What is the basis for AI in PCT?

Shred2Live

Shred2Live

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Hi friends,

I'm confused about the basis for using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in post cycle therapy (pct). I originally understood that you use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in PCT to prevent sides associated with E2 being disproportionately high compared to Test.

By the time you get to PCT, however, test levels are so low, the additional conversion of T to E you could avoid by using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would be negligible, wouldn't it? Your E is already high, it's not going to get much higher from aromatase converting the body's scarce test...so an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) wouldn't help avoid estrogen-related sides. (That's where the Nolva/Clomid come in, I guess.)

So is the real reason for using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in PCT to preserve the body's precious little testosterone? Because I can't see how in a low-testosterone environment, using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would do anything to prevent sides. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here. Please educate me.
 
Okay, I'm in day three of the HCG blast phase before post cycle therapy (pct). I just had bloods done at the beginning of the week:

Test 1338
E2 <12
FSH .8
LH .1

That low E2 explains why I found it impossible to orgasm with my gf last night, I guess. I'm on 6.25mg Aromasin/ed. Looking at that low E2 and considering that within two weeks my testosterone is going to bottom out, I can't understand the justification for Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Once testosterone begins to rebound, I could see why you would want to protect it from aromatizing, but no test=no e...right? So I'm thinking of discontinuing Aromatase inhibitor (AI) through the blast phase and week one of Clomid therapy, then starting again for weeks 2-4 of Clomid. Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks
 
AI's help in pct because it keeps your E low which signals your body to produce more T to be converted to E to balance out so it helps kick start your T back up.
 
But Colt I remember you writing once that you were on 6.25/Ed aromasin during PCT and you felt like shit/E2 was too low so you stopped it for a while. Am I mixing up my memories? My E2 is pretty low, so you know, poor neurological function...
 
Ya well if you tank your e your libido is gonna be all fucked up. He probably felt like shit cus the synthetic test was already out and his hpta was trying to recover.
 
Right! That's why I'm thinking that the best strategy would be to taper off Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the blast phase as test levels crash, and resume Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during week two or three of SERM therapy. I'd love to hear from Dawg, DET, or User what they think of this.
 
Yeah during cycle I was running adex and got gyno so I hopped on letro for like 3-4 weeks and tapered down and went on aromasin 12.5 Ed so my e was tanked for awhile. I was running deca and instead of staying off an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) I decided to stay on just because I didn't want any prolactin issues from the deca. You might wanna stop for the next 11 days and let your e get a little higher and then hop back on the 6.25 during pct.
 
My last injection was five days ago, so my test levels are about right, I guess. In fact, my test levels never got above 2200 throughout the cycle (500mg Test-e/week), so I suspect the gear was underdosed.

That being said, underdosed or not I added twenty pounds! I'm just trying to keep my diet up now and hit it hard in the gym. I cut sets on accessory exercises in half, but main lifts are the same. We'll see how that goes.

I've read the whole PCT sticky several times, as well as Swale's protocol. But I still haven't got a clear answer as to why you would need to stop aromatizing when your test levels are low. The amount of E2 produced would be insignificant, wouldn't it?

I can see how you would want to reintroduce the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) once test levels started to recover. That's why I propose phasing out the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the HCG blast, then tapering back in starting the second or third week of SERM treatment. The idea here is to avoid wiping out all E2 and being left with no libido/ED.
 
I'm still struggling with the proper use of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in post cycle therapy (pct). First, some background:

I just started week 1 of post cycle therapy (pct) after a 12 week 500mg/week Test-E cycle. Through the 10-day HCG blast (500 iu/day) I was taking Aromasin 3.75mg/ed.
My post cycle therapy (pct) will be:
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 0/0/20/20
The reason for no Nolva in the first two weeks is that I want to get a feel for the Clomid before I introduce the Nolva. (This is my first cycle)

Anyway, just got my bloods back (17 days after the last pin, day 2 of SERM treatment):
Test: 268 ng/dL
E2: <12
LH: .2
FSH: 1.4

This low E2 seems like a bad deal to me. In addition to low estrogen's effect on libido (which I definitely am experiencing), and it's affect on lipids, I also just read that too low of an estrogen level also can reduce the pituitary's sensitivity to LHRH.

So I'm dropping the aromasin. Given how low my E2 is, I can't see how using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would help me recover, and keeping E2 this low comes at a high price. Lots of bros say Aromasin supports the production of testosterone, but I suspect that is only true in cases where too much estrogen is inhibiting the production of LHRH. I'll get bloods done again in two weeks before I introduce Nolva. If my E2 is too high in two weeks, I will reintroduce Aromasin.

Feedback/Comments are welcome.
 
Typically you would continue Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in pct to continu to lower estro, signaling the body to produce test.

Serms will cause spikes in t levels, those spikes are responded to by the body creating aromatase, that eventually converts t to e.

If you already have low E then skip the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) but watch for signs of high e. Most people don't go into pct with low e it just depends on the person. And again the addition of serms can increase estro. If estro gets high, you create a negative feedback loop and t levels stay suppressed.

I'm willing to say the majority of people need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in post cycle therapy (pct). Some people are sensitive to them and it sounds like the case for you. Drop your Aromatase inhibitor (AI).

Keep in mind the addition of hcg can cause a spike in estro as well but I have done plenty of pcts w/o an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Depends on circumstances and typically most people need it.
 
Thanks User, Matt... It does seem like I've got some very sensitive aromatase. Give it a dirty look and it just crawls under a shed and dies.

What is the mechanism for Aromasin raising test levels? By driving E low therefore motivating the production of more test? Or some other mechanism?

Do you guys buy this business I read about e being too low reducing the pituitary's sensitivity to LHRH? (I know you can find articles to support any theory...)
 
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The thing with aromisin, is it's only supposed to eliminate around 60% of E in males so it's not supposed to crash estro but it obviously happens to some.

Aromisin will increase t levels, igf levels, easy on lipids, works well with serms, etc. But if it's crashing your estro either drop it or go to 6.25 eod.
 
Here is something interesting i just read about using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in PCT.

This is by Dr. John Crissler AKA Swale

"I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?)."
 
Yeah I saw that Swale article. This is from an article by Bill Roberts that Lawnsaver posted in the Articles sub-forum:

"Some aspects of the pituitary's behavior are peculiar. For example, too much LHRH results in the pituitary downregulating LHRH receptors, with the result that very high LHRH production, which one would think should result in high testosterone production, actually lowers testosterone production. Another oddity is that while high estrogen levels inhibit the pituitary, still some estrogen is required to maintain a high number of LHRH receptors. So both very low and high levels of estrogen can inhibit LH production. "

I guess the bottom line is that there's no correct answer for everybody. You do your bloods, pay attention to how you feel, and go from there. I've dropped the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for now. The low libido thing was just not working out for me. Or my girl...
 
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