Would you commit to TRT to take your levels from 500 to 900

[Cap'n]

500 TT doesn't tell us what "free T" is Available??
He may or may not feel like shit at this level...

TT is a small part of the equation and I'm not sure why everyone fixates on the "If I had X level I'd never be on TRT..."

Looking at the TT alone doesn't take into account other variables that are indicative of needing testosterone replacement. You may find the following interesting:

Mohit Khera, MD "I diagnose TD based on two criteria: low serum total or free T and signs or symptoms of TD. However, I must stress that in my practice, symptoms are the key driver for TTh rather than any specific value for blood test results...

I offer T therapy to symptomatic men with calculated free T less than 6.5 ng/dL (65 pg/mL or 232 pmol/L)."

Michael Zitzmann, MD, PhD "Free T levels below 250 pmol/L (86 pg/mL) are highly suggestive of TD."

Abraham Morgentaler, MD "I find free T more useful than total T as a diagnostic test; however, it is critical to note that reference values provided by laboratories are not clinically based and of little value. Free T concen- trations less than 100 pg/mL or RIA concentra- tions less than 1.5 ng/dL are consistent with TD. Although I use a total T value of less than 350 ng/dL (12 nmol/L) as indicative of TD, if the free T value is low, I consider the total T concentration irrelevant."

 

[Roush]

I went from 500 to 850 with Clomid and there was a huge difference.

there was a 'huge difference' in what exactly ?

If you simply mean the way you felt, well that is somewhat relative and subjective. People are given placebos and also 'feel a difference' even though there is no actual imperical difference at all.


when my levels went from 168 total T to >3000. there was a difference, yeah. a REAL physical difference. 30 pounds of muscle, 35% increase in strength, a major increase in displayed aggression, greater endurance, etc.
those are 'real' objective physical differences….. NOT, oh think I 'feel' better


I doubt 500 to 850 displayed any kind of real 'physical' measurable objective differences.

 

[Shovel]

My trt puts me at 500. To have double that I might as well be running a cycle.

 

[Cap'n]

there was a 'huge difference' in what exactly ?

If you simply mean the way you felt, well that is somewhat relative and subjective. People are given placebos and also 'feel a difference' even though there is no actual imperical difference at all.


when my levels went from 168 total T to >3000. there was a difference, yeah. a REAL physical difference. 30 pounds of muscle, 35% increase in strength, a major increase in displayed aggression, greater endurance, etc.
those are 'real' objective physical differences***8230;.. NOT, oh think I 'feel' better


I doubt 500 to 850 displayed any kind of real 'physical' measurable objective differences.

Doubt all you want. I'm speaking of higher strength, measured by lifting much heavier weights than usual, faster recovery time after working out, and endurance was greatly improved. My wife also noticed many positives regarding mood, patience, etc.

How much personal experience do you have going from 500 ng/dl to 850 in a short period of time? Or how many studies have you read regarding something similar? Clomid is listed as a prohibited substance by the NFL, the International Olympic Committee, and the World Anti-Doping Agency. Why do you think that is?

Clinical review: The rationale for banning human chorionic gonadotropin and estrogen blockers in sport. - PubMed - NCBI

Indirect androgen doping by oestrogen blockade in sports

 

[Roush]

Doubt all you want. I'm speaking of higher strength, measured by lifting much heavier weights than usual, faster recovery time after working out, and endurance was greatly improved. My wife also noticed many positives regarding mood, patience, etc.

How much personal experience do you have going from 500 ng/dl to 850 in a short period of time? Or how many studies have you read regarding something similar? Clomid is listed as a prohibited substance by the NFL, the International Olympic Committee, and the World Anti-Doping Agency. Why do you think that is?

Alcohol is also listed on the 'banned substance list' for PEDs in many organizations as well. Not sure what your point with that is then.
Maybe Rich Pianna should run a big bad ass Clomid only cycle the next time he wants to put on 30 pounds!

guys on this board complain about the ligitimacy of their underground gear when the Test they are taking only puts them at 2200 total ng/dl.

using estrogen blockers to raise points up a slight margin wouldn't wet the appetite of most guys, let alone most guys on these boards. AND doubtful a football player, whose been running juice for half his life, would give him some edge using Clomid because its on the banned substance list.

most guys associated with 'banned substances' or anti-doping comittees are pencil neck beurocrats that would ban oxygen if they could make a buck off it and dictate rules to people they wish they could be but can't

bumping up testosterone a couple hundred points and getting "a huge difference" is subjective, to the person and that individuals 'feelings', imo.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

How could strength be a measurement? I had a 495lbs deadlift with a 277 total T level. I got on TRT and I sit between 600-700 and I still have a 495lbs deadlift.

Do I feel a difference from 277 to 600-700, yes I do. Do I have side effects, no I don't (thankfully). But I would love to give up the daily hCG injections and daily application of Androgel for a natural 500 test level. If my free T levels were low, I would run every test known to man (thyroid, etc.) and try to fix it before I commit to TRT. The OP isn't even looking to fix a problem, he's just looking to get an 'edge'.

 

[Roush]

How could strength be a measurement? I had a 495lbs deadlift with a 277 total T level. I got on TRT and I sit between 600-700 and I still have a 495lbs deadlift.

Do I feel a difference from 277 to 600-700, yes I do. Do I have side effects, no I don't (thankfully). But I would love to give up the daily hCG injections and daily application of Androgel for a natural 500 test level. If my free T levels were low, I would run every test known to man (thyroid, etc.) and try to fix it before I commit to TRT. The OP isn't even looking to fix a problem, he's just looking to get an 'edge'.

basically an excuse to take "steroids" without having to actually admit you take steroids, cause you can just say , "hey I'm on TRT".

heck guys that are on self administered TRT (that don't actually have diagnosed hypogonadism) even claim to be natty. If it is EXOGENOUS test then it aint natty

 

[ChronosOceanus]

basically an excuse to take "steroids" without having to actually admit you take steroids, cause you can just say , "hey I'm on TRT".

heck guys that are on self administered TRT (that don't actually have diagnosed hypogonadism) even claim to be natty. If it is EXOGENOUS test then it aint natty

Not trying to hijack the thread, but my situation is related to what OP is asking about. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism a few months ago, but my last blood test in August did not yet show hypogonadal levels (425 ng/dl). I also had an afternoon test show about 200 ng/dl.

Just curious if you would consider going on TRT in this situation an excuse to take steroids or not, considering the fact that symptoms of hypogonadism are present (brain fog, irritability, low energy/motivation). Obviously there are more factors at work than JUST TT levels, but was curious about your opinion after reading some of your comments above.

Edit: Wanted to mention that primary hypogonadism was diagnosed based on zero sperm count over multiple semen analyses, very high LH & FSH, and low-normal TT levels.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but my situation is related to what OP is asking about. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism a few months ago, but my last blood test in August did not yet show hypogonadal levels (425 ng/dl). I also had an afternoon test show about 200 ng/dl.

Just curious if you would consider going on TRT in this situation an excuse to take steroids or not, considering the fact that symptoms of hypogonadism are present (brain fog, irritability, low energy/motivation). Obviously there are more factors at work than JUST TT levels, but was curious about your opinion after reading some of your comments above.

Edit: Wanted to mention that primary hypogonadism was diagnosed based on zero sperm count over multiple semen analyses, very high LH & FSH, and low-normal TT levels.

I'm not a doctor so this is just my opinion. You have a lowish number. You have the symptoms. You have the high LH/FSH. You also have an afternoon hypogonadal t level in the afternoon.

Also, you present with the conditions (brain fog, irritability, low energy, etc.).

The OP states: "If you were lets say 35 years old and you were doing just okay like a normal man with a T level of 500, BUT...
-you wanted to have a little higher libido
-you wanted to be a little more confident
-you wanted to get in shape a little bit for the wife
-you wanted to have a little better general quality of life...
-you wanted to be MORE productive at your job(more than you already are)
-wanted to raise yourself beyond other men to gain an edge at getting women and everything else(mentaly, energy, how you behave)..."

Those aren't conditions. He just wants an easy way out. He wants to be more confident? Get in better shape? More productive at your job? Where are those the conditions for TRT? Why not get more confident? Why not go to the gym? Why not eat better? Why not be more productive at work? Why not have a higher quality of life? He doesn't need to find that in a bottle or needle. He can do that himself.

 

[ChronosOceanus]

I'm not a doctor so this is just my opinion. You have a lowish number. You have the symptoms. You have the high LH/FSH. You also have an afternoon hypogonadal t level in the afternoon.

Also, you present with the conditions (brain fog, irritability, low energy, etc.).

The OP states: "If you were lets say 35 years old and you were doing just okay like a normal man with a T level of 500, BUT...
-you wanted to have a little higher libido
-you wanted to be a little more confident
-you wanted to get in shape a little bit for the wife
-you wanted to have a little better general quality of life...
-you wanted to be MORE productive at your job(more than you already are)
-wanted to raise yourself beyond other men to gain an edge at getting women and everything else(mentaly, energy, how you behave)..."

Those aren't conditions. He just wants an easy way out. He wants to be more confident? Get in better shape? More productive at your job? Where are those the conditions for TRT? Why not get more confident? Why not go to the gym? Why not eat better? Why not be more productive at work? Why not have a higher quality of life? He doesn't need to find that in a bottle or needle. He can do that himself.

Good point. There are definitely differences when you have options vs. not having those same options to try to correct a deficiency.

 

[Roush]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but my situation is related to what OP is asking about. I was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism a few months ago, but my last blood test in August did not yet show hypogonadal levels (425 ng/dl). I also had an afternoon test show about 200 ng/dl.

Just curious if you would consider going on TRT in this situation an excuse to take steroids or not, considering the fact that symptoms of hypogonadism are present (brain fog, irritability, low energy/motivation). Obviously there are more factors at work than JUST TT levels, but was curious about your opinion after reading some of your comments above.

Edit: Wanted to mention that primary hypogonadism was diagnosed based on zero sperm count over multiple semen analyses, very high LH & FSH, and low-normal TT levels.

pretty much exactly what Cobra said.
Your being treated by a doctor for symptoms, if going on TRT is what you and your doctor think is the best option to treat your symptoms, then it is what it is.
again, your treating medical conditions and symptoms, NOT trying to gain an edge, or build confidence, or increase libido, or get in better shape, or be more productive with work, by pinning stuff from a bottle.**


** of course there is nothing wrong with that. Inject anything you want to feel better, hit big fat rails of cocaine if it makes you feel more confident, fine, just don't use the excuse that your doing it because of a medical 'condition', man up and say "I do it cause I want to do it and because I like it"

 

[Xwant]

I'm on 200 mg test prop now. My test level was 400, now 1400 My libido is high. I love that feel. High libido makes me happy. Just huge boost on libido. I don't feel like god.

 

[halfwit]

I'm on 200 mg test prop now. My test level was 400, now 1400 My libido is high. I love that feel. High libido makes me happy. Just huge boost on libido. I don't feel like god.

I don't know what you were expecting. Especially on a dose lower than my TRT dose.

 

[Xwant]

I don't know what you were expecting. Especially on a dose lower than my TRT dose.

What is your T level?

 

[halfwit]

What is your T level?

Around a grand. Still irrelevant though; you're not trying to feel "normal", instead you're going for superman status - which isn't going to happen on TRT.