So I think I'm gonna do NPP instead of test for my first cycle

[Booger1]

Hey guys,
So I am considering doing my first cycle sometime around the middle of next year and it will be a bulk cycle. I have been hanging around here and have read a number of books over the last few months and it seems that the consensus is to go with Test for the first cycle but…. I have concerns. Now before you go ahead and press that quick reply button please take the time to read the rest of the post, I do believe I have gathered some useful information and would really appreciate your feedback.

I can almost hear the reader going…. Why the hell do you not want to use test in the first place?
I have a family history of prostate cancer and at 30 I already have an enlarged prostate. While I do want to get bigger and have somewhat resigned myself to the probability of a slow painful death under the radiation gun, I have no intentions to hasten the day. An enlarged prostate is already showing its bad effects on urination etc *sigh*….. Thus my hesitance to mess with my precious prostate.

So… what the heck does test have to do with the prostate?
It is my understanding that in accessory organs such as prostate, skin and scalp, the abundance of the 5a enzyme results in the conversion of testosterone into its stronger (in these organs) metabolite DHT. Also, if I understand correctly, it is DHT that leads to acne, hair loss and enlarged prostate… am I correct so far? If I am then this is why I don’t want to use test. If I am not correct then please orrect me and point me to some science that says otherwise.

SO what else are you gonna use?
Well, as the title suggests, I am planning on taking NPP.
it seems that when 19 Nor are reduced by the 5a enzyme, they unlike test, actually lose their androgenic potency. Further, the lack of the 5a enzyme in skeletal muscles means that while they would not lead to the normal DHT related prostate enlargement, their anabolic potency remains unchanged… right? So using NPP would give me the benefits of a class 1 steroid without the dreaded prostate hypertrophy.

Now given that I cannot use Test, what can I add to NPP that would let me prevent ‘deca dick’ and continue to have sex regularly. I cant really afford primo @ 500 mg /week for 10-12 weeks. Would the addition of another DHT derivative like Winstrol (winny) have the same effects on the prostate? What if I add OT which apparently has little AR activity along with Winny?
All adise would be greatly appreciated.

​

 

[Booger1]

Bump... I could really use some advise here guys.

 

[44inchchest]

it sounds like you have had a good read up....!

I've said this quite a few times ''but @ the end of the day its down YOU''
I have a few fellas in my area that have done a sust only cycle first time around a they love it with good gain minimal sides.... not really much advice just just remember what i said '' ''

Also if your going to anger your prostate with a certain compound by all mean head in the other direction just my 2PENCE THO!!

 

[epoxy]

Hard to get big w/o test, in my humble opinion. It is the most essential building block (the foundation) in a cycle. Are you not on any medications or supplements to help with your prostate issues?

 

[44inchchest]

maybe some PROSCAR ?

 

[44inchchest]

PROSCAR has been shown to reduce the risk of a sudden inability to pass urine, referred to as acute urinary retention, and the need for surgery—potential long-term serious consequences of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).

PROSCAR may cause side effects. Side effects due to PROSCAR may include impotence (an inability to have an erection) or less desire for sex. Some men taking PROSCAR may have changes or problems with ejaculation, such as a decrease in the amount of semen released during sex. This decrease in the amount of semen does not appear to interfere with normal sexual function. In some cases these side effects went away while the patient continued to take PROSCAR. In addition, some men may have breast enlargement and/or tenderness. You should promptly report to your doctor any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain, or nipple discharge

 

[Epic Ed]

Testosterone does not cause cancer. Taking exogenous testosterone will, however, cause an already existing cancerous tumor to grow. Especially in the prostate. Get your prostate checked and blood work done. If you have no tumor you have no reason to not use test in a cycle.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

Use of 5-alpha reductase enzymes like finasteride will stop testosterone to DHT conversion. Use 5mg a day and you will have no DHT issues.

 

[drewbolic]

good point with the finastride and blocking DHT but careful using finastride with nandrolone like deca or npp.Together they will cause conversion of DHT if I remember corectly

 

[Blondie_Bombshell]

I need paragraphs to be formed before I read all that. It makes me dizzy.

 

[Epic Ed]

I thought being dizzy was just part of being blonde.

 

[avangel]

well, I think you must have other options,

would a cycle of test really affect your prostate that much and, what are we really talking here. how bad is your prostate, what's going on down there?

I dont like dht either for my hair but I certainly wouldn't take npp only because of what it would to my dick, however maybe you'd be different.

i dont think nandrolone and Winstrol (winny) is a good idea either. I thought Winstrol (winny) was hard on hair anyway, hmm I dont know much about winny.

Regarless, best of luck my friend, and in the end really if you have any big problems with the prostate thing,, health always comes first over aas,
good luck.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I need paragraphs to be formed before I read all that. It makes me dizzy.

lol-me too

 

[gorillaglue]

I generally would never use/recommend finasteride since it seems to cause long lasting negative effects on 5AR and DHT production. I see former users complaining about chronic libido and gyno issues all the time (completely apart from ever having used AAS).

5mg/day seems like a lot. I'd use the minimum amount necessary to control the symptoms of excessive DHT if you are going to use it all (like <1mg/day if possible; 2.5mg/day max).

Combining NPP and finasteride is actually kind of interesting b/c it would prevent nandrolone from being 5 alpha reduced to its weak ass DHN metabolite and allow for more nandrolone to circulate. That should reduce the risk of gyno via an improved androgen:estrogen ratio.

You really can't beat test and tren when it comes to growing, and you can't really block the androgenic effects of tren in a sensible way, so that is perhaps not a great idea for you. If you want to find out how you react to test sooner rather than later, and don't mind frequent shots, then go with the propionate EOD and prepare for some soreness. If going this way, then you could conceivably run the prop for a few weeks, see if anything adverse happens (gyno symptoms), and then add in the NPP for 6 weeks or something and maybe finish the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle with test only for a smoother transition to post cycle therapy (pct). Using a phased, short-ester approach will be more forgiving in that it will be a bit easier to assign/guess cause and effect if adverse symptoms present (and remove the suspected offender if needed). It isn't as foolproof as running one compound at a time (no confounding variables is ideal), but I try to be pragmatic about these things.

In any event, 19-nors like NPP, deca, and tren are going to shut you down worse than test only (esp. if using finasteride with test which reduces androgenic negative HPTA feedback and thus reduces shutdown), so ideally you don't want to finish your 19-nor cycle portion without a few weeks of test to go and in your system (for said reason and for any cortisol rebound from coming off the 19-nor).

Anyway, just my $.02.

EDIT: Ehh, I just read your -entire- post (sorry, ADHD, no paragraphs, etc). If you want to use AAS and you wan't minimal to no androgenic stimulation, then you have a short list of options. Primobolan Enanthate is expensive but it provides solid gains that don't go away easily. Anavar is less cost effective than Primo, but it stacks well, and low risk of androgenic sides (though your libido may suffer on it and lethargy is likely). Turinabol is an option too. It would probably give you the most bang for your buck, but at the end of the day, no AAS is really "safe" for someone manifesting prostate issues already and in the absence of exogenous AAS. Nandrolone's good side is that it was a weak androgenic metabolite so less andro-stimulation, but that is also its downside. Without a stronger androgenic metabolite, and coupled with the shutdown induced by a 19-nor, you may find yourself the proud new owner of a pair of moobs.

 

[drewbolic]

just say no

be above the influence

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Test is best.

 

[Mr. Humdiddly]

There is just so much injudicious data I am having trouble isolating a preliminary point of rebuttal. I will attempt to utilize a serial approach.

I generally would never use/recommend finasteride since it seems to cause long lasting negative effects on 5AR and DHT production. I see former users complaining about chronic libido and gyno issues all the time (completely apart from ever having used AAS).

The pfizer drug trials related to finasteride show a 60% decrease in DHT conversion at a 1mg dose. Consensus dictates lack of exogenous testosterone conversion into DHT requires a lower dose than that purported by pfizer. However the implementation of exogenous testosterone provides a higher conversion rate for DHT. Making the 1mg dosage often dose proportionate to conversion.

5mg/day seems like a lot. I'd use the minimum amount necessary to control the symptoms of excessive DHT if you are going to use it all (like <1mg/day if possible; 2.5mg/day max).

5mg is the dosage level used in clinical trials of proscar for DHT based prostate enlargement. DHT's primary storage receptacle is hair follicles. Proscar is shown to decrease DHT conversion by a factor of 212% which incidentally is the point of conversion related to prostate enlargement.

Combining NPP and finasteride is actually kind of interesting b/c it would prevent nandrolone from being 5 alpha reduced to its weak ass DHN metabolite and allow for more nandrolone to circulate. That should reduce the risk of gyno via an improved androgen:estrogen ratio.

NPP is a 19-nor. As a result it cannot be converted by aromatase into an estrogen. Androgen to estrogen ratio related gyno is related to AAS. The concern with 19-nors is prolactin related progesterone gynecomastia.

You really can't beat test and tren when it comes to growing, and you can't really block the androgenic effects of tren in a sensible way, so that is perhaps not a great idea for you. If you want to find out how you react to test sooner rather than later, and don't mind frequent shots, then go with the propionate EOD and prepare for some soreness. If going this way, then you could conceivably run the prop for a few weeks, see if anything adverse happens (gyno symptoms), and then add in the NPP for 6 weeks or something and maybe finish the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle with test only for a smoother transition to post cycle therapy (pct). Using a phased, short-ester approach will be more forgiving in that it will be a bit easier to assign/guess cause and effect if adverse symptoms present (and remove the suspected offender if needed). It isn't as foolproof as running one compound at a time (no confounding variables is ideal), but I try to be pragmatic about these things.

Sigh this is getting tedious going to list format.

1.) He is not talking about tren.
2.) Gynecomastia is not the only symptom related to increased estrogen.
3.) As a first cycle are you really suggesting he stack test and NPP?

In any event, 19-nors like NPP, deca, and tren are going to shut you down worse than test only (esp. if using finasteride with test which reduces androgenic negative HPTA feedback and thus reduces shutdown), so ideally you don't want to finish your 19-nor cycle portion without a few weeks of test to go and in your system (for said reason and for any cortisol rebound from coming off the 19-nor).

1.) Finasteride has no effect on HPTA shutdown. It is not an exogenous source of testosterone.
2.) 19-Nor's work through increased nitrogen retention. Why are you talking about cortisol?
3.) Cortisol levels are directly associated with estrogen blood values. We have not even broached the subject of AI's but unless he was using 2.5mg of letro a day for over a month there would be no estrogen rebound thus no cortisol increase. Where the hell did you come up with cortisol rebound. Rebound signifies a suppression of cortisol which would signify that there would be no break down and rebuilding of tissues on cycle thus no growth.

EDIT: Ehh, I just read your -entire- post (sorry, ADHD, no paragraphs, etc). If you want to use AAS and you wan't minimal to no androgenic stimulation, then you have a short list of options. Primobolan Enanthate is expensive but it provides solid gains that don't go away easily. Anavar is less cost effective than Primo, but it stacks well, and low risk of androgenic sides (though your libido may suffer on it and lethargy is likely). Turinabol is an option too. It would probably give you the most bang for your buck, but at the end of the day, no AAS is really "safe" for someone manifesting prostate issues already and in the absence of exogenous AAS. Nandrolone's good side is that it was a weak androgenic metabolite so less andro-stimulation, but that is also its downside. Without a stronger androgenic metabolite, and coupled with the shutdown induced by a 19-nor, you may find yourself the proud new owner of a pair of moobs.

1.) Are you really suggesting an oral only cycle?
2.) All AAS are exogenous.
3.) Once again 19-nor gynecomastia is a result of prolacin induced progesterone gynecomastia.

OP here is the cycle for you

1-12 Test E 500mg
1-13 Finasteride 5mgED
1-12 Aromasin 17.5mg (slightly higher then usual to counter the decrease in DHT to estradiol ratio.
14-18 Clomid 100/50/50/25

 

[avangel]

I generally would never use/recommend finasteride since it seems to cause long lasting negative effects on 5AR and DHT production. I see former users complaining about chronic libido and gyno issues all the time (completely apart from ever having used AAS).

5mg/day seems like a lot. I'd use the minimum amount necessary to control the symptoms of excessive DHT if you are going to use it all (like <1mg/day if possible; 2.5mg/day max).

Combining NPP and finasteride is actually kind of interesting b/c it would prevent nandrolone from being 5 alpha reduced to its weak ass DHN metabolite and allow for more nandrolone to circulate. That should reduce the risk of gyno via an improved androgen:estrogen ratio.

You really can't beat test and tren when it comes to growing, and you can't really block the androgenic effects of tren in a sensible way, so that is perhaps not a great idea for you. If you want to find out how you react to test sooner rather than later, and don't mind frequent shots, then go with the propionate EOD and prepare for some soreness. If going this way, then you could conceivably run the prop for a few weeks, see if anything adverse happens (gyno symptoms), and then add in the NPP for 6 weeks or something and maybe finish the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle with test only for a smoother transition to post cycle therapy (pct). Using a phased, short-ester approach will be more forgiving in that it will be a bit easier to assign/guess cause and effect if adverse symptoms present (and remove the suspected offender if needed). It isn't as foolproof as running one compound at a time (no confounding variables is ideal), but I try to be pragmatic about these things.

In any event, 19-nors like NPP, deca, and tren are going to shut you down worse than test only (esp. if using finasteride with test which reduces androgenic negative HPTA feedback and thus reduces shutdown), so ideally you don't want to finish your 19-nor cycle portion without a few weeks of test to go and in your system (for said reason and for any cortisol rebound from coming off the 19-nor).

Anyway, just my $.02.

EDIT: Ehh, I just read your -entire- post (sorry, ADHD, no paragraphs, etc). If you want to use AAS and you wan't minimal to no androgenic stimulation, then you have a short list of options. Primobolan Enanthate is expensive but it provides solid gains that don't go away easily. Anavar is less cost effective than Primo, but it stacks well, and low risk of androgenic sides (though your libido may suffer on it and lethargy is likely). Turinabol is an option too. It would probably give you the most bang for your buck, but at the end of the day, no AAS is really "safe" for someone manifesting prostate issues already and in the absence of exogenous AAS. Nandrolone's good side is that it was a weak androgenic metabolite so less andro-stimulation, but that is also its downside. Without a stronger androgenic metabolite, and coupled with the shutdown induced by a 19-nor, you may find yourself the proud new owner of a pair of moobs.

that's a good read.

ya, if you can handle the prop inj then that's a good way to test the waters.

 

[44inchchest]

FUCK ME SIDE WAY'S you are just FULL TO THE BRIM with the know-how and knowledge ''i take my hat off for you sir''

 

[drewbolic]

Yea H-Diddly,they should keep you around.You have a lot of insight and you are very articulate with your witty responses,its refreshing even though have the time you lose me with your jargin.

+1