Retain water (swelling) on test even when estro is low?

[oliverduke]

i would wait until you get your results back before changeing anything, did you do blood work at this point in your last cycle when you had the bloating

yeh same outcome nothing out of the ordinary and estrogen was low... been getting some pretty debilitating pumps too!

 

[Southernfish]

It could he so many things. It could even be an issue with your lymphatic system. Sometimes a lowered immune system can have an effect on this system causing it to bot properly flush out fluids from tissues. I actually had an issue like this once myself.

 

[jozifp103]

You could just be sensitive to carbs/sodium. I know whenever I'm on cycle...even with my e2 in check....if I eat a large meal with a lot of carbs....my stomach looks like a turtle shell. Not sure if it's water or just gas pushing it out but it is enough to make me self conscious.

 

[oliverduke]

It could he so many things. It could even be an issue with your lymphatic system. Sometimes a lowered immune system can have an effect on this system causing it to bot properly flush out fluids from tissues. I actually had an issue like this once myself.

Yeh interesting idea, last cycle it made me feel very tired and lethargic but this time it coincided with 'test flu' although I had the swelling before the test flu it's deff got worse since...
Obviously It doesn't make me look my best and made me stop the cycle last time... Debating it now but deff keen to lower the dosage and see if that helps.

 

[oliverduke]

You could just be sensitive to carbs/sodium. I know whenever I'm on cycle...even with my e2 in check....if I eat a large meal with a lot of carbs....my stomach looks like a turtle shell. Not sure if it's water or just gas pushing it out but it is enough to make me self conscious.

Yeh it's not just bloated stomach, it's like a watery pad has been stuck under my skin! And if I move my trouser line I can move the water around underneath.
And when it's bad like today I have two big tube like love handles...
I always panick and think it's fat and start cutting, then it goes occasionally... Very odd! The high test I believe is the most likely culprit though

 

[Megatron28]

just over a week ago, had oestrogen tested again today should have results in 2 days time.

Thinking of lowering test to 350?

Can't you get a legible copy? Or type it in for us?

As for protein, why not just eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight? That should be plenty. How much do you weigh?

 

[PrinceDianabol]

And just to be clear... did you get estradiol (e2) checked, or total estrogen? The fact you keep calling it estrogen worries me lol...

 

[halfwit]

If estradiol is in check (I blew up both images and it's not listed on any of them), I too am betting it's your carbohydrate intake. Your sodium values from Jan look fine, and if your kidneys were in distress, your eGFR and GGT numbers would be wonky. Just another retarded doctor spouting horseshit because he heard that albumin excretion (a protein) can be increased by excessive protein intake. Now if you had diabetes, renal insufficiency, cardiovascular issues and had these symptoms - I would definitely be looking at the kidneys.

I'm not a doctor, but looking at your blood work, I'm going to say it's not the kidneys at all. Carbs blow me up to the point where I get lines on the side of my head from my safety glasses I wear at work while on a bulk. This is with the aid of a diuretic too, so I can only imagine what it does to folks that don't have my water drinking habits (sitting at 2.5g/ED atm; it helps reduce water retention), or access to diuretics from the pharmacy. I'd wait for the results, but I foresee a reduction of carbs in your future.

My .02c

 

[oliverduke]

Can't you get a legible copy? Or type it in for us?

As for protein, why not just eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight? That should be plenty. How much do you weigh?

I just like meat I guess haha, about 70kg so I only need around 200g max I'd say.

And just to be clear... did you get estradiol (e2) checked, or total estrogen? The fact you keep calling it estrogen worries me lol...

Yes it's e2, can't find the bloody bit of paper but it was low normal range, Iv got a retest coming today or tomorrow!

If estradiol is in check (I blew up both images and it's not listed on any of them), I too am betting it's your carbohydrate intake. Your sodium values from Jan look fine, and if your kidneys were in distress, your eGFR and GGT numbers would be wonky. Just another retarded doctor spouting horseshit because he heard that albumin excretion (a protein) can be increased by excessive protein intake. Now if you had diabetes, renal insufficiency, cardiovascular issues and had these symptoms - I would definitely be looking at the kidneys.

I'm not a doctor, but looking at your blood work, I'm going to say it's not the kidneys at all. Carbs blow me up to the point where I get lines on the side of my head from my safety glasses I wear at work while on a bulk. This is with the aid of a diuretic too, so I can only imagine what it does to folks that don't have my water drinking habits (sitting at 2.5g/ED atm; it helps reduce water retention), or access to diuretics from the pharmacy. I'd wait for the results, but I foresee a reduction of carbs in your future.

My .02c

Thanks, it's funny you say carbs because it's rather a confusing situation when it comes to carbs and the effects...
When I go no carbs through the day the swelling seems to get worse and then if I eat a load of carbs at night I wake up with no swelling?

But then again it does seem as I drink water through the day I swell, and at night when I'm dehydrated it goes away which makes sense and would then dispell my findings above as just a correlation...

Why would it be on trt dosage I don't seem to get the swelling issue?

Last cycle I also got water retention in the face but none this time which is odd...

Just trying to think of how to move forward with it.

Thinking lower protein intake, lower test to 350 (will take a while to drop now anyway), and spread my carbs more evenly and at a lower amount through the day? And replace with dietary fats?

I'm going to head into a deficit as a 'mini' on cycle cut while I get the swelling sorted out!

Macros

250p
200c
60f

 

[oliverduke]

I just like meat I guess haha, about 70kg so I only need around 200g max I'd say.



Yes it's e2, can't find the bloody bit of paper but it was low normal range, Iv got a retest coming today or tomorrow!



Thanks, it's funny you say carbs because it's rather a confusing situation when it comes to carbs and the effects...
When I go no carbs through the day the swelling seems to get worse and then if I eat a load of carbs at night I wake up with no swelling?

But then again it does seem as I drink water through the day I swell, and at night when I'm dehydrated it goes away which makes sense and would then dispell my findings above as just a correlation...

Why would it be on trt dosage I don't seem to get the swelling issue?

Last cycle I also got water retention in the face but none this time which is odd...

Just trying to think of how to move forward with it.

Thinking lower protein intake, lower test to 350 (will take a while to drop now anyway), and spread my carbs more evenly and at a lower amount through the day? And replace with dietary fats?

I'm going to head into a deficit as a 'mini' on cycle cut while I get the swelling sorted out!

Macros

250p
200c
60f

Could it be low sodium?

 

[oliverduke]

had my oestradial result back, could that be high enough to be causing retention?
nearly in middle of normal range

thanks

 

[oliverduke]

Can't you get a legible copy? Or type it in for us?

As for protein, why not just eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight? That should be plenty. How much do you weigh?

And just to be clear... did you get estradiol (e2) checked, or total estrogen? The fact you keep calling it estrogen worries me lol...

If estradiol is in check (I blew up both images and it's not listed on any of them), I too am betting it's your carbohydrate intake. Your sodium values from Jan look fine, and if your kidneys were in distress, your eGFR and GGT numbers would be wonky. Just another retarded doctor spouting horseshit because he heard that albumin excretion (a protein) can be increased by excessive protein intake. Now if you had diabetes, renal insufficiency, cardiovascular issues and had these symptoms - I would definitely be looking at the kidneys.

I'm not a doctor, but looking at your blood work, I'm going to say it's not the kidneys at all. Carbs blow me up to the point where I get lines on the side of my head from my safety glasses I wear at work while on a bulk. This is with the aid of a diuretic too, so I can only imagine what it does to folks that don't have my water drinking habits (sitting at 2.5g/ED atm; it helps reduce water retention), or access to diuretics from the pharmacy. I'd wait for the results, but I foresee a reduction of carbs in your future.

My .02c

had oestradiol result back, its not as low as i thought but its not high high, on trt i sit a bit lower than that... Currently on 25mg aromasin EOD for around 5 days now.

 

[inhaus]

that e2 is fine... comes out to like 20 pg/ml

 

[Megatron28]

that e2 is fine... comes out to like 20 pg/ml

If that is the non-sensitive Assay, your E2 could be too low at 20pg/ml.

 

[oliverduke]

If that is the non-sensitive Assay, your E2 could be too low at 20pg/ml.

Yes it's non sensitive I believe.

Iv got sore elbows, but apart from that everything seems normal ish... I am more tired and lethargic than usual but I did have cold/test flu this week so don't want to assume things...

Still no further to solving the water retention tho as its obvs not estrogen?

Salt and carbs are next targets I guess?

Had less carbs yesterday and stomach is less watery but not much different on ankles/love handles but maybe I'm being impatient?

I'm also considering lowering test to 350 just incase it is causing any issues internally. This would obviously power my estrogen further, I'm on 25mg ed of aromasin. Shall I reduce to 12.5? ed or eod

 

[halfwit]

I just like meat I guess haha, about 70kg so I only need around 200g max I'd say.



Yes it's e2, can't find the bloody bit of paper but it was low normal range, Iv got a retest coming today or tomorrow!



Thanks, it's funny you say carbs because it's rather a confusing situation when it comes to carbs and the effects...
When I go no carbs through the day the swelling seems to get worse and then if I eat a load of carbs at night I wake up with no swelling?

But then again it does seem as I drink water through the day I swell, and at night when I'm dehydrated it goes away which makes sense and would then dispell my findings above as just a correlation...

Why would it be on trt dosage I don't seem to get the swelling issue?

Last cycle I also got water retention in the face but none this time which is odd...

Just trying to think of how to move forward with it.

Thinking lower protein intake, lower test to 350 (will take a while to drop now anyway), and spread my carbs more evenly and at a lower amount through the day? And replace with dietary fats?

I'm going to head into a deficit as a 'mini' on cycle cut while I get the swelling sorted out!

Macros

250p
200c
60f

First, I want to add that I agree your estradiol is actually borderline low.

Second, I don't think you understand how water retention caused by carbohydrate sensitivity (I don't remember, have you looked into gluten intolerance?) works. It's a process that takes several days to get the excess water out if it is indeed being caused by carbs. If you want to test this, cut carbs down to 20g for a couple weeks (increase fats to compensate) and see if you're retaining any water then.

This brings me to my next question: have you made any diet changes? Foods that you have an allergy to can certainly cause this. Typical offenders are seafood, iodine, gluten, peanuts, eggs/dairy, etc. Low sodium would have the opposite effect, unless you're dangerously low on iodine (iodized salt is one of the most common sources of iodine), which can cause thyroid problems.

I still am fairly certain that you're not having kidney issues from protein consumption, but a trip to a nephrologist will certainly rule that out.

 

[oliverduke]

First, I want to add that I agree your estradiol is actually borderline low.

Second, I don't think you understand how water retention caused by carbohydrate sensitivity (I don't remember, have you looked into gluten intolerance?) works. It's a process that takes several days to get the excess water out if it is indeed being caused by carbs. If you want to test this, cut carbs down to 20g for a couple weeks (increase fats to compensate) and see if you're retaining any water then.

This brings me to my next question: have you made any diet changes? Foods that you have an allergy to can certainly cause this. Typical offenders are seafood, iodine, gluten, peanuts, eggs/dairy, etc. Low sodium would have the opposite effect, unless you're dangerously low on iodine (iodized salt is one of the most common sources of iodine), which can cause thyroid problems.

I still am fairly certain that you're not having kidney issues from protein consumption, but a trip to a nephrologist will certainly rule that out.

in terms of the estradial I'm going to reduce aromasin to 12.5ed instead of 25ed, I have also lowered the test dosage to 350mg/week but being test E this is going to take a few weeks to reduce down anyway?

Agreed I'm not quite sure how how it works, apart from carbs retain water in the body but i see a lot of people seem to reference it more so when doing a cycle than a natural trainer would. Does test effect the sensitivity? as i only seem to notice it more when my test dosage increases...
I have reduced carb intake to <100g without any direct carb sources, just veggies and some diary.

I haven't made any fundamental dietary changes, however i am sensitive to gluten. But not intolerant, and have had some whitebabix slightly more frequently than I'm used to. Hard to see how this could have such a profound effect but shouldn't be ruled out i guess?

 

[oliverduke]

First, I want to add that I agree your estradiol is actually borderline low.

Second, I don't think you understand how water retention caused by carbohydrate sensitivity (I don't remember, have you looked into gluten intolerance?) works. It's a process that takes several days to get the excess water out if it is indeed being caused by carbs. If you want to test this, cut carbs down to 20g for a couple weeks (increase fats to compensate) and see if you're retaining any water then.

This brings me to my next question: have you made any diet changes? Foods that you have an allergy to can certainly cause this. Typical offenders are seafood, iodine, gluten, peanuts, eggs/dairy, etc. Low sodium would have the opposite effect, unless you're dangerously low on iodine (iodized salt is one of the most common sources of iodine), which can cause thyroid problems.

I still am fairly certain that you're not having kidney issues from protein consumption, but a trip to a nephrologist will certainly rule that out.

On further thought, I'm moving more towards gluten as everytime i increase my calories i get seem to get swelling, which obviously coincides with more carbs, and when your allowed more carbs you generaly end up eating more gluten containing products, would a build up overtime cause an irritation? as it wasn't straight away i got the swelling when i resumed some gluten in my diet.

Secondly, why does my body seem to loose the water through the night? if it was gluten wouldn't it be continuous?

 

[halfwit]

in terms of the estradial I'm going to reduce aromasin to 12.5ed instead of 25ed, I have also lowered the test dosage to 350mg/week but being test E this is going to take a few weeks to reduce down anyway?

Agreed I'm not quite sure how how it works, apart from carbs retain water in the body but i see a lot of people seem to reference it more so when doing a cycle than a natural trainer would. Does test effect the sensitivity? as i only seem to notice it more when my test dosage increases...
I have reduced carb intake to <100g without any direct carb sources, just veggies and some diary.

I haven't made any fundamental dietary changes, however i am sensitive to gluten. But not intolerant, and have had some whitebabix slightly more frequently than I'm used to. Hard to see how this could have such a profound effect but shouldn't be ruled out i guess?

I would have changed one thing at a time with regards to the hormones. Yes, it will be a couple weeks before you come down in test, and the estradiol rises a smidgen.

AAS can impact the amount of glycogen you store in muscle tissue, which is mostly made of water. However, I've yet to see it do anything subcutaneously with regards to water retention if estradiol is in check.

Gluten intolerance causes an inflammatory response (as do any other allergic reactions) which can lead to a host of problems. I personally know a gal that went undiagnosed with Celiac's for decades; and when she eliminated gluten, she seriously lost over 37lbs of WATER just by removing what her body saw as a threat.

That's all I can really think of, unless you're on medications like insulin or certain NSAIDs.

 

[oliverduke]

I would have changed one thing at a time with regards to the hormones. Yes, it will be a couple weeks before you come down in test, and the estradiol rises a smidgen.

AAS can impact the amount of glycogen you store in muscle tissue, which is mostly made of water. However, I've yet to see it do anything subcutaneously with regards to water retention if estradiol is in check.

Gluten intolerance causes an inflammatory response (as do any other allergic reactions) which can lead to a host of problems. I personally know a gal that went undiagnosed with Celiac's for decades; and when she eliminated gluten, she seriously lost over 37lbs of WATER just by removing what her body saw as a threat.

That's all I can really think of, unless you're on medications like insulin or certain NSAIDs.

Im quite confident its down to gluten the more i have thought about it, i used to avoid it like the plague and have been more relaxed recently and all the symptoms seem to align. (bloating, occasional diarrhoea, occasional stomach cramps, fatigue)

The test is definitely effecting muscle glycogen, feels like I'm going to pop when i train! whether its impacting the other swelling that could be gluten related is hard to say.
However i think the higher test could be slowing down my kidneys slightly?

What i can't work out, is why the retention gets worse throughout the day as I'm drinking and seems to settle at night?

1. could be due to the kidneys being able to function better when lead down
2. could just be a case of more water in the day means more retention, and more dehydrated at night...

In regards to the hormones, i think reducing the test to 350 is sensible for now (I'm in a deficit anyway...)

In regards to estrogen, its already borderline low... and with test being reduced I'm guessing it will just get lower so makes sense to reduce that dosage too?

thanks for the help, will report back on how the swelling goes over the next week or so.

If its carbs/gluten causing an issue, how long would i be expecting it to take to see improvements?