TRT Exit Restart - Progress

[Cosmoen]

I was on TRT for about 2 years. Test injections 100-150mg/week with HCG 750-1000iu/week. Age 26. Pre-TRT test levels was in the 400's ng/dl.

My exit consisted of HCG and serms for 3 months

Weeks 1-6: HCG 500iu E2D, Arimidex 0.1mg ED

After 3 weeks on HCG only, Labs came in at:
531 Total Testosterone (348-1197)
15.3 Estradiol (7.6-46.2)
0.1 LH (1.7-8.6)
<0.2 FSH (1.5-12.4)

Weeks 7-9: Clomid 50mg ED, Arimidex 0.1mg E2D
Weeks 10-12: Toremifene 30mg ED, Arimidex 0.1mg E2D

After week 12, I did a blood test. Results came in today.


Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 642.2; 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.9; 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
LH 18.2 HIGH; 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 5.3; 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 41.2; 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

I also take 5000-10000iu Vitamin D3 everyday.


Next steps: Should I stop the toremifene completely and retest in a month, or cut the dosage in half to 15mg ED? My total test seem kinda low given the high LH levels, and my free test is low. Is there a way to bring up free test?
Physically I feel good. Libido is coming back, strength is slowly coming back.

 

[Alpin]

You only did 2 weeks of clomid. Most people run ir for a month at least. Or you could have used it for 50 mg 3 times a week for 4-6 months....

 

[jozifp103]

it seems your testes are not responding well to the hcg or the lh. maybe that's as much test as you can produce?....if you can only produce so much, more lh or hcg stimulation is not going to make a difference. also i'd retest in a month or so as those test levels will drop some once you stop the serms.

 

[Cosmoen]

You only did 2 weeks of clomid. Most people run ir for a month at least. Or you could have used it for 50 mg 3 times a week for 4-6 months....

I ran it for 3 weeks, but the sides were too much so I switched to a different serm, toremifene.

it seems your testes are not responding well to the hcg or the lh. maybe that's as much test as you can produce?....if you can only produce so much, more lh or hcg stimulation is not going to make a difference. also i'd retest in a month or so as those test levels will drop some once you stop the serms.

Thats what I think too. Maybe the testes were dormant for so long while I was on TRT and it takes more LH signal to stimulate it now? Thats why I want to taper off the serm by going half dosage instead of dropping it completely. I wonder if I can do a longer run of the serm but at a lower dosage. I feel fine physically, but the free test is on the low range.

 

[jozifp103]

I ran it for 3 weeks, but the sides were too much so I switched to a different serm, toremifene.



Thats what I think too. Maybe the testes were dormant for so long while I was on TRT and it takes more LH signal to stimulate it now? Thats why I want to taper off the serm by going half dosage instead of dropping it completely. I wonder if I can do a longer run of the serm but at a lower dosage. I feel fine physically, but the free test is on the low range.

some people stay on a low dose serm indefinitely. I have no idea how healthy that is, it may or may not be bad for you, but i've heard of poeple on here doing it.

 

[3J]

restarting is a uphill battle.. good luck man!

 

[Alpin]

I ran it for 3 weeks, but the sides were too much so I switched to a different serm, toremifene.



Thats what I think too. Maybe the testes were dormant for so long while I was on TRT and it takes more LH signal to stimulate it now? Thats why I want to taper off the serm by going half dosage instead of dropping it completely. I wonder if I can do a longer run of the serm but at a lower dosage. I feel fine physically, but the free test is on the low range.

If you were on TRT for a while with no HCG while on...
You're leydigs atrophy. HCG stimulates them.
Then you switch over to clomid to finish up the restart.

50 mg a day of clomid is a hefty dose. You could of dobe it 50 mg 3 times a week or 12.5 mg ED for a longer period of time.

 

[Alpin]

You are right about your system being dormant and more LH to get stimulated. You need to hit at least 500 ng/dl while restarting in the HCG phase. Higher is always better if u can get there while on HCG.
What sides did you get from clomid?

 

[Cosmoen]

You are right about your system being dormant and more LH to get stimulated. You need to hit at least 500 ng/dl while restarting in the HCG phase. Higher is always better if u can get there while on HCG.
What sides did you get from clomid?

Clomid tanked my libido and made me feel depressed. This went away after I switched to toremifene.

My plan right now is to cut the toremifene dosage in half to 15mg ED and retest in 4 weeks.

 

[Alpin]

Clomid tanked my libido and made me feel depressed. This went away after I switched to toremifene.

My plan right now is to cut the toremifene dosage in half to 15mg ED and retest in 4 weeks.

Is this pharm grade Toremifene?

 

[Cosmoen]

Is this pharm grade Toremifene?

Research grade

 

[Havasu]

Everything I've read says you don't get accurate blood levels until 8 weeks after you have stopped EVERYTHING. So, a high LH and FSH with decent test levels in the mid 6's is not what you will be at in 4 weeks, or 8 weeks most likely. 8 weeks out you'll know what your body is capable of producing by itself now.

 

[jomamma007]

^
I'm a few months past my first restart and had the same issue.

It took my testes about 4 weeks before my LH went up after stopping injections even with HCG.
I finished with a 600~ test after running clomid and nolva and then number fell.

My advice would be to continue serms and try to get a higher T level in the end. Aim for 900+ IMO. I was able to reach 1000 on clomid.

Then re test 6-8 weeks after last SERM dose.

 

[Alpin]

Cosmo did you get your adex dose compounded?
You could easily take the 0.1 mg E2D and let Estradiol raise to 25-30 pg/ml.
But if you felt fine and your joints were ok you could continue. Well thought protocol and organized well.

 

[Cosmoen]

Cosmo did you get your adex dose compounded?
You could easily take the 0.1 mg E2D and let Estradiol raise to 25-30 pg/ml.
But if you felt fine and your joints were ok you could continue. Well thought protocol and organized well.

Adex is not compounded. My estradiol is actually slightly high at 41 using Adex 0.1mg E2D and 30mg torem ED.

I'm going to drop the torem to 15mg ED, keep the adex at 0.1mg E2D, and run this for 4 more weeks. Hopefully this will bring the estradiol down slightly, and I can keep the same test levels with lower LH signal.

Btw the latest blood test I posted with 642 total test was taken at 1pm in the afternoon. I normally take my bloodtest in the morning, not sure how much a difference that makes in the results.

 

[Alpin]

Natty Test is highest in morning. You need to get natty T blood tests done before 8:30 AM.

 

[Cosmoen]

Any good ways to lower SHBG and increase free testosterone? I know SERMs are known for increasing SHBG

 

[Alpin]

Any good ways to lower SHBG and increase free testosterone? I know SERMs are known for increasing SHBG

Vit d levels at high end of normal range.
Nettle, boron etc
Danzol is a pharmaceutical used for that as well.
How do you know your SHBG needs lowering?
I don't see it listed anywhere in your lab results.

 

[Alpin]

Adex is not compounded. My estradiol is actually slightly high at 41 using Adex 0.1mg E2D and 30mg torem ED.

I'm going to drop the torem to 15mg ED, keep the adex at 0.1mg E2D, and run this for 4 more weeks. Hopefully this will bring the estradiol down slightly, and I can keep the same test levels with lower LH signal.

Btw the latest blood test I posted with 642 total test was taken at 1pm in the afternoon. I normally take my bloodtest in the morning, not sure how much a difference that makes in the results.

If you are suppressing estrogen your LH is not going down.

 

[Cosmoen]

UPDATE- I dropped the toremifene dosage in half to 15mg ED, kept adex at 0.1mg EOD, and retested 4 weeks later. If you have been following my progress, this would represent the fourth month or weeks 13-16 of my TRT exit. Bloodtest taken at 11am, 2 hours after waking.

Weeks 13-16: toremifene 15mg ED, Adex 0.1mg EOD

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 693.7; 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 10.5; 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
LH 12.7. HIGH; 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 5.5; 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 28.9; 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

NEXT STEPS:
Keep toremifene at 15mg ED. Switch to aromasin, stop adex, to increase free testosterone. Retest in another 4 weeks. I thought about adding low dose proviron as well 25mg ED but haven't heard much about its usage outside of cycling.

Interesting, total test increased almost 10% from 640 to 690 even though LH dropped from 18 to 12. Does this mean the testes is responding better to a lower dose of LH, or that the testes have reach maximum output and higher LH levels won't do anything?

Lab results from prior 3 months of TRT exit. P

--------------------------------------
My exit consisted of HCG and serms for 3 months

Weeks 1-6: HCG 500iu E2D, Arimidex 0.1mg ED

After 3 weeks on HCG only, Labs came in at:
531 Total Testosterone (348-1197)
15.3 Estradiol (7.6-46.2)
0.1 LH (1.7-8.6)
<0.2 FSH (1.5-12.4)

Weeks 7-9: Clomid 50mg ED, Arimidex 0.1mg E2D
Weeks 10-12: Toremifene 30mg ED, Arimidex 0.1mg E2D

After week 12, I did a blood test. Results came in today.

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 642.2; 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.9; 9.3-26.5 pg/mL
LH 18.2 HIGH; 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 5.3; 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol 41.2; 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

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