Test, tren, dbol and hgh cycle. Diet by 3J

So we're offically started :p

Began with disinfecting my whole working table. Then layed out antibacteria wipes on table and started swabbing gear, vials, bac etc and collecting my thoughts on the order of stuff.
* Used a pilldivider to make 4 quarters of 1mg armidex, became tiny uneven and started off with the biggest piece (about 0.3mg) since bloodwork had my estro in the higher ballparks.
* Reconstituted the hcg with 5 ml bac water and transfered to a sterile vial. Went smooth.

Then starting swabbing myself lol and drew 0.8ml test prop and prepared the old arse and went with a 25g needle. Didnt even feel it going in, so huge difference compared to 21g and 23g, wondering how 27g will feel!
Then i a drew about 26 units of HCG, swabbed stomach and pinned. Also didnt feel anything and went smooth.

Now i'm going over to a friend to eat porkchops bathed in butter, garlic and thyme with some potato croquettes with a whipped creamcheese sauce nomnomnom. Considered it my "last meal supper" for a while :(

Sadly didn't get the euphoria feelings i got on the test/tren/mast stack :(

Finally kicked it off, will follow and good luck!
 
Did my quads for first time ever today, was bit nervous and used a 27g needle, went fine but took forever ever to inject with 27g.

Have some mild pip from the arse yesterday, feels like very specific local training soreness.

Looking forward to training tomorrow :D
 
Is there a big difference in 560mg vs 700mg test per week ?
Thinking mostly in terms of sides but also gains ?

I find it a lot easier to measure 1ml then 0.8ml, it feels like I'll be shooting 0.75-0.87 ml and not exactly 0.8ml, maybe its only in my head but i suffer from perfectionism and want my blood levels as stable as possible can be.
I also suspect this will only become more troublesome if/when I add tren at the end and both goes into the same pump.

Any thoughts ?
 
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In hindsight I kinda wish i went with enanthate instead of prop.
On one side I like not having to remember when I pinned last time, everyday will be pin day.
On the flip side...in a month from now...the daily pins will feel old n boring. I guarantee it :p
 
Don't have the euphoria/extreme well-being feelings from last stack/cycle but a lot of my lethargy feelings are gone, slept wonderful last night(rare with my insomnia), can really feel how I have more energy and strength.
Want to hit the gym but still holidays where I'm at and have family dinner with endless talk talk talk shortly :(
 
Is there a big difference in 560mg vs 700mg test per week ?
Thinking mostly in terms of sides but also gains ?

I find it a lot easier to measure 1ml then 0.8ml, it feels like I'll be shooting 0.75-0.87 ml and not exactly 0.8ml, maybe its only in my head but i suffer from perfectionism and want my blood levels as stable as possible can be.
I also suspect this will only become more troublesome if/when I add tren at the end and both goes into the same pump.

Any thoughts ?
good article here that touches on these points https://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/153723-300mg-vs-600mg-testosterone.html
 

I've glanced at it before and reread it now but I suck at math and sometimes just general understanding lol :(

That study talks about enanthate/cyp and at the end mentions that prop is about 15% stronger.
with 560mg per week i'll already be over the "recommended" interval of 300-600mg/week.
Upping that to 700mg per week becomes a pretty big jump when considering enanthate vs prop @ 600mg/week ?

Now i guess my question is this: Does the side-effects have an equally big jump ? And to lesser extent will the gains have similar jump ?

Since I only wanna take 1ml(100mg ED) for quality of life reasons it wouldnt be worth to risk it if the sides increase exponationally above 600mg / week
But if its negligible, I would rather take 1ml each time since its easier, faster and feels more accurate to dose.


Hope that makes sense to everyone, got bit confused in my own head writing this :p
 
700 mg/wk test prop is 581 mg of test base

560 mg/wk prop is 465 mg base

For comparison 600 mg/wk test cyp is 420 mg test base

So for comparison doing 700 mg/wk test prop is 38.5% more active ingredient than the 600 mg/wk test cyp.

Everything from effects, to sides, to amount of AI is dependent on the dosage of active ingredient. At higher doses the effects will probably start to get impacted by the law of diminishing returns where at some point more won't do anything more for you - but I think the sides would just keep going up without limit.

What's the hang up measuring 1ml vs anything else? They are all just lines on the cylinder.

If you wanted to match up to 600 mg/wk test cyp, using prop you would need 0.72ml's per day.
 
Everything from effects, to sides, to amount of AI is dependent on the dosage of active ingredient. At higher doses the effects will probably start to get impacted by the law of diminishing returns where at some point more won't do anything more for you - but I think the sides would just keep going up without limit.
What's the hang up measuring 1ml vs anything else? They are all just lines on the cylinder.

Thanks for the clarification on the test bases. I figured it was something like that with diminishing returns but what i struggle to understand is, how do you know your own "sweetspot" so to speak ?
I'm guessing it has a ton of variables, like previous cycles, how well receptors respond, genetics, how prone to sides you are etc ?
Thats why i wanted to try and match both the studies IMT linked but also the beginner sticky of 600mg/week.

Rookie nervousness i think, wanting things to be precise and perfect. 1ml is a bit better marked on the syringe but mostly its when i have to draw another compound in the same syringe i figured it will be easier to draw more exactly but have never tried that so no idea to be honest :)
 
Just have to ask. Is it normal to have pip 12-18 hours after injection ?
No lump, welt etc but its like being really sore from training (feels almost exactly like day after legs and walking stairs!) but only very local and deep around injection site.
Last cycle i only got it in my delts so stopped doing delts but now its both glutes and quads i feel it, nothing that i worry about, just cautiously curious about it :)
 
I'm guessing it has a ton of variables, like previous cycles, how well receptors respond, genetics, how prone to sides you are etc ?

Diet and sleep will be important variables you can control, they will probably do more for you than tinkering up or down the dosage.
 
Just have to ask. Is it normal to have pip 12-18 hours after injection ?
No lump, welt etc but its like being really sore from training (feels almost exactly like day after legs and walking stairs!) but only very local and deep around injection site.
Last cycle i only got it in my delts so stopped doing delts but now its both glutes and quads i feel it, nothing that i worry about, just cautiously curious about it :)
Is it a virgin site? could it be the carrier oil? what size needle did you pin with?
Great thread here on pip https://www.steroidology.com/forum/...-pip-post-inject-pain-what-does-mean-you.html
 
Diet and sleep will be important variables you can control, they will probably do more for you than tinkering up or down the dosage.

Very true!
Didn't wanna tinker up or down but figured since i've only pinned twice, now is the the to change if I'm gonna.

Just curious and if you dont mind answering, what dose would you do yourself ? 560 or 700 ? :)
 
Is it a virgin site? could it be the carrier oil? what size needle did you pin with?
Great thread here on pip https://www.steroidology.com/forum/...-pip-post-inject-pain-what-does-mean-you.html

Great link, great read, this post feels like it nailed my pip. Thanks!
I'm using prop and last time it was a stack with lower dose of prop. My delts are smallest muscles ontop of having a hard time with delts in general, bit shaky etc. Probably just made it stand out versus my bigger muscles.
Its definitely not a deal breaker pinning it ED and feels more like training soreness and dont really mind it, was just bit nervous and uncertain.
(I did not know steroids have a tendency to crash or crystallize :p)

Most people who use AAS know that some steroids have a tendency to crash, or crystalize out of solution, or the liquid that they are in. You will see crystals or sediment forming at the bottom of the vial. Testosterone propionate, t400, boldenone cypionate are the most common and notorious ******** that crash rather easily. Compounds crash because they supersaturated with hormone, and the hormone cannot stay dissolved in the solution, so it starts solidifying, or crashing, in the vial. High dosed ******** tend to crash more easily, because they are so full of the hormone that it can barely be dissolved in the liquid oil base. Test prop can crash even at 100mg, because the chemical structure of test prop does makes it not readily bond in solution, and it doesn't dissolve that well in the liquid. When you inject these oil based compounds into your muscle, they quickly begin to separate and break down. Higher dosed ********, or supersaturated ******** such as t400, prop, or bold cyp that can barely dissolve in the liquid, will crash and crystalize right in your muscle. This forces your body into an immune response, to attack the newly formed foreign body in your muscle cause redness, swelling, and pain to the touch. It is not and infection like some people think, but your body's response to a pathogen, or foreign body in your muscle. This concept of your body attacking a superfluous amount of hormone in your body at once also causes test flu. You can get flu like symptoms, run down, unambitious, and feverish from this as well.

I have seen a lot of people call gear garbage and dirty because it causes PIP, when ironically it is quite the opposite. PIP is an indication that it has so much hormone in it that it can't be contained in solution. Bacterial infections are actually hard to get with oil based ********, because oil is abiotic, and bacteria can not live in oil. This being said, The last thing I want is people running around with untreated infections because I stated this fact. Although rare, you can get an actual bacteria infection from gear made in very poor conditions with no regard for sterility, as well as bacteria can form on needles and the tops of the rubber stoppers. When you gain experience, it is easier to distinguish typical PIP from an infection or something else. It is important that if you are really in pain, and the swelling is too much and you think there is something more than PIP, there is no shame in going to a doctor. .
 
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Very true!
Didn't wanna tinker up or down but figured since i've only pinned twice, now is the the to change if I'm gonna.

Just curious and if you dont mind answering, what dose would you do yourself ? 560 or 700 ? :)
less is more from my pov. that way i can stay dialed into my ai. but thats just me since my cycle goals are always humble and i am never go for massive gains. But if i was competing or reall out there ball to the ball 700mg of test would be added for sure.
 
less is more from my pov. that way i can stay dialed into my ai. but thats just me since my cycle goals are always humble and i am never go for massive gains. But if i was competing or reall out there ball to the ball 700mg of test would be added for sure.

Thats hitting my problem on the head for sure, that makes me go back and forth and doubt myself and the dose.
I'm going for max gains but i dont wanna hit the diminishing returns tankmanbob is talking about where I'll just get more sides but not significant amount of gains.

Another day another pin, also took about 0.25mg adex today.
 
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Hitting the gym shortly :D
Assuming i have time, i'll get fresh measurements and some pictures today to kick it all off :)

Also, it might just be placebo, wishful thinking etc but my muscles have hardened up quite a lot since first shot. Nothing dramatic at all but I can feel a difference when flexing.
Didn't experience this at all last time, havent even been training so cant be pump blowup.
 
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With great strength comes even greater responsibility lol...Almost puked and fainted at the gym today. I can say with certainty the gear is working though, back pump was insane.
Was a good session though, did back, chest and some core work, pretty chill workout since I haven't told my PT I started lol..
He thinks monday is start but he's so extreme, i wanted to prepare my body a bit since I havent been in the gym for 2 weeks.

I'll post full measurements but its kinda weird, i've grown in most areas without even training.
Machine had me at 1.6% less bodyfat from last month...but machine is useless...doing caliper tomorrow.

Have to nap a bit, gym totally killed me today, ill post pictures when i wake up :)
 
With great strength comes even greater responsibility lol...Almost puked and fainted at the gym today. I can say with certainty the gear is working though, back pump was insane.
Was a good session though, did back, chest and some core work, pretty chill workout since I haven't told my PT I started lol..
He thinks monday is start but he's so extreme, i wanted to prepare my body a bit since I havent been in the gym for 2 weeks.

I'll post full measurements but its kinda weird, i've grown in most areas without even training.
Machine had me at 1.6% less bodyfat from last month...but machine is useless...doing caliper tomorrow.

Have to nap a bit, gym totally killed me today, ill post pictures when i wake up :)

thanks for the update and looking forward to the pics!
 
less is more from my pov. that way i can stay dialed into my ai. but thats just me since my cycle goals are always humble and i am never go for massive gains. But if i was competing or reall out there ball to the ball 700mg of test would be added for sure.

I'll listen to everyones advice and i'm gonna stick with 560mg per week.
My last cycle was just shy of 300mg per week so almost doubling should be well enough for this cycle and goals.
Specially since i have both var and tren laying around. ;)
 
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