blackcatfever
New member
which gains are more keepable, gains from steroids or gains from prohormones?
steroids vs prohormones
- Thread starter blackcatfever
- Start date
cant get BIG
New member
that is pretty obvious i would have to say....steroids...bar none
gator_mclusky
Man on a Mission
Anybody really take pro hormones
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YellowJacket
Guest
250ByXmas said:
Now, lets see the references and physiological mechanisms by which that happens..... good luck.
LiQuiD_FiRe
New member
gyno?
YellowJacket said:
Well, I'm speaking from personal experience. Four years ago I thought I'd try prohormones as a legal alternative to steroids. I tried a few of the biotest products, as well as the 1-AD from PA. The spray products gave me gyno. It went through classic symptoms of itchy, to painful, to puffy, to lump. Since I was on no other steroids, do not use any rec drugs, and was old enough (29) that I certainly wasn't vulnerable to natural hormonal gyno, I blame that on the prohormones. All of the effects disappeared (except puffiness and a lump that I've never gotten rid of) when I went off the prohormones. At the time, I had no clue about anti-e's.
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YellowJacket
Guest
250ByXmas said:
Then next time you should state youre speaking from a personal opinion so we dont think you're making a real shitty generalization.
If you had no clue about anti-e (pretty much didnt have a clue of what you were doing) how can you blame the PHs? Sounds like user error to me.
YellowJacket said:
There was definitely user error. I'm sure I could have kept the gyno in check with anti-e's. My only point was that you carry the same risks of "real" steroids, with a very limited set of benefits.
And there is clearly plenty of anecdotal evidence on the boards that indicate that prohormones can cause gyno, and plenty of anecdotal evidence that the benefits of prohormones are limited compared to steroids, so I don't think that's too broad of a generalization. I suspect that the reason that we don't see a lot of medical research on side effects in the field is that prohormones fall through a legal loophole in the US which does not require any kind of human testing.
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YellowJacket
Guest
250ByXmas said:
Based on what? Your opinion again?
Then by all means, post it all. Plenty of evidence based on inaccurate and wholly incorrect opinions dont mean much to me.
YellowJacket said:
It's based on personal experience which is slightly different from personal opinion.
I'm not sure what you would accept here as evidence. The general consensus among the nutritional and sports medicin community is that even athletes require relatively low levels of protein on a daily basis. There are studies that support this. But there is an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence in the bodybuilding community that our protein requirements are much higher than most studies would indicate. We're in a similar situation. There are a lot of people who think that they got gyno from prohormones. Can we prove it? No. We're posting personal experience.
Below are five threads, on each of which someone claims that prohormones gave them gyno.
http://www.************/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98521&highlight=prohormones+gyno
http://www.************/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101299&highlight=prohormones+gyno
http://www.************/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68246&highlight=prohormones+gyno
http://www.************/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41288&highlight=prohormones+gyno
http://www.************/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23660&highlight=prohormones+gyno
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YellowJacket
Guest
250ByXmas said:
I want journal abstracts, citations, peer review articles, etc. that state and back up your claims that PHs give you gyno with minimal gains.
Oh boy, now we're comparing protein to hormonal agents? Here we go..... Science also backs up high protein diets, science backs up a lot of things, so you should have trouble finding me some science to back up what youre saying. I dont care about personal experience, thats irrelevant.
You're missing the point. You can get gyno from a lot of things, but to say they give you gyno and minimal gains, thats comical. How can you prove that? Based on what? You cant! It was an awful generalization and very inaccruate.
Bah..... should I post all the links of posts where people got gyno from steroids??? Some herbs in this world can give you gyno, OTC medication, prescription medication, etc. The point is.... people who say "dont take PHs, they give you gyno" makes me laugh. Anabolex doesnt suffice as scientific references, sorry.
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YellowJacket
Guest
You must remember, Ive argued my point probably 400 times on various boards... Im prepared 
I already know what youre going to say next...
I already know what youre going to say next...
YellowJacket said:You must remember, Ive argued my point probably 400 times on various boards... Im prepared
I already know what youre going to say next...
I didn't order a green pumpkin, I wanted a blue one, with little bells on it, so that I know when the cat is chasing it.
I don't think personal experience is irrelevant in the lack of a body of scientific evidence. Has there been a specific study made on the relation of gyno to prohormones? There is very little comprehensive research into the side effects or even the anabolic benefits of prohormones. There's even less research when you take away studies made on animals. Do you feel that there is an overwhelming body of evidence that indicates that you CAN get good results from prohormones?
I'm NOT claiming that other substances don't give you gyno. Steroids definitely do. Other supplements do. Improper diets or normal hormonal changes can cause gyno. My argument is that prohormones can cause gyno. I'm not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with this. You point out that other substances cause gyno as well, so I'll assume that you do agree that they can cause gyno. The other half of my point is that prohormones are less effective than steroids. Are you arguing that they are equally effective, or even close? I'm NOT trying to claim that prohormones are more dangerous than anabolic steroids.
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YellowJacket
Guest
250ByXmas said:
Its not real appealing to perform an experiment on common sense. Of course PHs can give you gyno, thats common knowledge, Id hope.
Knowing the biochemistry of humans, and the physiology behind the mechanism by which pro hormones work, yes.
No it isnt
Your argument is that PHs give you gyno and minimal gains, like you said before. Well of course.
More effective? Doubtful. But then again, you'd have to specify compounds. Do I think some PHs/PSs are more potent than some steroids? Yes, Id go out on a limb and argue that.
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YellowJacket
Guest
BTW- some 1-Test transdermal will help you get to 250 by Christmas
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YellowJacket
Guest
HardBody said:
Excellent argument, well I guess thats that
The legal/illegal argument is useless.... slin is legal, so I guess its weak.
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