Tren Bulking, Not clean diet approach and experiences needed

[omgmike1]

OP- are you truly eating 3 lbs of pasta a day or is that the total weight of the meal? why so many carbs and so little protein?

for the reasons i listed below, but it equates to about 250g +/- protein for sure. I don't think u need as much as people say tbh to make good gains, it's commonly over eated and eating more just costs more, slows digestion, not good for kidneys ect...

It's about 4 lbs of COOKED pasta per day, but as of normally I been eating something like pasta as meal 1, then McDonalds meal 2, Pasta meal 3, Junk food meal 4 ect..

When I go to fast food places I don't pick the heavy junk stuff. Like for example I pick a hamburger (3 of them) each one has 12g prot, 6-8g fat, 15g+ carbs, 400mg sodium.

I factor in the ratios and total calories. the only thing I'm finding with fast food is that too much sodium if eaten can make u sick for sure and the dietary fat can rack up pretty quick.

Dude, I'm no dietician, but I do know that eating the same fricking meal 4/5 times a day is gonna wear thin after a while!

Spaghetti sauce x4!!!

Where's the fish? Where's the turkey? Where's the red meat?

Carbs: Where's the rice? Where's the sweet potato? Where's the white potato? Where's the Cous-cous? Quinoa?

It's hardly surprising you opted for junk with that blinkered mindset.

You really need to start putting diet BEFORE drugs - because it doesn't matter how good your gear is, or how much you take - you can't out-drug a shite diet.

that diet set up is pretty good actually in terms of health. It's low-moderate sodium, it's roughly 250 +/- Protein.. not too high or too low because too much protein slows digestion and is bad for kidneys, It's high complex carbs mixed with few simple sugars. it's a good setup.. Each meal is about:

1lb Spagetti w/Sauce, 4 Oz chicken, 2 Fiber Bars (525/70 cals, 130 cals, 240 cals)

I don't see any diff in eating rice or anything else u listed. Whole grain spaghetti pasta is macros wise as GOOD if not better than standard oatmeal. U can't go wrong there. Just the amount of room it takes is too much and the rate of digestion is backing me up. If I wanted 500-600 cals of a all carb source primary.. then it equates to a large volume of stomach room to be held for it. thats why im struggling.

It's 5 oz spag dry = about 1b of it cooked. Mainly cause it holds all the water. Same goes with oatmeal and rice once it's increased in size. I been having cheat meals cause higher calories with lower volume and it digests faster. I don't buy expensive foods like red meats on a daily too for obv reasons as a college student.

my diet is set for me to grow and increase calories when my weight is going slow or stable for a week in a row. I know ur looking down upon me for what i said about diet, but I'm telling u that I use to eat clean food ALL the time. No diet sodas, no junk. I wouldn't eat a snicker bar for like 100$ if some 1 said to me. Over the last year n a half I've made little to no progress, even with drug use because my diet was not set for me to grow. I don't think it had to do with clean calories, but the sheer fact I was eating only nearly around matience or below. I never even got stronger too over time tbh before. Not that I'm eating more surplus, seems like the drugs are working better, my str is up on everything, My past long term injury on the forearm is cleaned up out of the blue since the past 3 weeks. I'm not going to lie I put on a bit of fat around the area, but I truly see it as a temp thing.

I blast and cruise. I'm not sure why every 1 is hating on the fact of me cutting after my bulk? I was planning on a 12 week cycle total. 1.5-2lb a week is the goal, then I was going to drop the tren and run about 500mg test and cruise on that while I cut down in a keto style for maybe 15 weeks or till I'm lean as can be. Whats wrong with this concept here? I get if u cycle, then u want to wait.. for B.C, whats the rush? Doesn't it seem more optimal to cut during cruise time....

 

[soldier74]

Man, I say do what works for you. I've said it before, got flamed for.it, and I'll say it again. I DONT COUNT THE CALORIES I EAT A DAY. Oh well, I know about what I need to eat to get/be where I want to be and it works and been working. I workout for health and its therapeutic, both mentally and physically. I get compliments on my physique a lot and that's nice too. Do what works for you bro. Let.the haters hate.....that's what haters do. As long as your happy. Life's too short for anything other than that.

 

[anzel]

Op. Seriously you said " you don't know why everyone ishould hating on the fact of cutting after your bulk"....???

Let's make another try here.
When u bulk you put on some fat and muscle correct?
When u cut you lose some fat and muscle correct?
So when u bulk you are in surplus. Right?
When you cut you're in deficit...ok?
So right in between bulk and cut is maintenance.... that's the calories you need to maintain current weight.
When you bulk you get heavier. So FIRST you have to drop to maintenence. And hold your bodyweight where it's at. After 2 to 3 months you have allowed your body to adapt to the size you put on. Without the adaption you are only primed to lose it all when you cut.
It goes the same way when you cut. You need to maintain.
I'm not making this shit up. Research it yourself.

How come more than one person has said this to you and you ? Because it's rather common knowledge.

 

[3J]

sounds like you have a motivation issue.. dont know why you would start such a cycle when youre not motivated to stick to a proper program?

 

[Matt0071]

for the reasons i listed below, but it equates to about 250g +/- protein for sure. I don't think u need as much as people say tbh to make good gains, it's commonly over eated and eating more just costs more, slows digestion, not good for kidneys ect...

It's about 4 lbs of COOKED pasta per day, but as of normally I been eating something like pasta as meal 1, then McDonalds meal 2, Pasta meal 3, Junk food meal 4 ect..

When I go to fast food places I don't pick the heavy junk stuff. Like for example I pick a hamburger (3 of them) each one has 12g prot, 6-8g fat, 15g+ carbs, 400mg sodium.

I factor in the ratios and total calories. the only thing I'm finding with fast food is that too much sodium if eaten can make u sick for sure and the dietary fat can rack up pretty quick.



that diet set up is pretty good actually in terms of health. It's low-moderate sodium, it's roughly 250 +/- Protein.. not too high or too low because too much protein slows digestion and is bad for kidneys, It's high complex carbs mixed with few simple sugars. it's a good setup.. Each meal is about:

1lb Spagetti w/Sauce, 4 Oz chicken, 2 Fiber Bars (525/70 cals, 130 cals, 240 cals)

I don't see any diff in eating rice or anything else u listed. Whole grain spaghetti pasta is macros wise as GOOD if not better than standard oatmeal. U can't go wrong there. Just the amount of room it takes is too much and the rate of digestion is backing me up. If I wanted 500-600 cals of a all carb source primary.. then it equates to a large volume of stomach room to be held for it. thats why im struggling.

It's 5 oz spag dry = about 1b of it cooked. Mainly cause it holds all the water. Same goes with oatmeal and rice once it's increased in size. I been having cheat meals cause higher calories with lower volume and it digests faster. I don't buy expensive foods like red meats on a daily too for obv reasons as a college student.

my diet is set for me to grow and increase calories when my weight is going slow or stable for a week in a row. I know ur looking down upon me for what i said about diet, but I'm telling u that I use to eat clean food ALL the time. No diet sodas, no junk. I wouldn't eat a snicker bar for like 100$ if some 1 said to me. Over the last year n a half I've made little to no progress, even with drug use because my diet was not set for me to grow. I don't think it had to do with clean calories, but the sheer fact I was eating only nearly around matience or below. I never even got stronger too over time tbh before. Not that I'm eating more surplus, seems like the drugs are working better, my str is up on everything, My past long term injury on the forearm is cleaned up out of the blue since the past 3 weeks. I'm not going to lie I put on a bit of fat around the area, but I truly see it as a temp thing.

I blast and cruise. I'm not sure why every 1 is hating on the fact of me cutting after my bulk? I was planning on a 12 week cycle total. 1.5-2lb a week is the goal, then I was going to drop the tren and run about 500mg test and cruise on that while I cut down in a keto style for maybe 15 weeks or till I'm lean as can be. Whats wrong with this concept here? I get if u cycle, then u want to wait.. for B.C, whats the rush? Doesn't it seem more optimal to cut during cruise time....

Well u say about protein some dudes overdue it
Well i dont know your stats but i think i remember u saying u were 180-190lbs and u eating all those carbs?
U think your body really needs that amount of carbs to grow
Geez i am on a high pro (340g pro ed, high fat, low carb ( under 50g carbs a day) and sitting at 227lbs
To top it off all the junk food u mentioned
I dont know how u begin to goto the gym after eating junk
My mind is dif i guess but if i eat junk before considering hitting thr gym i am not going period

 

[soldier74]

Man, I say do what works for you. I've said it before, got flamed for.it, and I'll say it again. I DONT COUNT THE CALORIES I EAT A DAY. Oh well, I know about what I need to eat to get/be where I want to be and it works and been working. I workout for health and its therapeutic, both mentally and physically. I get compliments on my physique a lot and that's nice too. Do what works for you bro. Let.the haters hate.....that's what haters do. As long as your happy. Life's too short for anything other than that.

Let me also add that there are good points made here that u should take into consideration OP. Sometimes u gotta.sift thru but it's there, usually is.

 

[Matt0071]

Maybe try switching up your diet bro
High pro, high fat, low carb
Since u a ground beef guy like myself
But with my 8oz ground beef, i have 7oz chicken breast ( meat being weighed raw) for instance
U should weigh your meat raw bro, pasta cooked

 

[omgmike1]

Man, I say do what works for you. I've said it before, got flamed for.it, and I'll say it again. I DONT COUNT THE CALORIES I EAT A DAY. Oh well, I know about what I need to eat to get/be where I want to be and it works and been working. I workout for health and its therapeutic, both mentally and physically. I get compliments on my physique a lot and that's nice too. Do what works for you bro. Let.the haters hate.....that's what haters do. As long as your happy. Life's too short for anything other than that.

I hear people don't count calories and still look good. The problem becomes in the long term if u want more mass. U can only eat so much in a day honestly and if u don't have a base line to aim for each day, then ur basically just winging it. I feel like thats a waste of time for bulking. Just my thoughts.

Op. Seriously you said " you don't know why everyone ishould hating on the fact of cutting after your bulk"....???

Let's make another try here.
When u bulk you put on some fat and muscle correct?
When u cut you lose some fat and muscle correct?
So when u bulk you are in surplus. Right?
When you cut you're in deficit...ok?
So right in between bulk and cut is maintenance.... that's the calories you need to maintain current weight.
When you bulk you get heavier. So FIRST you have to drop to maintenence. And hold your bodyweight where it's at. After 2 to 3 months you have allowed your body to adapt to the size you put on. Without the adaption you are only primed to lose it all when you cut.
It goes the same way when you cut. You need to maintain.
I'm not making this shit up. Research it yourself.

How come more than one person has said this to you and you ? Because it's rather common knowledge.

I've never heard of this after BB for over 4-5 years. I just know the common bulk and cut routines. Who wants to bulk up and get big and sit like that with no progress at matience calories for months on end, then finally cutting...? Those 2 months sitting around like a over bulked cow could be used to drop lots of BF. I think the muscle loss thing is over rated. How hard u have to work to put it on, it's not coming off as easily as u think as long as u keep ur goals straight such as: Target to burn the fat and Target to save the muscle using common methods. Let alone the constant flow of 500mg test in the body should keep u anabolic at most times.

sounds like you have a motivation issue.. dont know why you would start such a cycle when youre not motivated to stick to a proper program?

My aim in the gym is to grow. Since I'm not very tall, there is only so much mass i can hold. I been working at it the best of my ability year round, using AAS and everything to gain size. Sure there will be a cut out point and I'll stick to cruise dosage once I fit my frame IMO and am lean enough. Still going to take years to achieve and I see no point in wasting time. AAS may cost a lot and same with some food, but the thing is time is the only one that u cant re-earn. I'm motivated enough to keep going and not stop, it's just getting harder each time for me to grow more. My calorie intake is what drives me crazy. How can I be hardly gaining weight eating over 4500 cals at 5'75 195 working out for 1.5 hours only. I do lots of sets/drop sets, but this is crazy..

 

[soldier74]

Yeah man, winging it is my specialty...lol. But seriously, I'm good where I'm at. And at 42 I'm really not trying to get "bigger". I'm happy just staying healthy, somewhat ripped, and feeling good about myself. To each his own, my thought.

 

[anzel]

Incidentally you said you get very full and backed up feeling and have trouble eating enough..... maybe it's the pasta?
Carbs and protein each are 4 grams per calorie. So start dropping pasta and drop on equal protein. Maybe u will feelore like eating the rest of the day.

 

[bigben66]

Yeah man, winging it is my specialty...lol. But seriously, I'm good where I'm at. And at 42 I'm really not trying to get "bigger". I'm happy just staying healthy, somewhat ripped, and feeling good about myself. To each his own, my thought.

Awful advice Soldier.... you may very well be in decent shape and still not count macros, but I'd say that is a lot to do with good fortune and the ability to know your OWN body.

To recommend to someone who clearly has dietary issues NOT to count macros or follow a structured plan is hideous advice.

Quite simply - if you don't track your intake - how can you adjust it when shit goes wrong?!

You can't!

 

[soldier74]

Awful advice Soldier.... you may very well be in decent shape and still not count macros, but I'd say that is a lot to do with good fortune and the ability to know your OWN body.

To recommend to someone who clearly has dietary issues NOT to count macros or follow a structured plan is hideous advice.

Quite simply - if you don't track your intake - how can you adjust it when shit goes wrong?!

You can't!

I hear ya BB. But I wasn't advising anybody anything. I was just saying what I do. I told OP do what works for him in earlier post. I definantly wouldn't recommend anybody to follow my ideaology on dieting. My personal focus when it comes to working out is to be healthy mainly and of course keep a nice physique. Maintaining is more where I'm at these days. I suppose if I ever had an itch to put on some size then, yeah, I'd sit down and figure my current macros and figure what I need to add to achieve a goal. That's just not where I'm at today tho. So like I said b4, to each his own. Do what works for you!

 

[soldier74]

My advise to OP is this: put the ear buds in, crank the Pantera(Far beyond Driven for me), and kill that shit!!!

 

[bigben66]

I hear ya BB. But I wasn't advising anybody anything. I was just saying what I do. I told OP do what works for him in earlier post. I definantly wouldn't recommend anybody to follow my ideaology on dieting.

Point taken.
But just be careful... OP clearly came here asking for input on dietary issues, the last thing he needs to hear is "wing it!"

 

[bigben66]

Maintaining is more where I'm at these days. I suppose if I ever had an itch to put on some size then, yeah, I'd sit down and figure my current macros and figure what I need to add to achieve a goal.

See that is what I don't get.... you can easily 'maintain' without the risk of drugs, just by watching your dietary intake.

But you (and a great deal of others) are happy "winging" your diet whilst wanting the drugs to do the work.

That is just arse about face in my eyes.

And before I hear people telling me to wind my neck in and don't say anything unless it is productive - surely this is as productive as it gets?

I'm all for people taking drugs to create a better version of themselves.

But to take drugs and eat a shit diet - just to maintain their current form - that's just wrong.

 

[soldier74]

Lol. Who said anything about eating shit diet?? I EAT good bro. I just don't count my macros, currently.Baked fish daily, chicken, steak, taters, oats, ect, ect. I'm not one that believes in just throwing anything down the pie hole and let the drugs do the work . Remember, my main goal here is a healthy lifestyle. Trt patient who enjoys a nice responsible blast on occasion to put it exact. I'm sure your theory applies to some bro but not this kid. Just sayin.

 

[soldier74]

Oh yeah, obviously OP started this thread about eating like shit and letting the drugs do their thing. My advise: don't do that....for the record. Lol

 

[soldier74]

...take it of leave it. But then again if it works for you and that approach gets u where u want to be then I'll stay out of it. My opinion has been stated on the matter.

 

[Milton]

keep us posted OP.

 

[omgmike1]

Incidentally you said you get very full and backed up feeling and have trouble eating enough..... maybe it's the pasta?
Carbs and protein each are 4 grams per calorie. So start dropping pasta and drop on equal protein. Maybe u will feelore like eating the rest of the day.

I'm fairly certain that pasta or carbs source digest faster than protein. I can tell u first hand that eating way too much protein at once will back u up for hours. There is a good reason I'm limiting it. It's clearly over done by everyone now a days, but when ur total calories for the day is like 3000-3500, then it doesnt matter how fast food digests. It's such a small amount to intake.

See that is what I don't get.... you can easily 'maintain' without the risk of drugs, just by watching your dietary intake.

But you (and a great deal of others) are happy "winging" your diet whilst wanting the drugs to do the work.

That is just arse about face in my eyes.

And before I hear people telling me to wind my neck in and don't say anything unless it is productive - surely this is as productive as it gets?

I'm all for people taking drugs to create a better version of themselves.

But to take drugs and eat a shit diet - just to maintain their current form - that's just wrong.

I value ur advice, but the guys that eat 5000-8000 calories a day to keep or build size. Do u really think that a huge amount of it is clean food and health food?
What your saying to me is much easier said than done. I MIGHT beable to get in 4900 calories (currently upped it cause weight stalled), but it's a all day thing non-stop. I can't just sit and eat every 2 hours and feel like stuffed monkey. It's not a good way to live life tbh, even for a short time.

I see these pro BB eat out all the time, they travel and everything and there is a reason they are so big compared to the vast majority of bodybuilders. I know it's been said that they use tons more gear, but I don't really think it's that much more than a amateur, the diff is just the total calories they keep raising, while smaller guys will not raise them to a higher extent and everytime they bulk up again and gain, they eat the same rough amount, when it needs to be more than before to grow more than what u looked like.


I been eating junk, but I can see the fat and the muscle gains coming on when my weight is going up as well. It is a trade off for massive size. I have about 7 weeks left. I'm going to stick to my guns here and keep doing what I know: Eating more to grow and always raise calories, lift intense for 1.5 hours, use aas for recovery, keep my micros in check for health.

I'm going to just settle it and in terms of diet, I'll get my 250g protein in one way or another for a start, I'll get in 1-2 Pasta Meals whole grain for the fiber. Each pasta meal is about 90g fiber carbs based, then I'll get in my simple sugars when needed pre and post workout and the remainder I'll just fill in with fast food/fatty meals (potatoe salad, eggs, cookies) and see where it leads me too.

I've eaten clean and my gains where stable and went no where. The second I manage to rack in more less healthy food, it's easier to get in and I end up growing. It's worth a shot for the remainder of the weeks and worst comes to worst, I'll just cut every bit of fat off and set my priorities in life back to normal. meaning bodybuilding has to come down the line and school/GF/Life needs to be put above.