Thinking of adding to 10wk 1st test only cycle--Proviron & Propecia ed-same time?????

[randy8411]

Thinking of adding to 10wk 1st test only cycle--Proviron & Propecia ed-same time?????

IS IT OKAY TO ADD PROVIRON 25MG ED AND FINASTERIDE 1MG ED AT THE SAME TIME AS THEY BOTH INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER IMO AND FINASTERIDE WOULD BE USELESS?

CAN I CONTINUE PROVIRON TWO WEEKS PAST MY post cycle therapy (pct) TO COUNTERACT ANY REBOUND AFFECT OF NOLVADEX?

ANY OTHER IDEAS ON USING PROVIRON?


ENANTHATE ONLY 1st Cycle
---------------------------------------------
DAY 1-68: 10 Week Enathate at 250mg twice wkly = 500mg wkly

DAY 1-73: 500 i.u. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) Every 5th day starting on 5th day after first shot AND last shot 6 days before starting post cycle therapy (pct)

DAY 1-100 +: Creatine 10g daily

DAY 69-80: Off

DAY 81-110: post cycle therapy (pct)
Clomid 300mg[day 1] 100mg[9 days] 50mg [11days]= 21 days

Nolvadex 40mg [14 days] 20mg [16 days] = 30 days
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MOST WORRIED about : Hair Loss and Gyno--other problems usually resolve themselves at the conservative dosages I am planning.

EXPECTATIONS: Looking to gain 15-20 solid muscle [long term] and lose body fat by tweaking diet, if possible
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Age: 25
5'9"
215LB
15-17% body fat
Training 8yrs + [4 years off from Sept 1999-Aug 2003]
TRAIN 4-6 times wkly 1:30-3:00 hrs + cardio/abs etc.
Bench 275lb+ * 4-8
Squat 315+ * 8-10
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THANKS!

 

[StoneColdNTO]

let's get this back up top for ya....^^^^

 

[DADAWG]

youve only got a 12 day gap between your last injection and starting post cycle therapy (pct) if i read it right , i would wait a couple of more days . finasteride isnt something ive ever used so i will let someone else advise you that . i love proviron at 25-50 mg a day throughout a cycle .

 

[randy8411]

youve only got a 12 day gap between your last injection and starting post cycle therapy (pct) if i read it right , i would wait a couple of more days . finasteride isnt something ive ever used so i will let someone else advise you that . i love proviron at 25-50 mg a day throughout a cycle .

Hey, thanks for pointing that out, although i got all this worked out on Microsoft excel -- I was 1 day short of 14 days, since i planned on using post cycle therapy (pct) exactly starting on the 14th day.

 

[paddy]

Bump. I would like info on this too as I am planning a very similar cycle. (BTW, use Visio instead of excel easier to map the days). I too am concerned about gyno, bloat, and also body fat. How much bf increase is typical for this cycle with a clean diet? Can you use clen while on to cut some of the fat off? Is T3 a better choice? What would you experienced bro's use to keep the fat in check as I will be running it over summer and don't want to be the fat kid on the beach

 

[randy8411]

Bump. I would like info on this too as I am planning a very similar cycle. (BTW, use Visio instead of excel easier to map the days). I too am concerned about gyno, bloat, and also body fat. How much bf increase is typical for this cycle with a clean diet? Can you use clen while on to cut some of the fat off? Is T3 a better choice? What would you experienced bro's use to keep the fat in check as I will be running it over summer and don't want to be the fat kid on the beach

I WAS GONNA ASK THE SAMETHING -- THAT IS IF CLEN WILL DO THE JOB JUST AS WELL AS PROVIRON W/OUT THE SIDE EFFECTS WITH 3 WKS ON 3 OFF JUST FOR THE ADDED POSITIVE EFFECT OF THE TEST. ALTHOUGH MY CONCERN IS NOT WITH GYNO, BLOAT NOR BODY FAT AS IT IS ONLY ONE Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) COMPOUND IMO WHICH SHOULD NOT BE THE MAIN PROBLEM(S). HOWEVER, I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT THAT ENANTHATE WOULD BRING THE BODY FAT UP EVEN ON A CLEAN DIET. IF THE FAT ACCUMULATION COULD BE SUBSTANTIAL THEN I HAVE THE SAME WORRIES.

....what is Visio?

BUMP THIS THREAD FOR THE EXPERIENCED/KNOWLEDGEABLE GUYS TO ANSWER !

 

[randy8411]

Does anyone have info or used this combination of Proviron and Propecia at same time?

 

[jj23]

"Finasteride inhibits expression of the enzyme, 5-alpha reductase, which regulates production of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). By lowering DHT levels in the scalp, it reduces DHT's harmful effect on hair follicles. Finasteride decreases DHT concentrations in the serum and the scalp by up to 70 and 60%, respectively.

Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.

Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels."

So as far as I can tell from this statement, propecia should block any 5-aplha reductase enzymes by upto 70%, and since Proviron is 5-alpha in structure it should be blocked. Now what I don't know is whether higher DHT levels equals more DHT reaching the scalp. Every board I look on, people are saying the same and that is Proviron is bad bad bad for your hair.

I'll try and do some more research because I'm curious to know myself.

 

[jj23]

Here is some more information on Proviron:

Proviron is a synthetic, orally effective androgen which does not have any anabolic characteristics. Proviron is used in school medicine to ease or cure disturbances eased by a deficiency of male sex hormones. Many athletes, for this reason, often use Proviron at the end of a steroid treatment in order to increase the reduced testosterone production. This however is not a good idea since Proviron has no effect on the body's own testosterone production but-as mentioned in the beginning-only reduces or completely eliminates the dysfunctions caused by the testosterone deficiency.

These are in particular impotence which is mostly caused by an androgen deficiency that can occur after the discontinuance of steroids, and infertility which manifests itself in a reduced sperm count and a reduced sperm quality. Proviron is therefore taken during a steroid administration or after discontinuing the use of the steroids, to eliminate a possible impotency or a reduced sexual interest. This, however does not contribute to the maintainance of strength and muscle mass after the treatment. There are other better suited compounds for this (see HCG and Clomid). For this reason Proviron is unfortunately cunsidered by many to be a useless and unnecessary compound.

You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no rebound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex.

With Proviron the athlete obtains more muscle hardness since the androgen level is increased and the estrogen concentration remains low. This, in particular, is noted positively during the preparation for a competition when used in combination with a diet. Female athletes who naturally have a higher estrogen level often supplement their steroid intake with Proviron resulting in an increased muscle hardness. In the past it was common for bodybuilders to take a daily dose of one 25 mg tablet over several weeks, sometimes even months, in order to appear hard all year round.

This was especially important for athletes appearances at guest performances, seminars and photo sessions. Today Clenbuterol is usually taken over the entire year since possible virilization symptoms cannot occur which is not yet the case with Proviron. Since Proviron is very effective male athletes usually need only 50 mg/day which means that the athlete usually takes one 25 mg tablet in the morning and another 25 mg tablet in the evening. In some cases one 25 mg tablet per day is sufficient. When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.

The side effects of Proviron in men are low at a dosage of 2-3 tablets/day so that Proviron, taken for example in combination with a steroid cycle, can be used comparatively without risk over several weeks. Since Proviron is well-tolerated by the liver liver dysfunctions do not occur in the given dosages. For athletes who are used to acting under the motto "more is better" the intake of Proviron could have a paradoxical effect.

The most common side effect of Proviron-or in this case, secondary symptom- is in part a distinct sexual overstimulation and in some cases continuous penis erection. Since this condition can be painful and lead to possible damages, a lower dosage or discontinuing the compound are the only sensible solutions. Female athletes should use Proviron with caution since possible androgenic side effects cannot be excluded. Women who want to give Proviron a try should not take more than one 25 mg tablet per day. Higher dosages and periods of intake of more than four weeks considerably increase the risk of virilization symptoms. Female athletes who have no difficulties with Proviron obtain good results with 25 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day and, in combination with a diet, report an accelerated fat breakdown and continuously harder muscles.

 

[randy8411]

jj23 thanks for posting all that info on Finasteride and Proviron.

From what i can gather from the info above, my own research, and reading individual responses to Proviron and Finasteride used on their own -- this combination may become counterproductive as the actions of one drug is offset by the other. Therefore, IMO either a person jeopardizes their hair line or the beneifts of being more cut up by taking either drug.

If anyone has never tried these two drugs together for their benefits, then all we can assume from data, studies on each, posts etc. -- is that - this is not a good combination.

 

[jj23]

I might just run it for post cycle therapy (pct) an reap the consequences...