Question for Nelson-ephedra

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Sorry to keep returning to this...

But Nelson has not yet backed up his claims, the ones sifu asked him about (before he was banned)...nor has he provided proof to counter my accusations that he was lying about most of his 'credentials'.

Nelson hasnt given a SHRED of proof- sort of like Fonz ducking requests for proof of his 'SAS' experience, amongst other claims.
Bottom line- Nelson, if you arent the money-grubbing fraud I claim you are, then prove me wrong. Prove, point by point, your claims to being an authority on bodybuilding....and prove your 'accomplishments'.
You won't.
Ever.
Because you know I am right.
 
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Alright, I'll address the "studies" issue. I have none. I do have loads of evidence though. Now the question should be; what does that prove?

This is an issue in itself. And it's something prevelant on message boards -- things are "proven" or "disproven" based on pre-existing studies or lack thereoff. The problem is, people don't seem to realize that just because a study doesn't exist doesn't mean the theory is wrong. Plus, most studies are conducted with an agenda in mind -- not necessarily that they represent a company, but they're out to prove something one way or another. Hell, anyone can "prove" anything in that way.

For example...

I 've used the example in the past that if I asked 25 people with blonde hair were asked the same math question as 25 people with brown hair it's doubtful everyone would get it right or the amount of each group would be the same. In other words, if 23 blondes got it right and 22 brunettes got it right it would be an accurate conclusion to say;

"Blondes are more knowledgable in math, according to study."

Ridiculous? Not at all. It's the absolute truth isn't it. It happens all the time. And to make matters worse, 9 out of 10 people on these boards don't even read pasted studies. They're used as "ante" -- their substance irrelevant. If more people actually analyzed more of this research, they'd see how flawed so much of it is. That's my job. I've been an activist of sorts in this field and have uncovered quite a bit of misrepresentation. Now if someone thinks I'm just a kid with a computer it makes it difficult to get my research accepted. Threads turn into endless accusations about my credentials. I understand that people have a right to know but you must understand that it becomes difficult to present an information while at the same time explain myself to a multitude of antagonists just dying to proove me wrong.

Now in the case of ephedra, it has not been prescribed by doctors so there's very little evidence of its effects. On the other hand, I don't think anyone would agrue that there' are several studies suggesting its danger. BUT NOBODY WANTS TO BELIEVE THOSE STUDIES! No! Those studies were conducrted by idiots. Everyone wants to believe the study that coinsides with their own convictions.

There's also a logic involved. There have been numerous studies conducted on various diet pills, all of which have been CNS. They ALL come to the same conclusion -- the body initially reacts positively -- improved mood, increased energy, weight losss, etc. And then there's a crash. Every time. The "rebound "effect is simply basic physiology. The body always wants to be in a state of homeostasis. If it's agitated with stimulents for weeks on end, how else can it adapt? It MUST slow down it's basic metabolic rate. This is simple physiology.

So the lack of University studies, to me, is meaningless. There are no studies that prove getting smacked in the head with a barstool hurts -- but it does. Hell, there are studies that say steroids don't work! The point is; I'm here to say "think about it." Use your common sense. Consider these points.

But as always, there will be people who want to argue -- even if their own experience tells them ephedra sucks. They'll still argue... just to argue.


I need a cup of coffee.
 
Victorian guy said:
Sorry to keep returning to this...

But Nelson has not yet backed up his claims, the ones sifu asked him about (before he was banned)...nor has he provided proof to counter my accusations that he was lying about most of his 'credentials'.

Nelson hasnt given a SHRED of proof- sort of like Fonz ducking requests for proof of his 'SAS' experience, amongst other claims.
Bottom line- Nelson, if you arent the money-grubbing fraud I claim you are, then prove me wrong. Prove, point by point, your claims to being an authority on bodybuilding....and prove your 'accomplishments'.
You won't.
Ever.
Because you know I am right.
Click to expand...


Nah, this isn't an attack. It's a legitimate question, right? Money grubbing is an endearing term. Sure.

Victorian Guy. Let me me ask you a question. Just hypotethically. How big of an asshole would you be if it turned out you were wrong?
 
Nelson, I absolutely agree that most people will sway their belief and opinion, which ultimately determines their actions, toward what they WANT to believe! Ephedra has been proven to be dangerous...is it not the main component of crystal methamphetamine! Ephedra worked for me at first, but the sides from it were nasty and I felt my body "readjust" after a month on it. For me, it was a great "short term" fix, but that is all.
It is also absolutely true that the human body, with all of it's complexities, can and will adjust back to homeostasis. It is common sense that if the body is slowing down it's metabolic rate (to adjust to the ephedra), then once you come off you will be in worse shape than you started...your base metabolic rate will be lower than normal (without a CNS). Look at the crash that recovering Meth tweekers come off of...it is the same damn thing as Ephedra, only on a much grander scale. And no, I do not have a "STUDY" to prove this...just good old common sense!
 
Spartie said:
Nelson, I absolutely agree that most people will sway their belief and opinion, which ultimately determines their actions, toward what they WANT to believe! Ephedra has been proven to be dangerous...is it not the main component of crystal methamphetamine! Ephedra worked for me at first, but the sides from it were nasty and I felt my body "readjust" after a month on it. For me, it was a great "short term" fix, but that is all.
It is also absolutely true that the human body, with all of it's complexities, can and will adjust back to homeostasis. It is common sense that if the body is slowing down it's metabolic rate (to adjust to the ephedra), then once you come off you will be in worse shape than you started...your base metabolic rate will be lower than normal (without a CNS). Look at the crash that recovering Meth tweekers come off of...it is the same damn thing as Ephedra, only on a much grander scale. And no, I do not have a "STUDY" to prove this...just good old common sense!
Click to expand...


Thanks bro. I think maybe you put it better than I. It's common sense, right? It's amazing how many people don't want to accept that though. Okay, everybody -- start breaking Sparties's balls!!! :)
 
Nelson - Montana said:
Thanks bro. I think maybe you put it better than I. It's common sense, right? It's amazing how many people don't want to accept that though. Okay, everybody -- start breaking Sparties's balls!!! :)
Click to expand...
I understand your "logic", Nelson, but my question is if this rebound effect happens, why haven't there been post upon post on body building forums when all those who use ephedra for cutting experience it?
 
U know what gets me about this, is the fact that there are so many drugs otc that have equivalent health issues (dangers)....yet, they are sold to the public...Even 12 years olds can buy it...

Just out of curiosity, are there any drugs otc that are responsible for anyones death?...


Jumpback
 
rubberduckyo said:
I understand your "logic", Nelson, but my question is if this rebound effect happens, why haven't there been post upon post on body building forums when all those who use ephedra for cutting experience it?
Click to expand...




I would think it's because so few people go on message boards to announce their fat came back. Or they used the ephedra for a specific purpose and accept the fact that they couldn't maintain that bf%. But come on, EVERYBODY knows somebody who lost a bunch of weight with stimulents and gained it all back. You see this every day.


jumpback: Of course. Take an entire bottle of just about anything sold in a drug store and it'll kill you.
 
Nelson,


That's what gets me...There are risk with any drug...It's all in how the drug is used...Also, people react differently to the same drug...That's why these studies have the possibility of being unreliable, as u have pointed out...

My opinion is, if your gonna ban one drug, or bash it, then u should do this to ALL drugs...Why?...Becasue they all have the potential of causing adverse reactions in the subject...


JumpBack
 
Nelson - Montana said:
I would think it's because so few people go on message boards to announce their fat came back. Or they used the ephedra for a specific purpose and accept the fact that they couldn't maintain that bf%. But come on, EVERYBODY knows somebody who lost a bunch of weight with stimulents and gained it all back. You see this every day.


jumpback: Of course. Take an entire bottle of just about anything sold in a drug store and it'll kill you.
Click to expand...

Dont most people who use supplements legal or otherwise for fat burning typically go off the eating plans and training/cardio they did after stopping using said supplements. That is the most logical reason for people gaining weight in my opinion.

Look at it this way. How many idiots does anyone know who actually only train when tey are on juice? How many people go on supplements again legal/illegal and cry bloody murder when the supps dont give them any results yet the training eating etc of the person is the whole story

PS personally I think 99% of supplements are useless unless diet and training are right for the person and thier goals.
 
brooklynheight said:
ephedra is a decent appetite supress. that makes mr. long john go to sleep.
Click to expand...


I eat and get hard and last longer and libido goes up on it...See how drugs can effect people differently...




JumpBack
 
Milhouse said:
Dont most people who use supplements legal or otherwise for fat burning typically go off the eating plans and training/cardio they did after stopping using said supplements. That is the most logical reason for people gaining weight in my opinion.

Look at it this way. How many idiots does anyone know who actually only train when tey are on juice? How many people go on supplements again legal/illegal and cry bloody murder when the supps dont give them any results yet the training eating etc of the person is the whole story

PS personally I think 99% of supplements are useless unless diet and training are right for the person and thier goals.
Click to expand...

Of course. Supplements just give a little boost. It's up to the user to decide where it's needed and when it's worth it.

Actually, even steroids don't do much unless you train and eat right. I see guys looking to gain twenty pounds and they're mixing their protein with water and cutting carbs. Then when they don't grow they assume they need more drugs.

I was re-reading an interview I did with Craig Titus and he said, as long as he gets enough protein, water and fiber, he eats whatever he can -- Mc Donolds, cookies, whatever, in order to grow.

But yeah, it's best to look at supplements as a healthy addition, and ephedra isn't healthy. Nothing will ever take the place of drugs but drugs have their downside. That's why I always felt a combination of a judicious use of drugs along with good supplementation gives the best advantage. But again, without the diet and especially the right kind of hard training, you're wasting your time.
 
Nelson - Montana said:
Of course. Supplements just give a little boost. It's up to the user to decide where it's needed and when it's worth it.

Actually, even steroids don't do much unless you train and eat right. I see guys looking to gain twenty pounds and they're mixing their protein with water and cutting carbs. Then when they don't grow they assume they need more drugs.

I was re-reading an interview I did with Craig Titus and he said, as long as he gets enough protein, water and fiber, he eats whatever he can -- Mc Donolds, cookies, whatever, in order to grow.

But yeah, it's best to look at supplements as a healthy addition, and ephedra isn't healthy. Nothing will ever take the place of drugs but drugs have their downside. That's why I always felt a combination of a judicious use of drugs along with good supplementation gives the best advantage. But again, without the diet and especially the right kind of hard training, you're wasting your time.
Click to expand...
So it's not a rebound from ephedra it's the lack of dedication that causes the weight gain? :confused:
 
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