Tren at micro dose added to a c***se

[FRITZBLITZZ]

To start off this has already been thoroughly researched and discussed for a while so please no TROLLS just constructive criticism and good advise.

So many ppl add 50-100mg of Deca, EQ, or Mast to a 200mg Test E c***se. I know plenty of ppl that say adding 100mg of nandro is absolutely unbeatable. However nobody has ever thought of adding a micro dose of Tren. I'm 6'4 282lbs but I'm 25-30lbs over. I gained the fat after a serious injury and prior to that I was a cut 255. I started my first c***se of Test C 200mg/week to keep my T at 1200 all the time in order to maintain muscle while shedding weight. This has been very frustrating, even with a 500 cal deficit on WO days and 800 cal deficit on rest days [absolute lowest possible with needed protein intake] I was losing 5 gaining 3 ect...and I'm not going to give up a pound of hard earned muscle so I thought about how great Tren is at eating fat while building muscle. I started discussing adding Tren to my c***se and after lots of research and advise it turned into a full on experimental HRT c***se:

Total of 325 anabolics, well within range of what many ppl c***se on
Tren hex 100mg
Sustanon 100mg
EQ 75 mg
Deca 50mg
MK-677 30mg

Caber 0.1mg e2week [only for Tren not nandro]
Aromasin on hand but wont need
Now ADAM multi 1 cap ED
Now Omega 1 cap ED
Now liver detoxifier 1 caps ED
Now Garlic 1 cap ED
B-NOX PWO
In case of crashed E2:
GMO Soy Milk/Soy Protein contains Xenoestrogens

Age 32
6'4
282 lbs

So I started to do a bunch of research on how each drug effects the male mechanisms and other than having a high dose of Tren in the mix they actually compliment each other. I could ramble on and on but mainly EQ helps with the lower MGs of Test and lower levels of DHT it also decreases aromatase's binding affinity to Test keeping more Free Test. Nandrolone at 50mg promotes healthy levels of progesterone [caber is only for Tren] and It attaches to the 5AR receptor which decreases the conversion to DHT, also increasing Free Test levels, but I have EQ at a good MG to do all the benefits of DHT without it lowering my Test.
When all is said and done, not only will the additional compounds have an increased muscle building effect but they will also have the side effect of keeping as much of the 100mgs of Test as Free Testosterone. The really big problem is that Tren lowers estro and EQ decreases aromitase conversion so I will have extreme low E2. However I found a scary but easy fix. GMO soy ******** contain massive amounts of Xenoestrogens. Xenoestrogens are a group of diff molecular structured estrogens that for the most part do what natty human estro does.

 

[scorob777]

Hmmmmm.....

Part of me thinks this is awesome. I did a run a while back of 200 test, 200 deca, 200 EQ that was nice. It was fairly meh for making gains, but joints felt great and gains were there but mild.

And part of me fears the mixing of tren and deca, I dabbled with that and ended up with a dick that would go limp at very inconvenient times. Took a couple months after stopping to get better, so I don't think I'll experiment along those lines again.

And last little nugget of feedback, if you think shifting fat is hard at 32 just wait a while. It doesn't get any better.

Now a couple of maybe neither here nor there comments - nandrolone attaching to the 5AR, yes it might limit conversion of test to DHT but it also results in dihydronadrolone DHN which is suppressive, lasts a long time, and can contribute to deca dick. Same for the EQ, yes it might reduce aromatase binding with test to make estrogen, but in it's place it creates another potent form of estrogen. No free lunch.

Not sure why you think tren lowers estro and the part about EQ decreasing conversion to E2. I'd bet with 100 test and 50 boldenone you'll have plenty of E2, not likely enough to need an AI but nothing to worry about being short of. And instead of eating soy why not pop a couple of dbols if you do end up short of E2.

Anyway, good read and thought provoking. Keep us posted on how it is working for you.

 

[SoHo]

tren is some harsh stuff, and if you are on that shit even at 100mg a week, you are on.

what is the problem with simply c***sing at 200-250mg test a week and a bit of EQ?

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

Hmmmmm.....

Part of me thinks this is awesome. I did a run a while back of 200 test, 200 deca, 200 EQ that was nice. It was fairly meh for making gains, but joints felt great and gains were there but mild.

And part of me fears the mixing of tren and deca, I dabbled with that and ended up with a dick that would go limp at very inconvenient times. Took a couple months after stopping to get better, so I don't think I'll experiment along those lines again.

And last little nugget of feedback, if you think shifting fat is hard at 32 just wait a while. It doesn't get any better.

Now a couple of maybe neither here nor there comments - nandrolone attaching to the 5AR, yes it might limit conversion of test to DHT but it also results in dihydronadrolone DHN which is suppressive, lasts a long time, and can contribute to deca dick. Same for the EQ, yes it might reduce aromatase binding with test to make estrogen, but in it's place it creates another potent form of estrogen. No free lunch.

Not sure why you think tren lowers estro and the part about EQ decreasing conversion to E2. I'd bet with 100 test and 50 boldenone you'll have plenty of E2, not likely enough to need an AI but nothing to worry about being short of. And instead of eating soy why not pop a couple of dbols if you do end up short of E2.

Anyway, good read and thought provoking. Keep us posted on how it is working for you.

Appreciate the info. This is an experiment! I'm not expecting some insane results since it is just a version of a cruze. I'm just seeing If you can use synergistic compounds to enhance the typical cruze. The guys I know that cruze with Test 200mg/ Deca 100mg love it but mainly because they see results in the gym and feel more powerful than just Test 200mg. They do put on a bit more size than if the stuck with 200 Test but its mainly the results in the gym. I'm trying to see if my "correct" calculations will be able to maintain relatively balanced secondary hormones while having 7x the amount of androgens in the bloodstream compared to 200mg Test.

I did my second pin today. This could be placebo, or it could just be the 125mg increase in androgens [very doubtful cuz I don't feel this energy on cycle], But ever since yesterday I have felt extreme energy. Almost wired without any stim feeling, but mostly super excited. I'm excited when I'm dead tired after 1 1/2 hours and just feel like "man this is such a great workout look at your pumps" and it's all day long. Honestly even if this does not improve a single physical thing, if it gives me this energy I'll take it. There are a few guys that wanted me to log this just because it's unheard of, so I'll try to do a weekly update with weight, body comp, sides, mood. I switch up my workout routines quite a bit so I can't really log strength increases. But if youre interested let me know, I would appreciate the support.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

I truly was not expecting a massive change and I am still skeptical but way less now. last 3 days i have insane great energy, minute i wake to sleep. its like i'm excited about everything. feels so odd honestly i'm used to grunting through everything. Last night my strength endurance [not strength just yet] seemed noticeably increased but could be just the increased energy. Now I'm convinced good or bad or ugly this will be an interesting c***se that shows very high impact results. I did the gritty math down to ester weight, increased nitrogen retention, increased binding affinity to andrgen receptor ect. but the simple version is at 325mg I'm injecting a cocktail with an anabolic rating totaling 85,000 vs 20,000 from 200mg Test!!! and the cocktail may not even upset your balance of secondary hormones any more than a Test cruze. Most ppl including me think cruzing at 200mg Test is way more powerful than a PCT to natty 750ng/dl. This is 4.25 times more powerful than an already powerful method WTF. This does not even incorporate the increased androgen binding affinity, decreased loss of Free Test to conversion to E2 & DHT, increased IGF-1, increased nitrogen retention, decreased E2, decreased body fat and on and on...

 

[scorob777]

I'm interested for sure. You could log it here, or there's another forum thread for logs.

 

[freqfly]

I would switch out your caber for pramipexole; caber can have heart valve side effects. Prami doesn't.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

I would switch out your caber for pramipexole; caber can have heart valve side effects. Prami doesn't.

That's new info to me. I respond better to caber but I have both and since I'll be on this for a while, I'll probably blast in June so I'll give it some thought.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

So here is the Sunday update. I usually rest over the weekend, play hockey or swim is the most exercise on weekends. Not today lol I have this excitement that is just great but relentless. So I did a really high rep overall upper body WO doing tons of supersets, with the supersets I did a decent amount on Shoulders [my fave to WO] arms, back, and chest I was there for about 2 1/2 hours really getting it and got about 4-5 exercises of each said muscle group. I did about 12 reps on the main muscle and mid 20's on the supersets. I'm really actually noticing a difference other than the excitement energy. Despite 100mg Tren I have more endurance, possibly from 75mg EQ. But who knows. My WO are far more aggressive. Typically I drink my PWO at the gym, play on my phone while it kicks in. Hit it hard for 1 hour [music is my key] and then I grunt through the next 45 min really wanting to get it over with. Not only improved attitude, endurance, but also pumps and veins are really growing. Keep in mind I'm 25-30 lbs over so to see branches of veins is impressive. My pump and muscle density stays for a lot longer. Maybe 2 hours after end of WO. I'm more than impressed from having results after 1 week. As long as my health stays good, this will be my new thing. I am tempted to pin tonight but I'll control myself and wait for tomorrow.

 

[freqfly]

So here is the Sunday update. I usually rest over the weekend, play hockey or swim is the most exercise on weekends. Not today lol I have this excitement that is just great but relentless. So I did a really high rep overall upper body WO doing tons of supersets, with the supersets I did a decent amount on Shoulders [my fave to WO] arms, back, and chest I was there for about 2 1/2 hours really getting it and got about 4-5 exercises of each said muscle group. I did about 12 reps on the main muscle and mid 20's on the supersets. I'm really actually noticing a difference other than the excitement energy. Despite 100mg Tren I have more endurance, possibly from 75mg EQ. But who knows. My WO are far more aggressive. Typically I drink my PWO at the gym, play on my phone while it kicks in. Hit it hard for 1 hour [music is my key] and then I grunt through the next 45 min really wanting to get it over with. Not only improved attitude, endurance, but also pumps and veins are really growing. Keep in mind I'm 25-30 lbs over so to see branches of veins is impressive. My pump and muscle density stays for a lot longer. Maybe 2 hours after end of WO. I'm more than impressed from having results after 1 week. As long as my health stays good, this will be my new thing. I am tempted to pin tonight but I'll control myself and wait for tomorrow.

Nice bro!!

 

[IMT]

So here is the Sunday update. I usually rest over the weekend, play hockey or swim is the most exercise on weekends. Not today lol I have this excitement that is just great but relentless. So I did a really high rep overall upper body WO doing tons of supersets, with the supersets I did a decent amount on Shoulders [my fave to WO] arms, back, and chest I was there for about 2 1/2 hours really getting it and got about 4-5 exercises of each said muscle group. I did about 12 reps on the main muscle and mid 20's on the supersets. I'm really actually noticing a difference other than the excitement energy. Despite 100mg Tren I have more endurance, possibly from 75mg EQ. But who knows. My WO are far more aggressive. Typically I drink my PWO at the gym, play on my phone while it kicks in. Hit it hard for 1 hour [music is my key] and then I grunt through the next 45 min really wanting to get it over with. Not only improved attitude, endurance, but also pumps and veins are really growing. Keep in mind I'm 25-30 lbs over so to see branches of veins is impressive. My pump and muscle density stays for a lot longer. Maybe 2 hours after end of WO. I'm more than impressed from having results after 1 week. As long as my health stays good, this will be my new thing. I am tempted to pin tonight but I'll control myself and wait for tomorrow.

Thanks for the update!

 

[Mycelium]

I must be lucky. Maybe my higher SHBG. 200mg wk test cyp had me over 1500 the day of, but before my 100mg every 3.5 days dosing. I had pinned 500ui hCG the day before but Im still bot sure Id be 1200. If I hold on to test and run higher levels that's fine with me!! I've dropped to 160mg wk and am still holding the highest body weight I ever have with mediocre diet and infrequent but intense lifting.

Anyways sorry for the shirt thread jacking.

Anyway . . . .

*"325mg I'm injecting a cocktail with an anabolic rating totaling 85,000 vs 20,000 from 200mg Test."

What's your math equation? I understand anabolic/androgenic ratings. Basically rating x mg of AAS? 200mg test x 100 rating = 20,000 right? Except you broke it down per compound so it would be the sum of the different juices in the cocktail? I don't really need it wrote out unless you want to. Just curious. I love quantification of data.

Definitely have my interest to follow along. I'm on TRT so the freedom to dabble while crewsing has always lingered in the back of my head. Personal experimentation with numbers and labs. My personal experiement I want to run is labs pre HCG and then 24 hours later tobsee elevation in TT, freeT and E. Not really an experiment as much as a measurement.

Keep posting/logging and feed us labs yo!!! Loving it so far. I'll tale as much information as you feel like typing in / giving out.

 

[scorob777]

Yeah, I want to see the math too.

100 mg Test Sust

Test Prop 12 mg = 10.0 mg test base
Test PP 24 mg = 16.5 mg test base
Test Isocaproate 24 mg = 17.9 mg test base
Test Deca 40 mg = 26.1 mg test base

Total Test Base = 70.4 * 100 anabolic = 7,039 (70 mg/day test base is about what a normal person makes, so this is about baseline)

100 mg Tren Hex = 65.9 mg tren base * 500 anabolic = 32,927

75 Boldenone Und = 47.5 mg bold base * 100 anabolic = 4,745

50 Nandrolone Deca = 32.0 mg Nand base * 125 anabolic = 4,000

Total anabolic rating 48,712 compared to 70 mg test base natural production of 7,000 = 6.96x increase

So this is more powerful than a 500 mg/wk Test Cyp cycle, which is about 5x. Sounds great, but don't fool yourself that you are cruzing, this is a cycle.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

I must be lucky. Maybe my higher SHBG. 200mg wk test cyp had me over 1500 the day of, but before my 100mg every 3.5 days dosing. I had pinned 500ui hCG the day before but Im still bot sure Id be 1200. If I hold on to test and run higher levels that's fine with me!! I've dropped to 160mg wk and am still holding the highest body weight I ever have with mediocre diet and infrequent but intense lifting.

Anyways sorry for the shirt thread jacking.

Anyway . . . .

*"325mg I'm injecting a cocktail with an anabolic rating totaling 85,000 vs 20,000 from 200mg Test."

What's your math equation? I understand anabolic/androgenic ratings. Basically rating x mg of AAS? 200mg test x 100 rating = 20,000 right? Except you broke it down per compound so it would be the sum of the different juices in the cocktail? I don't really need it wrote out unless you want to. Just curious. I love quantification of data.

Definitely have my interest to follow along. I'm on TRT so the freedom to dabble while crewsing has always lingered in the back of my head. Personal experimentation with numbers and labs. My personal experiement I want to run is labs pre HCG and then 24 hours later tobsee elevation in TT, freeT and E. Not really an experiment as much as a measurement.

Keep posting/logging and feed us labs yo!!! Loving it so far. I'll tale as much information as you feel like typing in / giving out.

Your post is a bit scattered as far as what youre saying and what you want to know. So I'll try my best to give more details about this:

So I was just expecting for TT to be at 1200, Last BW was very far from any PCT or Cycle and my TT 780 [250-960] FT was 280 [56-242] But I felt that having TT approx 1200 in my blood 24/7 rather than 700 in the morning then 450 in evening or whatever, it is just not continuously elevated where 1200 or maybe 1400 [It was a educated guess] would provide superior muscle retention while I was just barely meeting my protein goals and deff not feeding my muscles enough carbs to keep them happy.

So rewind the tape...I was mainly trying to lose this extra weight fast because I was going on a large 5 month cycle with transitioning compounds, and last 2 months included Tren. I was told that most gear has less of an effect when you have excess fat and it increases estro conversion and few things that made me want this fat off before cycle. I started getting frustrated with my fat loss and was restructuring my cycle to include Tren at the beginning and the end. JSYK I plan cycles out like a nuclear physicist: I calculate the ester size/ml, the compounds half life/active life, I also calculate the nitrogen retention of this ester vs another, and I come up with the least amount of MGs ran for the most effective time. I also calculate the attraction to the Adro receptor to make sure I'm not combining a dominant compound in such large amounts that it decreases the effectiveness of a secondary compound with less Adro receptor affinity. The intended result is that every mcg of gear has it's effect and even when dosing around a gram of gear none of it is being metabolized before having an effect and that the combo of compounds have a synergistic effect on nitrogen retention/ hyperplasia/ hypotrophy ect.

So by me adding Tren at the beginning to allow me to start the cycle and shed the weight with Tren doing it's thing, This would monkey with my EXHAUSTIVE well calculated cycle. I could do it but I might as well start from square 1 at building the cycle. Then BAM it hit me "why can't I just add 100mg Tren to 100mg Test and let that be my c***se?" So it was discussed and debated to the point where it came to a full HRT program with 4 compounds with the right esters to be used for a c***se. My 4.25x more powerful anabolic effect compared to 200mg of Test was just the short way of using the Anabolic/Androgenic rating chart like you mentioned. But when the esters life are calculated it's actually more like 5x stronger but all that is to hard to wright.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

Yeah, I want to see the math too.

100 mg Test Sust

Test Prop 12 mg = 10.0 mg test base
Test PP 12 mg = 16.5 mg test base
Test Isocaproate 24 mg = 17.9 mg test base
Test Deca 40 mg = 26.1 mg test base

Total Test Base = 70.4 * 100 anabolic = 7,039 (70 mg/day test base is about what a normal person makes, so this is about baseline)

100 mg Tren Hex = 65.9 mg tren base * 500 anabolic = 32,927

75 Boldenone Und = 47.5 mg bold base * 100 anabolic = 4,745

50 Nandrolone Deca = 32.0 mg Nand base * 125 anabolic = 4,000

Total anabolic rating 48,712 compared to 70 mg test base natural production of 7,000 = 6.96x increase

So this is more powerful than a 500 mg/wk Test Cyp cycle, which is about 5x. Sounds great, but don't fool yourself that you are cruzing, this is a cycle.

Honestly there are many ways to calculate it depending on what you include in the calculation. I have a friend that is a Pro BB, not famous but he has all the knowledge that I use. He blows my mind with what he knows about every tiny thing. We did the calc including many variables but to simplify on post I calc mgx anabolic rating [just to simplify]

THIS IS NOT A CYCLE...I can see that you are comparing the effectiveness of these 4 compounds to natty T. But I am just changing the compounds used for a c***ze, the fact that the combination should have all the positive effects of 200mg Test but also including a massive increase in the muscle regulatory system via many diff mechanisms does not make it a cycle...Just like the first guys adding 50-100mg of Mast or Deca to their c***ze were not turning their c***se into a cycle, I am just taking HRT to the max!!!

This is an experiment not only to see the positive and negative of running these compounds compared to 200mg Test. This is also an experiment to see if you can truly keep all positive body functions that 200mg Test would bring with this cocktail, and also keep from having any serious negative side effects when compared to 200mg Test. If I succeed I will have taken a c***ze or TRT and turned it into a massively more potent anabolic HRT without any side effects that Test only would bring. I can see how you look at this as a low dose cycle but I know a very few guys on 300mg Test as their TRT and plenty of guys that add a tiny something to their TRT or c***ze. Please look at the total MGs entering the body rather than it's potency and you'll say "yah that's a lil high MG c***ze" Then you look at the hypothetical effect and say "that is an extremely powerful c***se" Keep in mind I'm also testing if the rest of my body functions without much additional help. IE some guys on TRT need an AI so I may need a lil caber or prami but time will tell at these MGs I may need nothing, the body can balance it's self when exposed to low doses over time compared to massive increases that bring a shock to the Hypo Pit axis.

 

[palmers]

Reading this made me interested in this whole micro dose thing, i tried googling it to find more info but it just kept showing links to people who want to do oral only cycles or 50mg of deca over 3 weeks so "they can stay natural" bunch of dumb stuff. This is an interesting thread!!

 

[Oldbastard72]

Excellent info will follow.

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

Reading this made me interested in this whole micro dose thing, i tried googling it to find more info but it just kept showing links to people who want to do oral only cycles or 50mg of deca over 3 weeks so "they can stay natural" bunch of dumb stuff. This is an interesting thread!!

I have discussed it with many ppl "in the know" and as far them and all the boards they post on, I seem to be the first person to think of a full on balanced micro-dosed HRT. Of course time will tell how it works out but, I'm not being bi est at all when I say I am incredibly shocked by the speed of change/results. I will throw in an update tomorrow cuz it's my bed time and got to get that sleep in for beast building

 

[scorob777]

THIS IS NOT A CYCLE...I can see that you are comparing the effectiveness of these 4 compounds to natty T. But I am just changing the compounds used for a c***ze, the fact that the combination should have all the positive effects of 200mg Test but also including a massive increase in the muscle regulatory system via many diff mechanisms does not make it a cycle...Just like the first guys adding 50-100mg of Mast or Deca to their c***ze were not turning their c***se into a cycle, I am just taking HRT to the max!!!

This is a cycle not a cruze, my point is you are putting your body through hell and not getting any time off to detox and downregulate and get ready for your next blast. Don't let what you think are low doses fool you, in combination they are quite high.

One way to check that would be to see effect on your bloodwork. What do your hematocrit, lipids, kidneys, and liver do on this? What is the effect over time on your thyroid? How do the deca and tren play together after a while?

I'm afraid that this cycle masquerading as a low dose cruze won't let you reset on those things, so you won't get the benefit of ever coming off.

Do you have end of cycle bloods from your last blast, and recent bloods, to put up and compare?

 

[FRITZBLITZZ]

This is a cycle not a cruze, my point is you are putting your body through hell and not getting any time off to detox and downregulate and get ready for your next blast. Don't let what you think are low doses fool you, in combination they are quite high.

One way to check that would be to see effect on your bloodwork. What do your hematocrit, lipids, kidneys, and liver do on this? What is the effect over time on your thyroid? How do the deca and tren play together after a while?

I'm afraid that this cycle masquerading as a low dose cruze won't let you reset on those things, so you won't get the benefit of ever coming off.

Do you have end of cycle bloods from your last blast, and recent bloods, to put up and compare?

Dude I am really tired of arguing with you THIS IS A CRUZE now go somewhere else if you just want to argue and keep saying the same thing. Seriously, no one else thinks this is a cycle anymore than the guy prescribed Test-C 300mg/Aromasin 12.5mg/HCG 500iu/T3 100mcg/ T4 200mcg. And I have come across a few guys that have Dynabol [nandro-C] prescribed along with their TRT so just stop. But if I cut away all your nomenclature BS, I do agree if it can't be run for around 3 months or more without messing up lipids, liver enzymes, BP and most of all vascular flexibility than it can't really be used in place of just Test. But Just like the example above if there needs to be 1 or 2 added ancillaries to make it work than it may still be the Powerhouse cruze that I think it is. I had BW back in Nov 2017 and was far away from any cycle and this is still my first cruze even though I decided to revolutionize it. I will have full BW done in 2-3 months prior to my next cycle. Along the way I will have small tests though. My town has a central medical database so I can't go to the hospital or wherever to get BW without my doc being able to see it. Which even if it was all norm would draw suspicion as to why I didn't go see him and then he might look at me and order a hormone test. But I was looking at an expensive but handy home testing device that does BP, BG, Hematacrit, I think simple lipids and more.