DADAWG
Community Veteran
chuck is allready broke at the world series of poker , maybe he will stick to mma now.
UFC 86 JACKSON vs GRIFFIN
- Thread starter Eze
- Start date
chuck is allready broke at the world series of poker , maybe he will stick to mma now.
bleachcola
New member
They have to give Machida a shot. Dana wouldn't put his old poster boy up against his new one just yet. He has to find a way to keep both of them as marketable as possible. And Wandy is 1-3 in his last four fights. A win over Jardine isn't enough to give him a shot at the title when there are plenty of other guys who deserve a shot.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
I can't wait to see Machida pick Forrest apart.
DADAWG
Community Veteran
MOM if you hate ultimate fighting so much why do you watch it lol.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
What?
bleachcola
New member
What the commissions need are qualified MMA judges. Not some 80 year old relics from the boxing world.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
To me, a 10-8 round happens when one fighter completely dominates the other offensively. This means controlling everything and doing damage. I think a good case could be made for giving Forrest the 10-8, based on positional control and damage done to Rampage's knee. What keeps me from really believing he deserved the 10-8 was his lack of action on the ground. Taking mount and not throwing a single punch in inexcusable imo. Dan henderson tried to pull the same thing on Anderson in round 1(he was not in mount but he was literally only making effort to keep him down). Fightmetric scores a 10-8 when one fighter's score mathematically exceeds the others by a certain percentage.
Here's an interesting article by one of the fightmetric contributors that talks about the ins and outs of how they (correctly) scored the fight.
Griffin vs. Jackson: The Numbers That Matter - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
No shit. Two of the three judges gave Forrest the first round. Jabbing at someone for a round then getting flash ko'd doesn't win you the round.
bleachcola
New member
That was pretty terrible. They need to set up a system where knowledgeable MMA folks judge the fight not on a round by round basis but on the whole. Final physical damage to the competitors needs to be weighed in somehow.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
Fightmetric scoring system. I agree with 99% of this.
The FightMetric system is based on qualitative and quantitative research into the things that matter most in ending a fight. Its algorithm is based on historical fight data and guided by the following principles:
1. The goal of every fighter is to end his fight - Only things that win fights and confer advantages should score points. Those that result in more victories score higher.
2. Defensive maneuvers can't win fights - If all you’re doing is stopping your opponent’s attacks, you’re losing.
3. It doesn't matter what you strike with, only where you strike to - Measuring the effectiveness of punches versus kicks versus knees independent of target may be interesting, but gives no indication of fight effectiveness.
4. Not all strikes are created equal - Power matters a great deal. Even a total head strike count means nothing unless you know how many of those strikes were landed with power.
5. It's what happens after the takedown that matters - With the exception of slams, takedowns are only valuable insofar as they set up more valuable opportunities on the ground. Taking someone down into guard confers only a modest advantage to the fighter in top position.
6. Focus on the end result - Little things, like body jabs on the ground, will never end a fight, but they do set-up important things like submissions and guard passes. Remember that the submission attempt or successful guard pass will score the points, and that in their absence, those body jabs were worth little.
7. Damage is not a one-round effect - Cuts, swelling, and tight joint locks end fights both by doctor’s stoppage and by impairing a fighter’s ability to perform. Those effects last the duration of the fight and should be scored as such, not just in the round in which they occur.
8. Position matters, how you get there doesn't - It’s unimportant what technique a fighter uses to execute a takedown or a guard pass. All that matters is what position that technique leads to.
9. Grappling actions have equal opposite reactions - The same number of points granted to one fighter for a position change (e.g., gaining mount) must be awarded to the other fighter should he work his way out of it.
I think by now we can all agree that a 10 point must system is inappropriate for mma. Especially in a three round fight. And also given the fact that no one knows when to score a round 10-8, and a 10-10 round is unheard of. Both of those are under-utilized.
The FightMetric system is based on qualitative and quantitative research into the things that matter most in ending a fight. Its algorithm is based on historical fight data and guided by the following principles:
1. The goal of every fighter is to end his fight - Only things that win fights and confer advantages should score points. Those that result in more victories score higher.
2. Defensive maneuvers can't win fights - If all you’re doing is stopping your opponent’s attacks, you’re losing.
3. It doesn't matter what you strike with, only where you strike to - Measuring the effectiveness of punches versus kicks versus knees independent of target may be interesting, but gives no indication of fight effectiveness.
4. Not all strikes are created equal - Power matters a great deal. Even a total head strike count means nothing unless you know how many of those strikes were landed with power.
5. It's what happens after the takedown that matters - With the exception of slams, takedowns are only valuable insofar as they set up more valuable opportunities on the ground. Taking someone down into guard confers only a modest advantage to the fighter in top position.
6. Focus on the end result - Little things, like body jabs on the ground, will never end a fight, but they do set-up important things like submissions and guard passes. Remember that the submission attempt or successful guard pass will score the points, and that in their absence, those body jabs were worth little.
7. Damage is not a one-round effect - Cuts, swelling, and tight joint locks end fights both by doctor’s stoppage and by impairing a fighter’s ability to perform. Those effects last the duration of the fight and should be scored as such, not just in the round in which they occur.
8. Position matters, how you get there doesn't - It’s unimportant what technique a fighter uses to execute a takedown or a guard pass. All that matters is what position that technique leads to.
9. Grappling actions have equal opposite reactions - The same number of points granted to one fighter for a position change (e.g., gaining mount) must be awarded to the other fighter should he work his way out of it.
I think by now we can all agree that a 10 point must system is inappropriate for mma. Especially in a three round fight. And also given the fact that no one knows when to score a round 10-8, and a 10-10 round is unheard of. Both of those are under-utilized.
Fighters Weigh In on Rampage-Griffin
In the aftermath of one of the more memorable main events of a major UFC -- Forrest Griffin (Pictures)'s unanimous decision over Quinton Jackson (Pictures) -- the Mandalay Bay Events Center became a maelstrom of reaction Saturday night.
Some Rampage supporters were incensed at the decision in favor of Griffin, though Griffin's supporters were flabbergasted as to why these people were so irate.
Was it Griffin's in-and-out kickboxing or Jackson's sporadic power strikes that deserved the edge? Was it Griffin's guard play and attempted triangle choke or Jackson's attempted slam to break the submission?
Griffin's game warranted the win according to the judges, who gave him the nod on tallies of 48-46 (twice) and 49-46. But two judges, Adalaide Byrd and Roy Silbert, favored Griffin 10-9 even in the opening stanza, during which Rampage floored him with a stinging uppercut.
Debate has followed, but who truly won?
Sherdog.com spoke with various fighters and coaches to get their opinions on the UFC 86 main event, which has accidentally become a perfect catalyst for what could be the most viewed rematch in UFC history.
Chuck Liddell (Pictures): I thought Forrest won, but I was sitting next to Jay Glazer (Pictures) and he thought Rampage won. It was very close.
Mike Whitehead (Pictures): I was sitting front row. It was clearly three rounds to two in favor of Forrest.
Mac Danzig (Pictures): I might be a little biased because Forrest is a good friend and training partner, but in my opinion Forrest won the fight hands down, three rounds to two. He outworked him from beginning to end, and even though not everything he threw landed, at least he fought the whole time instead of just looking for one big shot. You know, Forrest trained hard for this fight and it showed. He was training in the gym everyday, not running around with a chain around his neck, telling people he's a thug.
Frank Shamrock (Pictures): Sorry, I don't watch the UFC.
Eddy Millis (Pictures): I was there, 10th row. Rampage won 48-46.
David Loiseau (Pictures): Rampage won. Forrest lost the first, third and fourth rounds.
Dewey Cooper (Pictures): The fight was close. The first and fourth rounds were the only rounds that really could be argued for either fighter. The first I gave to Rampage. The second was all Forrest, and I scored it 10-8. Forrest did a terrible job in the third and let Quinton back into the fight. I gave the third to Quinton. The fourth was so close I scored it 10-10. In the fifth Forrest out-hustled Rampage, and my final score was 48-47 for Forrest.
Gray Maynard (Pictures): I think Forrest won. Quinton won two rounds, Forrest won three. Forrest dictated the whole fight except for a couple quick explosions from Quinton. It was a great fight and close, but Forrest kept his game plan and was more active for three rounds.
Duke Roufus: I've been here at MFS training Ben Rothwell (Pictures). Pat Miletich (Pictures), [K-1] Pat Barry, Ben Rothwell (Pictures) and myself all watched the fight and we all thought Forrest won.
Phil Baroni (Pictures): I don't know how two judges gave Forrest that first round, man. That's some bulls---. I thought Rampage clearly won the fight. That first round could have been 10-8 for Rampage!
Cung Le (Pictures): Rampage won the first round with the knockdown, lost the second round bad. He won the third, but in the fourth he did not do enough to win and lost the fifth. I wanted Rampage to win, but you gotta take it from the champ. But the way I score, Rampage lost.
Cub Swanson (Pictures): I thought Rampage won. I had Rampage winning rounds one, three and four. Forrest won the second easily and the fifth. I'd love to see it happen again.
Gabe Ruediger (Pictures): I watched the fight and thought Forrest won. He was more active and did a great job of sticking to his game plan. I felt it wasn't decisive, but that only comes if you don't allow it to go to the judges. I thought Forrest won but wouldn't have been surprised if [the judges] had Rampage winning instead.
Cole Miller (Pictures): Forrest won three rounds to two.
Josh Thomson (Pictures): It was close, but I thought Rampage won three rounds to two.
Alan Belcher (Pictures): When the fight was over, my initial reaction was that Forrest won but they are going to give it to Rampage. My score was first round Rampage 10-9, second round Forrest 10-8, and rounds three [through] five all for Forrest 10-9.
Erik Paulson (Pictures): I thought Forrest won. I watched it with Josh Barnett (Pictures) and all my fighters, and we all sat and talked about it. We all thought Forrest won. We were all rooting for Rampage because Josh helps to train him, but it was a close fight. It was a great fight, actually. He landed some good shots, but I think the length of Forrest really threw him off. It was weird because it looked like Rampage was lacking some zest for that fight. But yeah, we all thought Forrest had won.
In the aftermath of one of the more memorable main events of a major UFC -- Forrest Griffin (Pictures)'s unanimous decision over Quinton Jackson (Pictures) -- the Mandalay Bay Events Center became a maelstrom of reaction Saturday night.
Some Rampage supporters were incensed at the decision in favor of Griffin, though Griffin's supporters were flabbergasted as to why these people were so irate.
Was it Griffin's in-and-out kickboxing or Jackson's sporadic power strikes that deserved the edge? Was it Griffin's guard play and attempted triangle choke or Jackson's attempted slam to break the submission?
Griffin's game warranted the win according to the judges, who gave him the nod on tallies of 48-46 (twice) and 49-46. But two judges, Adalaide Byrd and Roy Silbert, favored Griffin 10-9 even in the opening stanza, during which Rampage floored him with a stinging uppercut.
Debate has followed, but who truly won?
Sherdog.com spoke with various fighters and coaches to get their opinions on the UFC 86 main event, which has accidentally become a perfect catalyst for what could be the most viewed rematch in UFC history.
Chuck Liddell (Pictures): I thought Forrest won, but I was sitting next to Jay Glazer (Pictures) and he thought Rampage won. It was very close.
Mike Whitehead (Pictures): I was sitting front row. It was clearly three rounds to two in favor of Forrest.
Mac Danzig (Pictures): I might be a little biased because Forrest is a good friend and training partner, but in my opinion Forrest won the fight hands down, three rounds to two. He outworked him from beginning to end, and even though not everything he threw landed, at least he fought the whole time instead of just looking for one big shot. You know, Forrest trained hard for this fight and it showed. He was training in the gym everyday, not running around with a chain around his neck, telling people he's a thug.
Frank Shamrock (Pictures): Sorry, I don't watch the UFC.
Eddy Millis (Pictures): I was there, 10th row. Rampage won 48-46.
David Loiseau (Pictures): Rampage won. Forrest lost the first, third and fourth rounds.
Dewey Cooper (Pictures): The fight was close. The first and fourth rounds were the only rounds that really could be argued for either fighter. The first I gave to Rampage. The second was all Forrest, and I scored it 10-8. Forrest did a terrible job in the third and let Quinton back into the fight. I gave the third to Quinton. The fourth was so close I scored it 10-10. In the fifth Forrest out-hustled Rampage, and my final score was 48-47 for Forrest.
Gray Maynard (Pictures): I think Forrest won. Quinton won two rounds, Forrest won three. Forrest dictated the whole fight except for a couple quick explosions from Quinton. It was a great fight and close, but Forrest kept his game plan and was more active for three rounds.
Duke Roufus: I've been here at MFS training Ben Rothwell (Pictures). Pat Miletich (Pictures), [K-1] Pat Barry, Ben Rothwell (Pictures) and myself all watched the fight and we all thought Forrest won.
Phil Baroni (Pictures): I don't know how two judges gave Forrest that first round, man. That's some bulls---. I thought Rampage clearly won the fight. That first round could have been 10-8 for Rampage!
Cung Le (Pictures): Rampage won the first round with the knockdown, lost the second round bad. He won the third, but in the fourth he did not do enough to win and lost the fifth. I wanted Rampage to win, but you gotta take it from the champ. But the way I score, Rampage lost.
Cub Swanson (Pictures): I thought Rampage won. I had Rampage winning rounds one, three and four. Forrest won the second easily and the fifth. I'd love to see it happen again.
Gabe Ruediger (Pictures): I watched the fight and thought Forrest won. He was more active and did a great job of sticking to his game plan. I felt it wasn't decisive, but that only comes if you don't allow it to go to the judges. I thought Forrest won but wouldn't have been surprised if [the judges] had Rampage winning instead.
Cole Miller (Pictures): Forrest won three rounds to two.
Josh Thomson (Pictures): It was close, but I thought Rampage won three rounds to two.
Alan Belcher (Pictures): When the fight was over, my initial reaction was that Forrest won but they are going to give it to Rampage. My score was first round Rampage 10-9, second round Forrest 10-8, and rounds three [through] five all for Forrest 10-9.
Erik Paulson (Pictures): I thought Forrest won. I watched it with Josh Barnett (Pictures) and all my fighters, and we all sat and talked about it. We all thought Forrest won. We were all rooting for Rampage because Josh helps to train him, but it was a close fight. It was a great fight, actually. He landed some good shots, but I think the length of Forrest really threw him off. It was weird because it looked like Rampage was lacking some zest for that fight. But yeah, we all thought Forrest had won.
