Second PH cycle and post cycle therapy (pct) (thumbs up/critique)

DustinLee

DustinLee

Mutt
Second PH cycle and PCT (thumbs up/critique)

Epi/Halo Bridge Cycle and PCT items critique
Hey guys, I'm preparing everything to run a bridge cycle of epistane and halodrol. Have picked out all support supplements and PCT items. May be being overly doing it but never hurt to ask and get some advice.

Have run a cycle or epi previously and had no issues with simple pct, nolva, test booster. Was almost a year ago.

Cycle structure I was considering would be:

One month of taking Century Systems (Heart Miracle), Schiff Mens Health (Prostate Health), and NOW Liver Detoxifier and Regenerator to preload and clean my system out.

Epi 2a3a and Halovar

EPI 00/00/30/30/40/40
Halo 50/50/75/75

-On Cycle Support would be:

N2Guard, plenty of water, eating 1.5-2 grams protein per LB of LBM with macros sorted accordingly

-PCT would be:

Toremifene, Organ Shield, Finaflex Test, Erase Pro

Torem 120/90/60/30
Erase Pro started 2 or 3 weeks into PCT if even necessary at all?
Finaflex Test ran alongside Torem throughout as well as the same Heart, Liver, Prostate Supplements I loaded with prior to cycle and possibly just for the hell of it a bottle of Organ Shield.

I thought this would be a decent cycle to add an extra PH to the mix, mass gain, as well as extra strength and hardening (density), running the epi to the end vs halo being that epi is anti-Estro by itself.

Any comments or questions would be greatly appreciated, Im set on Torem as my serm and just had questions mainly surrounding if the Finaflex Test (DAA) was good enough to add in for test support, and if the Erase Pro would be necessary for an AI? I like that you can taper the original Erase, yet it has no cortisol control. Kind of a bummer.

Anyways thanks again, and good day to you all!
 
Go 2g protein/lb of BW when on cycle. So much protein synthesis going on it'll be useful :D Good choice on SERM!

Finaflex test/DAA should suffice for rebooting your test, however, if you're truly worried you can go and get clomid instead and run it 50/50/25/25. Prob come out cheaper too... but the sides will be there.

Erase pro would be a good addition but I don't see it as necessary for a 6 week cycle. Can help keep some gains I suppose, but I don't have much experience/knowledge about it. Again, if you're worried/prone to gyno you can always keep aromasin on hand if gyno occurs, but it shouldn't as it's epi and halo. The original PES Erase is a test booster, Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and a cortisol block as well; it does block cortisol.

good luck with the stack. You'll see some crazy strength gains on it, as well as some awesome lean mass being stacked on.
 
Conrad0032 said:
Go 2g protein/lb of BW when on cycle. So much protein synthesis going on it'll be useful :D Good choice on SERM!

Finaflex test/DAA should suffice for rebooting your test, however, if you're truly worried you can go and get clomid instead and run it 50/50/25/25. Prob come out cheaper too... but the sides will be there.

Erase pro would be a good addition but I don't see it as necessary for a 6 week cycle. Can help keep some gains I suppose, but I don't have much experience/knowledge about it. Again, if you're worried/prone to gyno you can always keep aromasin on hand if gyno occurs, but it shouldn't as it's epi and halo. The original PES Erase is a test booster, Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and a cortisol block as well; it does block cortisol.

good luck with the stack. You'll see some crazy strength gains on it, as well as some awesome lean mass being stacked on.
Click to expand...

Definitely will have the high protein intake with the boosted protein synthesis and anabolic environment going on! Yeah Ive wanted to avoid Clomid as Ive heard it can have possible eye issues and compared to Clomid/Tamoxifene that Toremifene is way better.

Awesome bro, thanks for the advice and kudos as well! I wonder if running a low dose of Aromasin on cycle as one would on a cycle of Test would help the restart faster and keep Estro low period.

Overall would you recommend this, or a simple Test Ethanate cycle? Ive done lots of research into both and I know the Test wouldn't let slip the dogs of war upon my liver near as bad. Would use the same Serm post, but take Aromasin EOD on cycle and the Finaflex pct as well.

Thanks again.
 
Halo and epi are not the best stack. Both are similar.

Halo takes two wks to really kick in and show gains, so by the time it will really begin working your going to stop in 10-15 days.

Epi works faster but is more of a cutter, u will get strength gains from it but not like halo.

If anything throw the epi up front and get a lillte more of both compounds
 
DustinLee said:
Definitely will have the high protein intake with the boosted protein synthesis and anabolic environment going on! Yeah Ive wanted to avoid Clomid as Ive heard it can have possible eye issues and compared to Clomid/Tamoxifene that Toremifene is way better.

Awesome bro, thanks for the advice and kudos as well! I wonder if running a low dose of Aromasin on cycle as one would on a cycle of Test would help the restart faster and keep Estro low period.

Overall would you recommend this, or a simple Test Ethanate cycle? Ive done lots of research into both and I know the Test wouldn't let slip the dogs of war upon my liver near as bad. Would use the same Serm post, but take Aromasin EOD on cycle and the Finaflex pct as well.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

There isn't a point of running aromasin on this cycle as they don't convert to estrogen. Also, they are rather mild so even if they did it wouldn't make much of a difference; you need estrogen in your body to function, it's important. You want to keep it in proportion to your test, not eliminated.

If this is your second cycle, I'll prob get shit from people on this board, but everyone has a right to their own opinion, I would go with the "pro hormones," even though epi is a steroid. It gives you a good idea of what you can expect from AAS. These are rather mild and will get your toes wet before you start stabbing needles into your ass and shoulders. You will learn more about how you react on PCT and with elevated test levels as well. If something happens you just have 6 weeks to ride out rather than 10 or 12. Just my take on it, everyone else on this board will most likely say TEST E!!!

This cycle will be much more liver friendly than everyone who kick starts their Test E cycle with dbol. You can get bloods done afterwards, but if you follow through with what you posted, unless you're prone to liver damage, everything should be in check a couple weeks after PCT; but if you can, it'd be best to get blood work done.. If you do decide to go Test E for whatever reason, I would throw in clomid along with Torem for recovery.

Eat over maintenance on PCT so retain gains and such and refrain from drinking/drugs.

Gymrat, epi is a "cutter" but I personally know people who have gained over 15lbs on a 4 week cycle while remaining the same BF. Kept about 10+lbs after everything was said and done. However, I do agree you can change the stack, but I feel this one will prove effective as well. Also, he can up the dose to 75 each week for halo and 50 each week for epi or whatever, but what he has will give awesome gains as well. No need to beat up the liver more if great gains are being attained at a lower dose.
 
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Conrad0032 said:
There isn't a point of running aromasin on this cycle as they don't convert to estrogen. Also, they are rather mild so even if they did it wouldn't make much of a difference; you need estrogen in your body to function, it's important. You want to keep it in proportion to your test, not eliminated.

Right. That makes sense, I know things like Test aromatise far more.

If this is your second cycle, I'll prob get shit from people on this board, but everyone has a right to their own opinion, I would go with the "pro hormones," even though epi is a steroid. It gives you a good idea of what you can expect from AAS. These are rather mild and will get your toes wet before you start stabbing needles into your ass and shoulders. You will learn more about how you react on PCT and with elevated test levels as well. If something happens you just have 6 weeks to ride out rather than 10 or 12. Just my take on it, everyone else on this board will most likely say TEST E!!!

Ok, always willing to take advice, that is what Im here for. What would the Clomid bring along with the Torem? I've just heard bad things about Clomid making people depressed and rare cases of eye damage.

This cycle will be much more liver friendly than everyone who kick starts their Test E cycle with dbol. You can get bloods done afterwards, but if you follow through with what you posted, unless you're prone to liver damage, everything should be in check a couple weeks after PCT; but if you can, it'd be best to get blood work done.. If you do decide to go Test E for whatever reason, I would throw in clomid along with Torem for recovery.

Im sure I can find somewhere nearby to get bloods done, and would prefer to do that on anything just for the sake of playing it safe.

Eat over maintenance on PCT so retain gains and such and refrain from drinking/drugs.

Gymrat, epi is a "cutter" but I personally know people who have gained over 15lbs on a 4 week cycle while remaining the same BF. Kept about 10+lbs after everything was said and done. However, I do agree you can change the stack, but I feel this one will prove effective as well. Also, he can up the dose to 75 each week for halo and 50 each week for epi or whatever, but what he has will give awesome gains as well. No need to beat up the liver more if great gains are being attained at a lower dose.
Click to expand...

Ive also heard of decent gains coming from EPI as well. Also could just run both side to side for six weeks each.

I have been doing alot of reaserch for Test and reading immensely on it, at the least I know my body already has test so not a foreign compound. Longer mellow cycle vs big gains in short amounts of time. Either way Im intrigued and determined to cycle as safe as possible. No pride or ego to get in the way of hearing wisdom/advice or respecting my limits.
 
And I dont drink or smoke or anything anymore. For awhile now actually. Bout to go Paleo as far as diet, my fridge will look like a passage way to a farmers market lol.
 
DustinLee said:
Ive also heard of decent gains coming from EPI as well. Also could just run both side to side for six weeks each.

I have been doing alot of reaserch for Test and reading immensely on it, at the least I know my body already has test so not a foreign compound. Longer mellow cycle vs big gains in short amounts of time. Either way Im intrigued and determined to cycle as safe as possible. No pride or ego to get in the way of hearing wisdom/advice or respecting my limits.
Click to expand...

Torem/Nolva block off the estrogen from interacting with the bodie's estrogen receptors, thus preventing estrogen side-effects, hence Nolva/torem are good for gyno. Clomid is more oriented towards bringing back testosterone production, however, it does block estrogen as well. So these two hand in hand will result in a proper post cycle therapy (pct). Nolva and clomid both give emotional sides and clomid, on rare occasions will cause eye problems; hence I recommend to just stick with Torem which is severely underrated as a SERM in my honest opinion. But this cycle you wrote up isn't too harsh so I think Torem/DAA will suffice.

Epistane's gains really slow down after week 4. Week 3 and 4 you will make like 85% of your gains from what I've seen. I just don't see the cost/benefit being worthwhile running it for 6 weeks due to the joint pain. It's not called havoc for no reason :P, your body might get beat up pretty bad from all the increase in weight haha. But everyone's different I suppose and you may be fine. I forgot to mention to throw in fish oil and multivitamin if you haven't already. If joints begin to act up maybe grab MSM/glucosamine with cissus. Some people say it's garbage, others swear by it... I feel like they don't help much.

I don't think you need to run both side to side. I feel at that point the sides will be increasing faster than the gains, but up to you.

A test cycle isn't necessarily mellow in my eyes. For a first cycle, running it at 500mg/week for 12 weeks can stack on 40lbs of weight by the end of it if everything is in check, and you will keep 20+lbs of that if you do shit right.

In the end evaluate your goals and see what you want to do. If you want to be competing in bodybuilding ASAP, maybe test is a better option. If you are more of a powerlifter, stick with what you have there as the test will bump you up a weight class and the strength gains aren't as insane as with havoc lb for lb. Of course there are different types of test for different goals also. If it's for girls and aesthetics, maybe you shouldn't be juicing at all haha jk everyone has their own motives no reason to judge. Use steroids as a tool to continue gaining when you reached a plateau, not as a shortcut to your goals because the journey to your goal is the funnest part :D

Edit: Farmers market ha, legit. Heard good things about paleo diets, but never done it myself. Good job on passing up drinking/smoking. A buddy of mine swears a cig post workout increases gains and he's monstrous, ha! Maybe time to test that theory O.o jk
 
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Very good information to absorb!! Thanks brother!! Yeah from all the reading and others experiences Ive seen, I think Torem if way underrated.

Yeah good ol dry joints haha. Maybe the halo longer but keep the epi short. The overlap regardless will be stronger than either solo. And I agree with you too, the sides can ramp up if on too long. Cant have everything you want in one go round thats for sure!

Definitely always have good fish oil, Use Super Cissus daily, and Im ALL ABOUT being overly cautious with stuff that helps. Maybe a little OCD...

Definitely not mellow as far as weight gain potential, I just meant as far as methylated compounds vs test. Someone that had been using test for awhile said it wasnt as harsh on your organs. But he's not a scientist thats for sure lol. Actually looked like Paul SR from OCC

As far as my goals just functional strength, some appearance, may complete locally as I have some friends that do. I'm a prepper (survivalist), so being able to take care of myself and mine is a must if SHTF.

Thanks for the props on no smoking/drinking. I honestly dont understand how some people have no ability to stop. Definitely the way to go as far as being a living organism, every other creature eats naturally. I think despite all the progress in aesthetics and synthetics we have made, that we have back slid organically.

D
 
Always good to be overly cautious... till you run out of money haha. The Epi is good at 4 weeks, if you want you can up the halo length, but honestly it looks fine. Also 6+ weeks on any methyl compound isn't smart for the most part, from what I've heard at least. Never done any oral for 6+ weeks so can't comment from experience. Good thing you got all those supps on deck as well.

True true, test is probably less harmful to the liver, however, I feel when it comes to overall body harm they are relatively the same; test may be a little better but yea... But used responsibly, there isn't too much to worry about. Really gotta take into account science and anecdotal evidence as people who use will usually say its safer than it is and science will exagerate the dangers, as with any drug. Hard not to listen to someone who looks like the Orange county chopper guy haha

Seems like you want to be an all around kind of guy, which is good. Lots of do in too little time. You'll be where you wanna be soon enough. Keep hitting it hard man.

Definitely agree with that last paragraph. Guess we've just evolved passed just hunting and reproducing, need something else to occupy our mind, whether it's scuba diving, lifting, drinking, or popping pills. I don't drink/smoke (designated driver 4 life haha xD) but each to their own. Some like partying and getting shmacked, but I'd rather go sky diving or white water rafting and see what what this world has to offer. Sorry to get side tracked on you'r thread :$
 
Haha definitely gotta keep the finances in check!! Right on then. I may run that before dipping into any pinning. Though I feel like I would be comfortable with either. And I know Ive got good peeps on here to help along the way if stuff feels like its going sideways.

Exactly right with justification of use and over bashing stuff. we always use what psychiatrist call "cognitive dissonance" which is the justification our minds use to do something that we know is not right to some degree. IE smoking though its linked to cancer etc, drugs, cheating, speeding.

Yeah, Just me and my fiance right now. Got just like 2 or 3 friends I kick it with. Have a little girl that is amazing. Just trying to enjoy everything I can. ALWAYS HIT IT HARD!

Yeah true that. I just wish things would be more simple sometimes. Not that I want anyone hurt, I just think the internet and everything technological has taken the mystery out of so much. I had my days with a number of things, but that is all long behind me. Im a curious creature I guess lol. Funny you say sky diving because me and my friend Billy are looking to get our certification so we can High Altitude jump. Lots to do out there. Let us see what we can experience with our little blip of time!
 
"Curious creature" haha, I can relate to that. Have done plenty of things a couple years back that aren't lifting-friendly... or brain-friendly for that matter :P if you catch my drift. But no regrets and in moderation I see no harm done, gotta experience everything you can like you said.
 
Lol yes indeed my friend "wink wink nudge nudge" LOL. Yeah some things are just fun to try, what can you say? I feel like some people twice my age havent put this many miles on themselves. Saw you are from or in Illinois, my best friend is from Chicago. That guy has the worst grammar and I bust his balls on it on facebook every chance I can lol.

When did you start lifting, training, etc? What do you train for if anything specific?
 
What's a nice car if you don't enjoy it eh? Gotta put those miles on. Started at 15 years old but didn't get shit together till around 16. I just like training, it keeps my life in check haha, as cliche as that sounds. Car breaks down... lift, girlfriend leaves... lift, stress... lift ha. Probably put too much emphasis on lifting even though I don't compete.

I wanna get into strongman and powerlifting eventually this year. I enjoy bodybuilding but I'm a 6'2" ectomorph so it ain't easy haha. I weigh 215-220 but if someone looks at me they'd guess 190 haha, denser muscle or something idk. My buddies 5lbs less than me and looks 20lbs heavier, but that's genetics for you. People tell me I remind them of Chris Hickson and sometimes I get Pete Rubish if you know who those guys are.
 
Totally. I was never into training at all in school or anything. My buddy Victor got me into working out in summer 06 and then he moved and I would work out occasionally but never consistently. I get really irritated now though if I cant get to the gym. And when people flake out on going it is super annoying. Cant imagine my reaction with using some oils lol.

That's what's up bro. I mean Im going for the functional strength like I said as well as just wanting to look good too and all that. I like to keep my girl happy so I do what I can. And its a good release and time use for me. Better than getting shit faced or going out all the time. My brother is your height and an ectomorph at like 155 lbs... sheesh. Just depending on your training you get denser or bigger. Dense goes with strong though more so than size I definitely think. A few of my friends that I train with look considerably bigger but can't near handle the weight or volume I do on some of my sessions. My friends say I work them out like I hate them lmao.

Yeah Im relatively familiar with those chaps! Those guys aren't massive but have some definite strength.
 
Man if people flake on me I always have a good workout from the extra anger I get haha xD Yea test and tren prob won't go well with that O.o

You can definitely control whether you get denser or bigger, but even when I train in a bodybuilding fashion, which I did for a while, I didn't get any more size than when I did powerlifting. I always read when your natural it's best to train like a powerlifter, then when on gear you'll grow like a balloon in the higher rep ranges. Your bro will get there too. I never identified myself with any bodytype till everyone I lift with told me I'm an ectomorph so I'm like I guess haha makes sense xD

That's how you gotta push your friends. I leave my buddies gasping for air on the ground after squats, then we still got accessory movements and some higher rep shit as well haha.
 
LOL yea for reals. LOL I should be fine though, Im pretty chill.

Yeah for sure. As far as powerlifting doing lots of bench, squats, deadlifts, and cleans? Lol my bro plays video games all day and drinks soda and eats junk food. That dude is going to whither up and die one day lol. He doesnt train at all. Im a mesomorph I guess.

For sure, plus I want to be a trainer so its good experience for me. After squats I superset leg ext and leg curls with 30 seconds between the 3 supersets and when Im done my legs feel like they are going to explode or tear if I bend them at all. Limp to the fountain to hydrate and then a few stretches to Hack squats and then stiff leg deadlifts. Love chest, back, and leg days
 
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