Why doesn't testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) work in the long run?

[simon420]

Why doesn't TRT work in the long run?

I've seen others who are currently longer into their TRT have problems with low T. Injections just stop working, and you have to increase doses to get T levels back to normal ranges. I've looked at my bloodwork that I get done once a year and I notice the same trend: each year T levels drop a little bit. I still feel great now but I've noticed I feel more tired before the next injection than I did during my first year on TRT. Anyone here who's been on TRT for over a decade? How does your bloodwork look? Have you lost your libido and did you manage to fix it some way?

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Unfortunately what you are saying is completely false. Testosterone from injections or testosterone that your body produces is exactly the same. Your body cannot differentiate between the two, the major advantage is that you are in control of your levels with TRT and don't have to suffer the negative symptoms from declining T as we age.

 

[rustjunk]

To answer your question, It doesnt. The determining factor will be when you take the test. It other words, how long after the shot. Testosterone esters has a half life.

 

[simon420]

The bloodwork is done 2 weeks after the last injection (Sustanon 250), every year the total and free T levels drop. It's not imagination. Something is off. I read experiences from other people who have been on TRT for longer time than me and they have gone from more frequent injections to higher doses to different testosterone medication but the one thing that holds true is that they constantly have to use higher and higher doses. This happens for real, there is no debate about it. This is Finland, by the way, not USA. As far as I know most people on TRT here get testosterone and testosterone only. No Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), no Aromatase inhibitor (AI), no nothing fancy. If that's the problem, what is the process that takes place here?

 

[TheChosenOne]

You should be taking cypionate or enanthate ester of testosterone. Sustanon has too many esters and half lives in it. Injecting Sustanon (sust) once every 2 weeks is a big part of your problem. Also, as you get older, your body is more likely to convert Test to estrogen and DHT. Which would cause your testosterone levels to show up a little lower while running the same dose. If that's the case you should start an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and not increase test dose. Increasing the testosterone would only make it worse in that case. You need to be getting blood work done that also shows your estrogen levels.

 

[IMT staff]

Ive been on for 4 years

 

[300winmag]

I would guess your estrogen is taking over or something else is going on. Like said before your body doesnt care where the Test comes from. I cant find it but I have read a theory that one can get used to trt. I am not putting weight on that, just something I saw. But I suppose there is that one out of a hundred, where it could happen.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

8 year, works great never had to "up" my dose

 

[mjc1]

2 years self prescribed on 250mg test per week, feel very good on this dose, now an then i will double up to 500mg and i improve strength, size and libido but am happy on 250mg per week

 

[simon420]

8 year, works great never had to "up" my dose

What are you using exactly?

In Finland neither cyp or ena is available. The only other injectable is Nebido which isn't bad in itself but it takes a really long time to start with it.

At the moment I'm feeling great but I'm still in my mid 20s so I have a really long way to go and I'm considering stopping testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and seeing if I can find a reason for my low T. From what I've talked with people online it could be a thyroid issue but it's really hard to find out anything because of public healthcare.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

ive used many items, all work well. currently use test C 200 mg a week dosed 100mg every 3.5 days

gels works great but i was paranoid as my kids grew i would get it on them, pellets work but hurt and give scars. never had compounding pharmacies but that's a good option if you have access

 

[simon420]

ive used many items, all work well. currently use test C 200 mg a week dosed 100mg every 3.5 days

gels works great but i was paranoid as my kids grew i would get it on them, pellets work but hurt and give scars. never had compounding pharmacies but that's a good option if you have access

You're only using test?

:edit: 200mg is double the average dose also. :/

 

[SolomonGrundy]

You're only using test?

yes, a good testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) plan replaces the natural levels and additional agents should not be needed, its the basis of hormone homeostasis. it you add too much test the body converts it to Estrogen, then you need a pill for that. this is why its a long process getting dialed in. more is not always better

200 is high, it places me in the range of a 19 year old, test total 1400 free 160

thats why i have to split the dose to keep red blood cells down to normal range

 

[300winmag]

I was also going to ask is there any other medications you are taking that could be hurting your T levels. What about life style, if your drinking to much not sleeping and way over weight, you can take as much T as you want and it probably wont help.

 

[simon420]

I was also going to ass is there any other medications you are taking that could be hurting your T levels. What about life style, if your drinking to much not sleeping and way over weight, you can take as much T as you want and it probably wont help.

I workout, eat relatively healthy atleast, normal weight, non drinker non smoker, no other medications. Bloodwork shows that response to injection is always a little lower T levels than the year before.

 

[Pantalones]

Don't go down this path man. It's just not worth it. You'll develop all these senseless theories in your head and beat yourself up over it. Test is test is test, and I myself had a hard time believing this for awhile. The body knows no difference and your androgen receptors will not become insensitive or down regulate as a result of TRT. If anything, upregulation will occur. I will say that if you run supraphysiological levels of Test for too long, it will interfere with other aspects of the body as everything tries to compensate (thyroid/adrenals). Also, the may be a downregulation of dopamine and certain aspects of neurochemistry relating to testosterone, but for the most part things remain stable. I've heard ten year testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) veterans talk about how they're still doing fine, better than most guys their age actually. I will say for a fact, however, that TRANSDERMALS WILL INEVITABLY STOP ABSORBING AS WELL and this has become what most perceived as testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) becoming ineffective..its just not true. The skin thickens, stratum corneum undergoes changes maybe from the gel itself, whatever but it will stop absorbing. Happened to me.

Think of it this way though. You go in for blood work and they test your T levels. They don't ask you to specify whether or not your on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and if they did that' be sketchy as fuck because then you know you're being scammed. They test for testosterone..in the exact composition the machines are calibrated to test for. Synthetic or natural, if the machine doesn't know the difference, neither does your body.

 

[simon420]

androgen receptors will not become insensitive or down regulate as a result of TRT.

Do you know if there are long term studies of this and what happens to receptors when your T levels climb too high(as it does with sustanon)?

 

[Pantalones]

Do you know if there are long term studies of this and what happens to receptors when your T levels climb too high(as it does with sustanon)?

Research some of Bill Roberts work on androgen receptors. He goes into depth (including studies) on why evidence leans toward up regulation rather than down regulation. If androgen receptors down regulate on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), they would do the same for natural levels which isn't the case. Up regulation is far more consistent with real world results, wouldn't you say?

 

[juced_porkchop]

I've seen others who are currently longer into their testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) have problems with low T. Injections just stop working, and you have to increase doses to get T levels back to normal ranges. I've looked at my bloodwork that I get done once a year and I notice the same trend: each year T levels drop a little bit. I still feel great now but I've noticed I feel more tired before the next injection than I did during my first year on TRT. Anyone here who's been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for over a decade? How does your bloodwork look? Have you lost your libido and did you manage to fix it some way?

other then when starting Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and your shutting down whats left in production (t levles would go down a bit then stabilize but thats at the start of hrt)... there would be no need to change dose . 100mg ew now will be JUST THE SAME 5 years from now!

Not sure where you saw that but its bull shit...

 

[simon420]

other then when starting Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and your shutting down whats left in production (t levles would go down a bit then stabilize but thats at the start of hrt)... there would be no need to change dose . 100mg ew now will be JUST THE SAME 5 years from now!

Not sure where you saw that but its bull shit...

It's not BS. It's in the blood work. They never did stabilize in 4 years. Each year 2 weeks after injection T levels were lower than the previous year. I'm worried because I ask other people's experiences who have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) longer and they get very low T levels off of sustanon after 5+ years and have lost their libido etc. Also talked with former steroid users who now can't get a hard on without viagra and need 500mg of sustanon to get normal levels for a week. I've noticed a trend on US forums that people are much more positive over testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), not just the people on their first 3 years but others also. Either you're doing something better or you're being paid.

Has anyone heard that too high T levels (total test twice as high as regular max range) causes problems like this? I'm thinking about trying out cyp or ena if the problem persists or not.