestosterone, stanozolol, and oxymetholone eliminated male sexual behavior. These treatments also suppressed serum testosterone levels. The remaining compounds had minimal effects on sexual behavior at any dose.

Although the abstract is confusing for whether all of the AAS treatments suppressed serum testosterone levels or only 17alpha-methyltestosterone, stanozolol, and oxymetholone, the translation to humans is not possible. If all compounds suppressed testosterone this is contrary to the commonly held belief that dianabol does not suppress the HPTA. However, if one believes that only 17alpha-methyltestosterone, stanozolol, and oxymetholone suppress testosterone, thus, supporting the belief that dianabol does not affect the HPTA, than where does nandrolone decanoate fit into this picture? There is no doubt that nandrolone suppresses the HPTA.

Finally, a case study from 1977 describes findings on the use of dianabol (up to 20 mg/day in intermittent courses for a year or more). These are the following: At the time of examination there was no subjective disturbance of sexual function, but testosterone levels were low relative to laboratory standards and luteinizing hormone levels were also reduced - particularly in relation to testosterone concentrations. Abnormal liver function tests were seen in three of the six subjects, and one had mild diabetes with high serum cholesterol, triglycerides and uric acid. The weight gain of the group was not outstanding, and the only possible finding was a high hemoglobin and hematocrit in one of the six subjects.

[Shephard RJ, Killinger D, Fried T. Responses to sustained use of anabolic steroid. Br J Sports Med 1977;11:170-3.]

Bottom line: Dianabol adversely affects the HPTA.

Thank you.

^^^^ thats what I can find for now.
 
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anyone with " real world " experience know that a cycle of any steroid will shut you down at least partially . and for ant study out thee some other egghead has made a study that contradicts the 1st study.
 
Retarded post.

Nothing wrong with oral only cycles.

Provide empirical evidence showing me "oral only" cycles are so bad?
2 things
High liver toxicity and no Testo ***953;***957; our system,these 2 reasons are more than enough i believe.

Not for me
 
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anyone with " real world " experience know that a cycle of any steroid will shut you down at least partially . and for ant study out thee some other egghead has made a study that contradicts the 1st study.

Agreed,i've experienced that with my 2nd cycle 10 years ago
 
yes but there is a certain dosage level in comparison to how hard you are shut down.

for example, 25mgs of dbol per day will not shut you down as hard as say 50mgs per day etc..

"In a study done in the early 80’s, a very high dose of Dbol (100mgs/day for 6 weeks) decreased plasma testosterone to about 40% of it’s normal value, plasma GH went up about a third, LH dropped to about 80% of it’s original value, and FSH went down about a third"

as you can see above, 100mgs per day (very high dose) did not completely shut the subjects down. something like 25mgs per day should in theory and based on the study have only a very small effect on shutdown.

I can only agree to that I just finished a cycle of 6 weeks on 70-80 mg dbol daily. And my sex drive was back to absolute normal in 2 weeks. :devil:
 
wow now im a religeous nut lol.


bouncer as ive said im pretty dissapointed in you , i expected better but it is what it is. i trust what ive seen with my own personnal eyes more than a 30 year old study that was iffy at best.
but i guess if you could find a study that said that board owners were all gay you would buy a tutu :spin:

"FALL IN SOLDIER!! SE FUEHRER HAS SPOKEN! The truth is no good. Jesus we cant expect the stupid masses to process actual information other than my unfounded dbol hate babble!!"
 
its spring and every day it seems like i read another oral only thread on 1 board or another , dbol only appears to be the favorite sure fire method to look good for spring break.

1st off i would like to say that theres is nothing wrong with dbol , it definately has its place . The same goes for Anavar (var) , drol , halo , tbol , etc. .

Heres the problem with oral only cycles . The average man needs 100-200 mg a week of injected test if hes on hormone replacement therapy . If you start using steroids your natural test will shut down , even on Anavar (var) so you will lose the benefit of the test when you cycle.that means you will have to take in that much steroids just to break even.on top of that when you come of that oral / dbol you will be shut down and will take several weeks to recover so you will lose there as well.

Thats not a problem on injectable cycles because you will be taking anywhere from 2-5 times as much hormones or more than your body naturally produces . You can not do that using just oral steroids. the health effects of massive oral cycles make running them just plain stupid and dangerous.
agreed!
 
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