Posterior deltoid pain- chest day

[Roush]

I'm currently doing a high volume, light weight, hi rep, routine.. I've noticed that on chest day and when lifting to failure, my posterior delts seem to fail first (also seem to be always sore and kinda a deep pain in the muscle back of shoulder)..

In the past I've had this happen from doing heavy bench press,, but I'm not doing this,, heck even with light weight cable fly's (15 reps),, my rear delt starts burning and fails before my chest does.. I'm definitely using the mind muscle connection and I'm focusing on the chest, keeping it squeezed and contracted the whole time under tension. But it kinda sucks that going to failure is because of the rear delt failing and not my chest .

Anyone have similar issues,, suggestions ?

Note: I do not do shoulder day or back day before chest day (so going into chest day my shoulders are always fresh for the most part,, except for that damn posterior delt)

 

[halfwit]

Rear delts get grumpy from the negative portion of cable flies/crossovers. I get this too as I really try to focus on form and keeping the stack from slamming down. You can try different angles to see if that helps, but I personally just stopped training rear delts as much on shoulder day as they're already slightly fatigued.

My .02c

 

[Roush]

About a year ago I quit training shoulders all together for awhile- they were always sore,, and they were more developed** then the rest of my body (figured I could rest them and have the other body parts catch up,, but those damn rear delts still got sore from chest day).

** wonder if this proves that more time under tension, almost towards "over training" is best for growth.. Again, shoulders were always sore and always getting worked,, and they grew the fastest.

 

[halfwit]

About a year ago I quit training shoulders all together for awhile- they were always sore,, and they were more developed** then the rest of my body (figured I could rest them and have the other body parts catch up,, but those damn rear delts still got sore from chest day).

** wonder if this proves that more time under tension, almost towards "over training" is best for growth.. Again, shoulders were always sore and always getting worked,, and they grew the fastest.

Yep, mine are sore constantly unless I'm on a cycle. It's amazing how many exercises use the delts that we don't even think of. I hurt my right delt (FINALLY find out today wtf I did), and have found that there are just a ton of exercises that I cannot do right now, or have to seriously reduce the weight. Tough, but finicky little muscle group!

 

[Southernfish]

How are you shoulders positioned when performing chest exercises Roush (presses and flys the same)?

You should ALWAYS have them pinched back and down, and be mindful throughout the set to not let them come out of this po sition. If they do, the weight is most likely too heavy and your body will naturally come out of this position and recruit more delt and tricep to make the exercise easier.

I dont thinks weights are too heavy as you stated you are training fairly light with high reps but this is what came to mind when I initially read your post.

 

[Southernfish]

I used to have terrible shoulder, pain wise. Then I read on proper positioning of shoulders during chest exercises and I havent had an issue since.

 

[halfwit]

I used to have terrible shoulder, pain wise. Then I read on proper positioning of shoulders during chest exercises and I havent had an issue since.

Reverse grip chest press is now my best friend. I do agree though, many do use improper form, or go too far down - causing rotation of the delt as the elbows pass the back. Good point!

 

[Southernfish]

Reverse grip chest press is now my best friend. I do agree though, many do use improper form, or go too far down - causing rotation of the delt as the elbows pass the back. Good point!

Ya good call. Im not saying he is going too far down but A LOT of people do and not only for chest, for everything. People get confused when they hear full range of motion, it not how far you can physically travel through the movement it how far the MUSCLE wants to travel. How far you arms travel has nothing to do with it.

And Roush, I am in now way saying this is what youre doing, but since we got on the topic I figure Id throw it out there, maybe someone new will learn something from it.

 

[Roush]

I'll have to be more mindful of where my shoulders are positioned next time I do chest, maybe even film myself so I can see for sure. Feels like I keep them positioned back and my shoulder blades a pulled a little bit tighter together.

I've added guillotine presses to the mix to help with upper chest while taking tris and shoulders outta the move.. Now I just Need to add reverse grip presses

 

[Roush]

I'll have to be more mindful of where my shoulders are positioned next time I do chest, maybe even film myself so I can see for sure. Feels like I keep them positioned back and my shoulder blades a pulled a little bit tighter together.

I've added guillotine presses to the mix to help with upper chest while taking tris and shoulders outta the move.. Now I just Need to add reverse grip presses

 

[halfwit]

I'll have to be more mindful of where my shoulders are positioned next time I do chest, maybe even film myself so I can see for sure. Feels like I keep them positioned back and my shoulder blades a pulled a little bit tighter together.

I've added guillotine presses to the mix to help with upper chest while taking tris and shoulders outta the move.. Now I just Need to add reverse grip presses

Whoa... I just literally added guillotine presses myself, hoping to take the shoulders even more out of the equation. What a coinkydink!

 

[Roush]

Yep I added them a few weeks back,, makes for a nice stretch and contraction of the upper pec.. Feels like an effective exercise and u can get a lot outta it even going really light (at least for me)..

First time I did them was the first time I worked out with my wife in awhile.. Last time we did chest she helped me load up 4-45s and two 25s,, well this time we loaded up 4 10lb plates, that's it.. She laughed and was like, what your joking right (that's what she usually warms up with),, nope no joke honey,, then proceeded to do guillotine presses, 10 sets 20 reps (gvt style),, and was sore as heck next day

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Its very difficult to identify why your rear delts are failing first unless you take a video so we can identify any issues with form.
Though I will mention that training to failure will have a similar effect as training heavy - so if you made the switch thinking it would reduce the likelihood of your rear delts failing first, it wont.

Also...

** wonder if this proves that more time under tension, almost towards "over training" is best for growth.. Again, shoulders were always sore and always getting worked,, and they grew the fastest.

Soreness has very little correlation with growth.
Most guys who get sore constantly grow poorly, yet guys who are rarely sore seem to grow very well IME.
Then you have the fact that some muscle groups never get sore but seem to grow nicely regardless.
On cycle, almost everyone finds that their shoulders grow the fastest and this has more to do with the density of AR receptors present in that area, not due to constant soreness per se

 

[Roush]

Its very difficult to identify why your rear delts are failing first unless you take a video so we can identify any issues with form.
Though I will mention that training to failure will have a similar effect as training heavy - so if you made the switch thinking it would reduce the likelihood of your rear delts failing first, it wont.

Also...


Soreness has very little correlation with growth.
Most guys who get sore constantly grow poorly, yet guys who are rarely sore seem to grow very well IME.
Then you have the fact that some muscle groups never get sore but seem to grow nicely regardless.
On cycle, almost everyone finds that their shoulders grow the fastest and this has more to do with the density of AR receptors present in that area, not due to constant soreness per se

Good points- I'll def keep training to failure limited.. What occasionally happens is if say I'm doing German volume training - say I pick a weight then shoot for 10 sets of say 15 reps,, then say I'm hitting 15 reps no prob, but say on the last couple sets I'm pretty much failing close to that 15 rep mark.. Should I lighten the weight at that point so as not to fail?

And again it sucks when it happens to be the rear delts that fail before the chest does,, which makes every thing even worse for the rear delts cause now they are getting trained to failure when I don't even want them to.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Good points- I'll def keep training to failure limited.. What occasionally happens is if say I'm doing German volume training - say I pick a weight then shoot for 10 sets of say 15 reps,, then say I'm hitting 15 reps no prob, but say on the last couple sets I'm pretty much failing close to that 15 rep mark.. Should I lighten the weight at that point so as not to fail?

You should lighten the weight.
Interestingly, the ORIGINAL german volume training had guys do 10x10 with a weight equal to a 10RM, then gradually back off the weight as fatigued occurred in subsequent sets in order to maintain the same amount of reps. In other words, your supposed to lighten the weights in order to keep hitting 10 reps in all sets.

 

[Roush]

You should lighten the weight.
Interestingly, the ORIGINAL german volume training had guys do 10x10 with a weight equal to a 10RM, then gradually back off the weight as fatigued occurred in subsequent sets in order to maintain the same amount of reps. In other words, your supposed to lighten the weights in order to keep hitting 10 reps in all sets.

Perfect, thanks .. I'm prob just going to failure to often and straining.
I'll still need to shoot some form film

 

[Roush]

I think I'm on to something here--
My left side rear delt is what mainly bothers me.. Especially when doing barbell presses, where both shoulders have to move in the same motion.
Well I was in a motorcycle accident years ago and broke my left shoulder and separated it from the collar bone, my left arm is now longer then the right.... I'm sure the movement in my left shoulder is way different then the movement in my right shoulder, and when doing barbell presses I'm making them move in unison, thus causing my left shoulder to be moved in a bad way.

I will prob try doing only dumbbell work for now being each shoulder can move independently in its own natural way.

 

[Tbills02]

I have separated bothmy shoulders and have had the exact same pain. Doing band work for my rotators cuff like a baseball pitcher would do has helped build my stabilizer muscle up and have helped to combat the pain a lot. When you seperate your shoulder you do a lot of damage to those stabilizers and it took me a long time to get back 100% in the gym because you have to rebuild them up even after healthy to be able to handle the weight your larger muscle do. Also one other exercise to help even though it hurts like hell is to take a broom handle and start in front of you go over your head and all the way down to your ass with your arms straight. Do this about 15 times and the pump in your shoulder is down right painful. As you get better at it you'll be able to move your hands in closer. Do about three sets before you go to bed at night along with that band work before you lift and you'll be back to 100% in a couple months. If you don't understand the exercise tell me I'll try to find a you tube video for you. Best of luck. Weoght isn't everything remember to concentrate on the negative phase.