Triptorelin

[joei rock]

i wish i knew what my T levels were b4 cycle .. i screwed up and didnt get any bloodwork done .. just pulled a time on= time off guess type deal .. but this time i will know for sure.. im only 2 cycles in to what i think will be a long ride !!!

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you guys are tripping me out, lay off the crack.

seriously though, that is super weird and seems like a shitty side effect.

I think you should wait at least a couple weeks after SERM.

 

[johnCream1]

found this.... what do you guys think in regard to the trip shot..?


Admin,

Here follows a short reply to the question..

Triptorelin, as far as my knowledge, is no longer available in South Africa. It has been replaced by the GnRH analogues Buserelin ( Suprefact by Sanofi), Goserelin (Zoladex by AstraZeneca) and Leuprorelin (Lucrin by Abbott Labs). Buserelin and Leuprorelin are indicated in the use of advanced prostatic cancer, where total suppression of testosterone is needed - hence the dosages range from 9,9 milligrams to 11,25milligrams - read medical "castration" levels. Zoladex is indicated for advanced breast cancer, also at high dosages.

I've known about the GnRH analogues for many years. So, why have I not used it as post cycle therapy (pct)? Simple answer - your HPT-axis is a very sensitive system. Once you have buggered it up, it won't rebound. I designed my post cycle therapy (pct) protocol specifically to hit the testicular level and NOT stimulate the HP-part of the axis directly. The latter is the most sensitive part of the axis. You have to be extremely careful of dosaging stimulating these sensitive glands directly. With my protocol, even if it takes longer than that "shortcut one-shot" everybody is always looking for, the HP -part is stimulated by physiological levels of hormone production from the testii. Then, also remember why I prefer Ovidrel above HCG. Ovidrel, being only the alpha-subunit of the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) molecule, binds to three different receptors - FSH, LH and TSH. Why do I prefer to use the Clomids first? Studies have shown it to "prime" the testii for the first LH response. That initial testosterone response after the Clomid and first LH surge, will lead to high testosterone production, which will easily estrogenize. These high estrogen levels then again will suppress the HP-axis part - that's why tamoxifen is used to counter-act this estrogen production in the testii.

I prefer this protocol and not to use protocols of hormonal stimulation directly to the HP-axis. I leave this sophisticated stimulation to Endocrinologists that perform these interventions in a very controlled enviroment. And the average b/builder that injects himself at home, is definitely not the "controlled enviroment" I'm referring to here..

I have followed a group of athletes (elite level b/builders in RSA) over the last 2 years as part of my research for my Masters Degree. All of them follow my protocol on post cycle therapy (pct) and I have followed these guys up after their respective post cycle therapy (pct)'s were finished - none have not responded adequately to my post cycle therapy (pct) protocol. The average weightloss post -cycle was less than 10% once the post cycle therapy (pct) was finished. All of them rebounded their HPT-axii successfully with the minimum loss in physical conditioning.

Then, on the subject of on-cycle Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulation, I never was a believer in this, as it physiologically does not make sense to me. If you show me the research studies that prove otherwise, it might "re-educate" me to better knowledge.. And please don't show me anecdotal stuff or research done in animal models.

Just to re-iterate - I'm very weary of direct stimulation to the Hypothalamus-Pituary gland.

Regards
Doctari.

 

[Belgiansam]

found this.... what do you guys think in regard to the trip shot..?


Admin,

Here follows a short reply to the question..

Triptorelin, as far as my knowledge, is no longer available in South Africa. It has been replaced by the GnRH analogues Buserelin ( Suprefact by Sanofi), Goserelin (Zoladex by AstraZeneca) and Leuprorelin (Lucrin by Abbott Labs). Buserelin and Leuprorelin are indicated in the use of advanced prostatic cancer, where total suppression of testosterone is needed - hence the dosages range from 9,9 milligrams to 11,25milligrams - read medical "castration" levels. Zoladex is indicated for advanced breast cancer, also at high dosages.

I've known about the GnRH analogues for many years. So, why have I not used it as post cycle therapy (pct)? Simple answer - your HPT-axis is a very sensitive system. Once you have buggered it up, it won't rebound. I designed my post cycle therapy (pct) protocol specifically to hit the testicular level and NOT stimulate the HP-part of the axis directly. The latter is the most sensitive part of the axis. You have to be extremely careful of dosaging stimulating these sensitive glands directly. With my protocol, even if it takes longer than that "shortcut one-shot" everybody is always looking for, the HP -part is stimulated by physiological levels of hormone production from the testii. Then, also remember why I prefer Ovidrel above HCG. Ovidrel, being only the alpha-subunit of the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) molecule, binds to three different receptors - FSH, LH and TSH. Why do I prefer to use the Clomids first? Studies have shown it to "prime" the testii for the first LH response. That initial testosterone response after the Clomid and first LH surge, will lead to high testosterone production, which will easily estrogenize. These high estrogen levels then again will suppress the HP-axis part - that's why tamoxifen is used to counter-act this estrogen production in the testii.

I prefer this protocol and not to use protocols of hormonal stimulation directly to the HP-axis. I leave this sophisticated stimulation to Endocrinologists that perform these interventions in a very controlled enviroment. And the average b/builder that injects himself at home, is definitely not the "controlled enviroment" I'm referring to here..

I have followed a group of athletes (elite level b/builders in RSA) over the last 2 years as part of my research for my Masters Degree. All of them follow my protocol on post cycle therapy (pct) and I have followed these guys up after their respective post cycle therapy (pct)'s were finished - none have not responded adequately to my post cycle therapy (pct) protocol. The average weightloss post -cycle was less than 10% once the post cycle therapy (pct) was finished. All of them rebounded their HPT-axii successfully with the minimum loss in physical conditioning.

Then, on the subject of on-cycle Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulation, I never was a believer in this, as it physiologically does not make sense to me. If you show me the research studies that prove otherwise, it might "re-educate" me to better knowledge.. And please don't show me anecdotal stuff or research done in animal models.

Just to re-iterate - I'm very weary of direct stimulation to the Hypothalamus-Pituary gland.

Regards
Doctari.

Strange that you don't get an answer.

Were did you found this? I would like to read more about it.

 

[joei rock]

aight .. back for a small update .. got my bloodwork done today .. so im guessing by monday maybe tuesday ill have them and i'll post them up for you guys to tell me what you think... all in all , i have been feeling great, but only the #'s will tell the true story i guess...

 

[joei rock]

labcorb results

got my bloodwork in already .. thought it would take longer because of long weeekend .. but here we go .. i dont have a starting point to go from so i really dont know if maybe i never actually recovered fully from my first cycle. but this is it.

cbc w/ differential
WBC - 6.4
RBC - 6.15 (high)
Hemoglobin - 18.0 (high)
hematocrit - 53.3 (high)
MCV - 87
MCH - 29.3
MCHC - 33.8
Platelets - 180
Neutrophils - 56
Lymphs - 32
Monocytes - 8
Eos - 3
Basos - 1

Glucose - 86
BUN - 19
Creatinine, Serum - 1.15
eGFR - 87

Testosterone, Serum - 383
Luteinizing Hormone (LH), - 9.7 (high)
FSH, Serum - 5.5
Estrodial - 35.1

 

[DADAWG]

got my bloodwork in already .. thought it would take longer because of long weeekend .. but here we go .. i dont have a starting point to go from so i really dont know if maybe i never actually recovered fully from my first cycle. but this is it.

cbc w/ differential
WBC - 6.4
RBC - 6.15 (high)
Hemoglobin - 18.0 (high)
hematocrit - 53.3 (high)
MCV - 87
MCH - 29.3
MCHC - 33.8
Platelets - 180
Neutrophils - 56
Lymphs - 32
Monocytes - 8
Eos - 3
Basos - 1

Glucose - 86
BUN - 19
Creatinine, Serum - 1.15
eGFR - 87

Testosterone, Serum - 383
Luteinizing Hormone (LH), - 9.7 (high)
FSH, Serum - 5.5
Estrodial - 35.1

test levels arent very good , i would run clomid at 50 mg a day for a few weeks if it was me.

 

[joei rock]

i was thinking the same .. i dont have any clomid on hand .. i can get some though .. all i have on hand now is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) , aromasin , & nolva..

i figured i wanted the test to be higher ... and the estrodial seems high too??? from reading up on other peoples results and goals i know 35 is considered high isn't it?
should i take 12.5mg aromasin along with the SERM for 3 weeks ?

i have another issue... my wife is pissed ..lol..we are trying to have a kid .. we actually originally planned on doing this a year from now .. but things have changed a bit and she stoped taking the pill at the end of June... i have read that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would maybe help in that area.. but my LH and FSH levels seem good, and i was under the impression that is what is needed for good sperm production.
obviously i want to make sure i recover as best as possible .. but i am not allowed another cycle until she is pregnant ... and i wana get that taken care of ASAP ..

 

[DADAWG]

hcg is suppresive and shouldnt be taken during pct . you might try low dose aromasin , maybe 12.5 mg a day for a while .

 

[joei rock]

if my FSH and LH are g2g , why wouldn't the test be higher ? is my body turning too much into E?
from what i have read FSH is what the body uses to debvelop nurse cells which promote physical maturation of developing sperm cells. so i should be atleat g2g in that department... i want to get a sperm test done but cant right now .. so trying to guess by this .

 

[misterone]

if my FSH and LH are g2g , why wouldn't the test be higher ? is my body turning too much into E?
from what i have read FSH is what the body uses to debvelop nurse cells which promote physical maturation of developing sperm cells. so i should be atleat g2g in that department... i want to get a sperm test done but cant right now .. so trying to guess by this .

Yes that 34 e2 should be 10-20 to be optimal. You're testes are seeing plenty of LH (the input) but the output (total test) is appearing low because too much is aromatizing. I'm surprised the LH is that high with estrogen at that level. Usually the feedback high estrogen provides to the HPTA puts LH at a lower level.

I'd take some aromasin or exemestane or whatever suicidal Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you prefer, get that e2 down and the test should grow from there.

I forget if you ran a high hcg but I think that's a bad idea. I think low levels (500iu/wk) throughout the cycle are better to simulate normal LH. Then run the hcg for a few days after last injection just to bridge the gap to pct.

 

[misterone]

i wish i knew what my T levels were b4 cycle .. i screwed up and didnt get any bloodwork done .. just pulled a time on= time off guess type deal .. but this time i will know for sure.. im only 2 cycles in to what i think will be a long ride !!!

Even if it is a low T at this point, its something you might be able to work with. While testosterone levels are important, its free testosterone that matters. Much is bound to SHBG. But there are ways of upping free testosterone and moving forward with lower levels of total testosterone.

I never had a ton of success with the products that raise free test, but it might be a way that you can be better off in the mean time while everything gets figured out.

 

[pcazares]

I wonder if multiple shots of tript spread out would help?

As in 1st shot tript 100mcg 2 or 3 weeks later one more shot

 

[misterone]

What I was told was that it is a castration drug but for some reason a one time dose at 100mcg jumpstarts the HTPA. Admittedly I don't know much about the drug but I would be careful with repeated doses.

 

[joei rock]

Yes that 34 e2 should be 10-20 to be optimal. You're testes are seeing plenty of LH (the input) but the output (total test) is appearing low because too much is aromatizing. I'm surprised the LH is that high with estrogen at that level. Usually the feedback high estrogen provides to the HPTA puts LH at a lower level.

I'd take some aromasin or exemestane or whatever suicidal Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you prefer, get that e2 down and the test should grow from there.

I forget if you ran a high hcg but I think that's a bad idea. I think low levels (500iu/wk) throughout the cycle are better to simulate normal LH. Then run the hcg for a few days after last injection just to bridge the gap to pct.

since the day i got my results i started 12.5mg aromasin ED again. gona give stop this weekend wait a week or two and get bloods again . ...

i didnt run HCG at all though.. not during cycle , or after for a blast .. i have some now .. but have not used any..

I wonder if multiple shots of tript spread out would help?

As in 1st shot tript 100mcg 2 or 3 weeks later one more shot

i have read the same about taking too much tript being very bad .. im not gona try and find out...


i have to say i know that the #'s are what matter and all.. but i have really been feeling great all through PCT , and to the present .. i still have great workouts . libido was never an issue .. just all around great . 100x better than my last PCT went...

maybe my levels were low to begin with , which i will never know ... but a year ago today i was very very overweight (335lbs @35+BF%) . so i have been feeling nothing but better over the course of the entire year ... sitting now at 260lbs @ 20%BF and i can't complain.

im going to continue trying to get things worked out , and checking bloodwork and so on , gona give it a couple months and start up my Test/Deca/Dbol cycle ...

 

[UserAt204]

Ok first off 35 is not high. 25-35 is a very good range so aromisin is not needed. You could run nolva a little longer or just give your body a couple weeks to get back on track.

Lh and fsh look great and what generally happens is the testes may just need more time to accept the signals and correct itself. I would like to see TT higher but it's hard to say without previous bloods. What this shows me is that you are on the way to recovery.

Not everyone is going to fully recover two weeks after post cycle therapy (pct). We use this time as a general rule to have finished pct and clear everything from your system to see where you are at. I would be concerned if lh and fsh were suppressed. Long story short I think you are fine and just need a little more time which is not abnormal.

Now about trip. It's well know that larger doses will cause chemical castration. Endos frequently use GnRH's and the post above is am ok protocol but lots of people have a prefered method but it doesn't make them right. He speaks of using nolva to control estro, but nolva does absolutely nothing besides Bloch estro at the receptor in breast tissue but the estro is still circulating in your body. An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is the only thing that will actually reduce estro.

I think trip is not the miracle drug it claims to be but I think it's useful. Using hcg during cycle keeps a steady lh signal to the testes. If they aren't getting that and are shut down for months they are not always ready to accept the signal.

If you want more info on post cycle therapy (pct), and the use of serms, AI's and hcg google Dr Scally and read about his protocol. I can garantee he knows way more then the guy who was quoted above. Scally has worked with thousands of people and knows exactly how each drug works and I believe him to be one of the best in the game. Just because someone works with 1 so called top competitor and a handful of others makes him no expert. You would be amazed at the number of national level bb's or pro athletes that have no clue on how to properly use AAS and all the ancillaries.

 

[joei rock]

i was hoping you would chime in here sometime .. i wasnt sure bout the e2 levels .. i was under the impression 35 was higher than wanted.. i did run the nolva and masin again for 2 weeks ..have another appointment for bloodwork on sept 30th. so again , we will see

 

[Cobra Strike]

Ok first off 35 is not high. 25-35 is a very good range so aromisin is not needed. You could run nolva a little longer or just give your body a couple weeks to get back on track.

Lh and fsh look great and what generally happens is the testes may just need more time to accept the signals and correct itself. I would like to see TT higher but it's hard to say without previous bloods. What this shows me is that you are on the way to recovery.

Not everyone is going to fully recover two weeks after post cycle therapy (pct). We use this time as a general rule to have finished post cycle therapy (pct) and clear everything from your system to see where you are at. I would be concerned if lh and fsh were suppressed. Long story short I think you are fine and just need a little more time which is not abnormal.

Now about trip. It's well know that larger doses will cause chemical castration. Endos frequently use GnRH's and the post above is am ok protocol but lots of people have a prefered method but it doesn't make them right. He speaks of using nolva to control estro, but nolva does absolutely nothing besides Bloch estro at the receptor in breast tissue but the estro is still circulating in your body. An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is the only thing that will actually reduce estro.

I think trip is not the miracle drug it claims to be but I think it's useful. Using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during cycle keeps a steady lh signal to the testes. If they aren't getting that and are shut down for months they are not always ready to accept the signal.

If you want more info on post cycle therapy (pct), and the use of serms, AI's and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) google Dr Scally and read about his protocol. I can garantee he knows way more then the guy who was quoted above. Scally has worked with thousands of people and knows exactly how each drug works and I believe him to be one of the best in the game. Just because someone works with 1 so called top competitor and a handful of others makes him no expert. You would be amazed at the number of national level bb's or pro athletes that have no clue on how to properly use AAS and all the ancillaries.

Ya the trip is not proving to be what we thought it was

 

[Not7fifteen]

Well... On a positive note my natty test is 100ng/dl higher than pre cycle... FSH and LH are higher, e2 is under control... Was really hoping for a higher test serum level... Anyway, if anyone was curious as to the trip/nolva protocol I would have to say it works considering my precycle bloods. This is approx 3 weeks post 5 weeks of nolva following the trip shot which was 2 weeks after the last prop shot so I'm 10 weeks post last test prop inj.

 

[Cobra Strike]

^^^can someone ban this asshole?? since this thread is bumped and other experiences with the trip??

Why do you want to ban him? He conducted a study for this board to help all of us learn....I don't see anything wrong with that.