Receptor issue

[overcrime]

ok so ive been hearing this over and over again from many different people and i just wanted you guys to set me straight.On this forum many people are saying when you first do juice test only is the proper way to go. I have been hearing from many other sources that first timers should take advantage of their "clean receptors" and do atleast 2 compounds at once for the first cycle because it would bee much more effective and just as safe. Their theory is that after a few cycles of steroids your receptors adapt and become desensitized to the aas. Therefore first time users must take advantage of their clean receptors and run atleas 2 compounds.

What do you guys think about this theory is this whole thing about receptor desensitization true?

 

[jnm]

you have different receptors in the body, from androgen to adrenergic receptors...there is no such thing as "down regulation of androgen receptors"...if anything taking in Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) increases androgen receptors... and studies prove that... you'll be surprised that working out decreases your receptors overtime and can only be increased by taking aas!!

i know one guy that took 500 mg/week of test e in his first cyle and gained 25lbs.. then for his second cycle took 250mg/week and gained 25lbs!! what does that say?

if anything you dont want to overkill your first few cycles.. but the opposite and start off at low doses.. depending on your genetics.. and how far you are from your natural peak is what dictates your dosages.. those with more experience cycle experience and high lbm would benefit most from high doses.. whereas high doses for beginers with not as much lbm weight to be maintaned would be useless..eventually wasted.

Thats why bros tell you after you finish your cycle you stay off as much as you stayed on.. many believe the reason behind that is to "REFRESH" or "CLEAN" your receptors... but thats bs... theres more to it behind that..

its a little more complicated with the whole tolerance topic and has to do with SHBG and other hormones that build tolerance and your body trying to return to homeostasis.. but not androgen reptors..

CONCLUSION= YOU CANT HURRY MUSCLE, take your time and start with low doses and eventually increase with increments. Dont always listen to peoples advice.. especially the meat head theory of hitting it hard when your a virgin...that applies to real life too.. and do your research. GL
This is an awsome site by the way.. lots of good info..

 

[estray]

Solid advice. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Andy13]

The evidence for up-regulation is shaky... The problem is that there is a limited number of ways to measure this.. It's hard to say anything really definitive about receptors and up-regulation or down-regulation because there of the lack of relevant studies. Most of what we are looking at are non-human studies. Furthermore, many are in vitro, and don't use supraphysiological doses of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) that BBers would use.

I don't buy the "first cycle is best" idea.

The issue is not whether or not it is a first cycle. As Bill Roberts said, there is no counter inside your body counting how many cycles you have done. The concept of the "genetic limit" seems to fit here.. If you start as a 90 lb weakling, and do a cycle and gain 50lbs, then quit working out and shrink back down to 90 lbs, and then do another cycle similar to what you did the first time, you would get the same results that you got for your first cycle.

So there's nothing special about your first cycle, per se. There's no real need to "seize the time" in other words.. I also don't buy that test should be the first drug someone uses. Whatever you use, you should use in moderation since you don't know how badly you will get some of the sides.

 

[Andy13]

there is no such thing as "down regulation of androgen receptors"...if anything taking in Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) increases androgen receptors... and studies prove that... you'll be surprised that working out decreases your receptors overtime and can only be increased by taking aas!!

.

With all respect, this is simply not true.. There absolutely is androgen receptor down-regulation.. And where did you read that working out decreases your receptors (which, by the way, IS IN FACT down-regulation, something you just said doesn't happen ?

Not meant to be a flame..

 

[jnm]

With all respect, this is simply not true.. There absolutely is androgen receptor down-regulation.. And where did you read that working out decreases your receptors (which, by the way, IS IN FACT down-regulation, something you just said doesn't happen ?

Not meant to be a flame..

I understand.. this is a highly debated topic in the BB and steroid community...


Andy..I'm glad your challenging this..i'm sorry i didnt clarify.. i meant there is no such thing as AR(adnrogen receptor) downregulation with the introduction to aas... at least for the time being there is no evidene whatsoever.

Androgen receptors and adrenergic receptors are quite different. Nevertheless, this is the argument for androgen receptor down-regulation and the reasoning behind it(1)..Where adrenergic receptor half-life is decreased in most target cells with increased catecholamines, AR receptors half-live’s are actually increased in many tissues in the presence of androgens.(2)

please send your feedback to Bryan Haycock MS.. his link and article is at the bottom..

1. http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/androgen-receptors-01.htm
2. Kemppainen JA, Lane MV, Sar M, Wilson EM. Androgen receptor phosphorylation, turnover, nuclear transport, and transcriptional activation. Specificity for steroids and antihormones. J Biol Chem 1992 Jan 15;267(2):968-74

 

[estray]

With all respect, this is simply not true.. There absolutely is androgen receptor down-regulation.. And where did you read that working out decreases your receptors (which, by the way, IS IN FACT down-regulation, something you just said doesn't happen ?

Not meant to be a flame..

The only studies ive seen that prove downregulation exists is in naturally hypogonadal males.

 

[Andy13]

The only studies ive seen that prove downregulation exists is in naturally hypogonadal males.

Down regulation has extensively been shown to occur in vitro. Like I said before, however, it is hard to extrapolate what happens in cell culture to real life.

 

[maverickLA]

I would suggest not doing more than one compound for your first cycle on the pure reasoning of "you don't know how it's going to affect you." If you have an adverse reaction to one of the compounds - how are you going to know which one? Also - it makes it difficult to monitor and understand WHICH dosage of WHICH drugs is giving you WHICH effects.

 

[pineapple]

With all respect, this is simply not true.. There absolutely is androgen receptor down-regulation.. And where did you read that working out decreases your receptors (which, by the way, IS IN FACT down-regulation, something you just said doesn't happen ?

Not meant to be a flame..

Wait a minute, how can you say what you just said, when before you said this It's hard to say anything really definitive about receptors and up-regulation or down-regulation because there of the lack of relevant studies."

You just contradicted yourself there.