Question about the way esters act...

arby

arby

Frank Zane
this is a crazy little question for all you mad scientists here at steroidology...
when a compound is esterified and administered, does the attached ester break down separately from the original compound (case 1) or along with it? (case 2)

the reason i ask... is that if you inject, say, 500mg of enan and that has a 10.5 day half life, then that means it will also take 10.5 days to build up. except in case 1 it would be breaking down as it builds up, and you would have 250mg at that point; in case 2 you would actually have the 500mg.

what do you think? :help: :nerd:
 
The halflife of the ester means that at the specified time that is considered the halflife (example 10.5 days), is the point at which half the conpound has been released. To answer your question half of the 500mg would have been released at the point of its halflife.
 
I've read that entire forum. I must say it's an amazing resource!!! But my question was more specific, if somewhat unclear.

I understand that half the compound would be released from the ester at that point, but it also decays as it enters the blood. I'm not sure what the implications of that are, but I believe it's likely that the peak from the very first injection of 500mg will result at its half life, but that peak will only be 250mg.

The reason I bring this up is because of this article.
 
Check out the phenylprop ester...as you can see...its peak is at about 30, then drops to 15 @ about the 4.5 day mark. This would be the half life. The actual is peak is 24 hours after the injection though.

BTW this is most accurate graph I've seen. Many ppl make graphs based on their own equations and half lives. Scientists drew blood after injections to creat this. As far as I know, its the only one of its kind and the whole study is known as the "minto study."
 
There is also much more to notice with this. Notice that 1cc of deca yields higher blood levels than the equivalent amount in of deca in 4 mls of oil. Also, notice that 1cc in the glute resulted in twice the peak compared to 1cc in the deltoid. I keep trying to stress glute injections and this is why...
 
OH one last thing...I promise...the half life of enan is between 5-7 days...10.5 days was derived from the old "1.5 x amount of carbons attached" rule...according to that rule, prop would be 4.5 days, deca would be 15, etc...this is not accurate
 
ready2explode said:
Also, notice that 1cc in the glute resulted in twice the peak compared to 1cc in the deltoid. I keep trying to stress glute injections and this is why...
Click to expand...

That is very interesting indeed. I would be real interested to see that study in it's entirety.
 
So when using an ester such as enanthate what would the dosage schedule look like in order to keep blood levels peaked at all times?
 
Popular belief is to shoot half the half life...example: enanthate's half live is5-7 days, so shoot every 2.5 to 3.5 days (every 3 days to make it easy)
 
Anyone else notice in that chart that 100mg of deca shut down natural testosterone production to nearly zero in *2 days*.
 
ready2explode said:
This will answer ur question!
Click to expand...

Thank you!!! That is beyond a doubt the most useful info I have ever seen on the subject. It's amazing how it totally contradicts all the math people do with half-lives.

What's weird is how people report the long-acting esters taking 4 weeks to kick in despite their being almost immediately available in the blood (according to the graph.) I always thought that the math and graphing in the article I linked was a pretty good explanation for that, but I guess it's something else. Can you hazard a guess as to why this is?
 
arby said:
Thank you!!! That is beyond a doubt the most useful info I have ever seen on the subject. It's amazing how it totally contradicts all the math people do with half-lives.
Click to expand...
Thanx :D I'm glad I could help :D

arby said:
What's weird is how people report the long-acting esters taking 4 weeks to kick in despite their being almost immediately available in the blood (according to the graph.) I always thought that the math and graphing in the article I linked was a pretty good explanation for that, but I guess it's something else. Can you hazard a guess as to why this is?
Click to expand...
What you're not taking into consideration is that the graphs that you linked to were not of a single injection, UNLIKE the graph that I posted. If you take a look at the graph which I posted, deca has a half life of about 10 days. Most ppl dont shoot every ten days, they tend to shoot deca once a week. If you graphed the first injection, and then the second, on day 7 the spike would be even higher! This is why ppl say deca doesnt kick in until the 4th week, it takes a few weeks for maximum concentrations to be seen.

PS im not saying that those graphs which you posted were accurate...those definitely are not...graphing blood levels in general is very debatable at the moment (even if you did have the correct half lives)
 
ready2explode said:
There is also much more to notice with this. Notice that 1cc of deca yields higher blood levels than the equivalent amount in of deca in 4 mls of oil. Also, notice that 1cc in the glute resulted in twice the peak compared to 1cc in the deltoid. I keep trying to stress glute injections and this is why...
Click to expand...

I can't believe that there is such a large difference between deltoid and glute injections. Do you have any more info as to why there is that difference? I read the study and they merely speculate that it may have something to do with the amount of bodyfat in the injection area. If that is the case, I wonder if people who don't have a whole lot of fat in either place still get that huge difference in blood levels.
 
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