Saw Palmetto and AS
- Thread starter Hammer
- Start date
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
I use it year round, on cycle or not.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Hey Hammer.......here is a link to a great thread on Prostate Health, it' s actually a "sticky", right here on top of this forum.
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2770
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2770
Drveejay11
I am banned!
StoneColdNTO said:
I know the author of that thread..........I heard he's the gayest MOFO in the house!
LOL.............
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StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Any time
hhajdo
Community Veteran
Saw Palmetto is good stuff, but I really think it's too weak to prevent DHT increase caused by 500 mg or more test you'll inject.
It wasn't able to prevent a DHT increase during androstenedione supplementation....
It may help BPH via some other mechanisms though...
Int J Vitam Nutr Res 2001 Sep;71(5):293-301 Related Articles, Links
Effects of androstenedione-herbal supplementation on serum sex hormone concentrations in 30- to 59-year-old men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA, USA.
The effectiveness of a nutritional supplement designed to enhance serum testosterone concentrations and prevent the formation of dihydrotestosterone and estrogens from the ingested androgens was investigated in healthy 30- to 59-year old men. Subjects were randomly assigned to consume DION (300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 540 mg saw palmetto, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol, 625 mg chrysin, and 750 mg Tribulus terrestris per day; n = 28) or placebo (n = 27) for 28 days. Serum free testosterone, total testosterone, androstenedione, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and lipid concentrations were measured before and throughout the 4-week supplementation period. Serum concentrations of total testosterone and PSA were unchanged by supplementation. DION increased (p < 0.05) serum androstenedione (342%), free testosterone (38%), dihydrotestosterone (71%), and estradiol (103%) concentrations. Serum HDL-C concentrations were reduced by 5.0 mg/dL in DION (p < 0.05). Increases in serum free testosterone (r2 = 0.01), androstenedione (r2 = 0.01), dihydrotestosterone (r2 = 0.03), or estradiol (r2 = 0.07) concentrations in DION were not related to age. While the ingestion of androstenedione combined with herbal products increased serum free testosterone concentrations in older men, these herbal products did not prevent the conversion of ingested androstenedione to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone.
Urology 2002 Oct;60(4):617-22 Links
Saw palmetto alters nuclear measurements reflecting DNA content in men with symptomatic BPH: evidence for a possible molecular mechanism.
Veltri RW, Marks LS, Miller MC, Bales WD, Fan J, Macairan ML, Epstein JI, Partin AW.
Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland, USA.
OBJECTIVES: To examine the nuclear chromatin characteristics of epithelial cells, looking for an SPHB-mediated effect on nuclear DNA structure and organization. Saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) causes contraction of prostate epithelial cells and suppression of tissue dihydrotestosterone levels in men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia, but a fundamental mechanism remains unknown. METHODS: A 6-month randomized trial, comparing prostatic tissue of men treated with SPHB (n = 20) or placebo (n = 20), was performed. At baseline, the two groups were similar in age (65 versus 64 years), symptoms (International Prostate Symptom Score 18 versus 17), uroflow (maximal urinary flow rate 10 versus 11 mL/s), prostate volume (59 versus 58 cm(3)), prostate-specific antigen (4.2 versus 2.7 ng/mL), and percentage of epithelium (17% versus 16%). Prostatic tissue was obtained by sextant biopsy before and after treatment. Five-micron sections were Feulgen stained and quantitatively analyzed using the AutoCyte QUIC-DNA imaging system. Images were captured from 200 randomly selected epithelial cell nuclei, and 60 nuclear morphometric descriptors (NMDs) (eg, size, shape, DNA content, and textural features) were determined for each nucleus. Logistic regression analysis was used to assess the differences in the variances of the NMDs between the treated and untreated prostate epithelial cells. RESULTS: At baseline, the SPHB and placebo groups had similar NMD values. After 6 months of placebo, no significant change from baseline was found in the NMDs. However, after 6 months of SPHB, 25 of the 60 NMDs were significantly different compared with baseline, and a multivariate model for predicting treatment effect using 4 of the 25 was created (P <0.001). The multivariate model had an area under the receiver operating characteristic curve of 94% and an accuracy of 85%. CONCLUSIONS: Six months of SPHB treatment appears to alter the DNA chromatin structure and organization in prostate epithelial cells. Thus, a possible molecular basis for tissue changes and therapeutic effect of the compound is suggested.
It wasn't able to prevent a DHT increase during androstenedione supplementation....
It may help BPH via some other mechanisms though...
Int J Vitam Nutr Res 2001 Sep;71(5):293-301 Related Articles, Links
Effects of androstenedione-herbal supplementation on serum sex hormone concentrations in 30- to 59-year-old men.
Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA, USA.
The effectiveness of a nutritional supplement designed to enhance serum testosterone concentrations and prevent the formation of dihydrotestosterone and estrogens from the ingested androgens was investigated in healthy 30- to 59-year old men. Subjects were randomly assigned to consume DION (300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 540 mg saw palmetto, 300 mg indole-3-carbinol, 625 mg chrysin, and 750 mg Tribulus terrestris per day; n = 28) or placebo (n = 27) for 28 days. Serum free testosterone, total testosterone, androstenedione, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and lipid concentrations were measured before and throughout the 4-week supplementation period. Serum concentrations of total testosterone and PSA were unchanged by supplementation. DION increased (p < 0.05) serum androstenedione (342%), free testosterone (38%), dihydrotestosterone (71%), and estradiol (103%) concentrations. Serum HDL-C concentrations were reduced by 5.0 mg/dL in DION (p < 0.05). Increases in serum free testosterone (r2 = 0.01), androstenedione (r2 = 0.01), dihydrotestosterone (r2 = 0.03), or estradiol (r2 = 0.07) concentrations in DION were not related to age. While the ingestion of androstenedione combined with herbal products increased serum free testosterone concentrations in older men, these herbal products did not prevent the conversion of ingested androstenedione to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone.
Urology 2002 Oct;60(4):617-22 Links
Saw palmetto alters nuclear measurements reflecting DNA content in men with symptomatic BPH: evidence for a possible molecular mechanism.
Veltri RW, Marks LS, Miller MC, Bales WD, Fan J, Macairan ML, Epstein JI, Partin AW.
Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland, USA.
OBJECTIVES: To examine the nuclear chromatin characteristics of epithelial cells, looking for an SPHB-mediated effect on nuclear DNA structure and organization. Saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) causes contraction of prostate epithelial cells and suppression of tissue dihydrotestosterone levels in men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia, but a fundamental mechanism remains unknown. METHODS: A 6-month randomized trial, comparing prostatic tissue of men treated with SPHB (n = 20) or placebo (n = 20), was performed. At baseline, the two groups were similar in age (65 versus 64 years), symptoms (International Prostate Symptom Score 18 versus 17), uroflow (maximal urinary flow rate 10 versus 11 mL/s), prostate volume (59 versus 58 cm(3)), prostate-specific antigen (4.2 versus 2.7 ng/mL), and percentage of epithelium (17% versus 16%). Prostatic tissue was obtained by sextant biopsy before and after treatment. Five-micron sections were Feulgen stained and quantitatively analyzed using the AutoCyte QUIC-DNA imaging system. Images were captured from 200 randomly selected epithelial cell nuclei, and 60 nuclear morphometric descriptors (NMDs) (eg, size, shape, DNA content, and textural features) were determined for each nucleus. Logistic regression analysis was used to assess the differences in the variances of the NMDs between the treated and untreated prostate epithelial cells. RESULTS: At baseline, the SPHB and placebo groups had similar NMD values. After 6 months of placebo, no significant change from baseline was found in the NMDs. However, after 6 months of SPHB, 25 of the 60 NMDs were significantly different compared with baseline, and a multivariate model for predicting treatment effect using 4 of the 25 was created (P <0.001). The multivariate model had an area under the receiver operating characteristic curve of 94% and an accuracy of 85%. CONCLUSIONS: Six months of SPHB treatment appears to alter the DNA chromatin structure and organization in prostate epithelial cells. Thus, a possible molecular basis for tissue changes and therapeutic effect of the compound is suggested.
I agree with hhajdo, probably another mechanism of action. That's often the case w/ herbs, and when they try to isolate the "active" ingredient, things don't work out clinically or in studies.
Sometimes the the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and herbal medicine is a great example of that.
This being said, as a 40-something man, I'm on it all the time.
Sometimes the the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and herbal medicine is a great example of that.
This being said, as a 40-something man, I'm on it all the time.
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