yea PH's suck...i took andro when i was 16 like an idiot...or maybe i was 17...cant remember, and i took ergo a few weeks ago...wasnt impressed with it...wish i would have saved my money. dont believe the shit you read at bb.com...the guys who get the 15 pounds in 4 weeks are bull shiters, they might gain that much but its because their new to training and gettin beginer results...