Year Long Cycle, HCG?

[Jjaden]

Hoping I can get some solid advice guys, thanks, a close friend of mine has been running a cycle of 500mg Test Enth, for nearly a year.

His training and diet are in order and he doesn't feel a need to add any other gear or increase his doseage. He has recently complained of being excesively tired, and drained and that he is often 'sore'.

He hasn't run any HCG and has used Letro at 5mg daily.

I have told him he should have used HCG throughout and told him his Letro use was excessive but he told me when he used any less than 5mg daily his gyn would flare up.

My questions are as follows, would there be any benefit to him introducing HCG at this point in the cycle if he intends to be "on" for another 6 months?

The next questions is in regards to the letro, is he causing himself any harm by using 5mg daily to the extent which he has used it?

 

[Massive123]

wow. You should get a few interesting responses with this...

 

[TheMilkMan]

I can't speak from a medical background, so what I'm saying is simply my feeling on the subject. Having been shut down for that long, he should be feeling like that IMO. Without introducing any exogenous LH or FSH during a cycle, I feel really burnt out, so I would imagine that compounded over an extended period of time would be even worse.

As far as the Letro, that is WAY too much. Generally speaking the high range for Letro use is 2.5mg/day. His estrogen is probably suppressed to a point in which he is hindering his gains by using that much. If he experiences gyno at 500mg/wk, he should either consider dropping the dose to something that doesn't give him gyno and add another compound, use a less harsh Aromatase inhibitor (AI) at a much lower dose, or drop the steroid thing completely.

Again, this is nothing that I have encountered from personal experience and I'm not a medical professional, but this is just what I would recommend from the knowledge that I do in fact have.

 

[Jjaden]

Thank you for your reply, I was concerned because I have noticed him kind of 'dragging his ass' and while he looks great he seems to always be tired.

Based on your advice would it be prudent to suggest he begin HCG asap at 250iu 2x weekly, and drop the letro to 2.5 mg daily?

 

[Ozzy27]

I wouldn't run hcg the entire year but rather run periods of hcg. Look to the right and find "Primordial Performance" and look on there and contact Eric Mortaz (I think thats his last name) and ask him. Running hcg at long term desensetizes the leydig cells and will be permanently on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for life possibly.

 

[outlawtas]

Some disagree with me, but I see no point in long-term continued use of HCG. I would introduce it in spurts for someone who is on an extended cycle and 6-8wks before coming off.

That letro use is way out of wack. Remember - the male body does need estrogen as well. We simply want to control excess estrogen. I don't see why another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) wouldn't do the trick. Letro is a strong product.

Also, though it's not totally unheard of, a 1.5 year cycle is long. Does he really need this amount? Or is being on a crutch for lack of dedication to diet/training?

 

[juced_porkchop]

5mg letro IS FUKING NUTS!!!
i wouldent go more then 0.6mged and what i do do it 0.6mg e3d and its more then enuff.

 

[bigkit34]

a year and a half long cycle sounds ridiculous to me!!!! i've gone 6 months before and that was pushing it imo. he should prolly take a break and do proper pct then hit it again in a few months

 

[Jjaden]

5mg letro IS FUKING NUTS!!!
i wouldent go more then 0.6mged and what i do do it 0.6mg e3d and its more then enuff.

Hmm I'm wondering if I'm mistaken on his Letro dose, he said he was taking one pill in the morning and one in the evening.

When I've taken it in the past mine was 2.5mg/pill so I assumed his was the same dose...

I will speak to him this evening to see if that is indeed the case.

 

[Jjaden]

Some disagree with me, but I see no point in long-term continued use of HCG. I would introduce it in spurts for someone who is on an extended cycle and 6-8wks before coming off.

That letro use is way out of wack. Remember - the male body does need estrogen as well. We simply want to control excess estrogen. I don't see why another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) wouldn't do the trick. Letro is a strong product.

Also, though it's not totally unheard of, a 1.5 year cycle is long. Does he really need this amount? Or is being on a crutch for lack of dedication to diet/training?

Knowing him quite well and his personal situation I am aware he intends to stay 'on' untill December.

What would you suggest he replaced the letro with? Perhaps 20mg Nolva daily?

I will advise him to get himself 10,000iu HCG and use 250 2xweekly untill he's used up the HCG.....

Not sure why he's run the cycle this long but my guess would be the confidence and general sense of well being associated with being on test, when we've discussed it in the past he always said he really loved the way he felt even more than the physical benefits...

I appreciate all your answers guys, he is a solid guy and just after noticing him kinda dragging his ass around and complaints of being sore all the time I thought I'd try to nose around and get some info for him...

 

[MethTest]

wow wonder if he will follow the time on = time off rule?

 

[fleverglades]

I can understand EXACTLY where he is coming from. I had low test and the doc put me on enan - changed my life - the general sense of well being way outweighs just the physical benefits. At age 44, it is huge and I gotta do it for the rest of my life.

At this point, I would say he is, like i am, psychologically addicted. I think it is more powerful than any physical addiction. I just "feel" better. And yep, I am starting to feel that the effects are not as strong and just posted a thread asking what to do to boost it.

I can say that i did quit it for awhile and substituted some "natural" pct stuff avalable on-line and it worked. Might try suggesting that he taper the test enan(like I did) while adding the "natural" pct stuff for awhile. My test did drop but not as far as it was to begin with. the natrual pct stuff seems to work ok. Truthfully, I got back on the enan after a few months off. The idea of feeling like I was being crushed every bench press and watching ,myself get flabby despite diet is not appealing. I accept that it is not ideal but I am not ready to quit sex etc.. and that's how I felt. I wonder if he is experiencing the same thing. Bottom line - think it might psychological and not physical.

 

[fleverglades]

sorry - forgot to add that I did start hcg about a week ago and it does help. Split 5000iu into 23 doses and do one/day. I will check back on this post in a few weeks and let you know. maybe my experience can help your buddy motivate to try soemthing different.

feel free to email me as well in a few weeks and ill tell you what happens

 

[Massive123]

Not trying to thread-jack you but how long is too long for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? Is it cool to run throughout a 20 week cycle? Don't wanna do any permanent LH sensitivity problems and end up on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) bc I was trying to do the right thing...

 

[outlawtas]

Massive, there's no benefit in running more than 6-8 weeks. This is the amount of time you need to get testicular size back to the fullest capacity it can be while still on. I would run it in 12 weeks cycle the entire time, however, when doing longer cycles there is just no benefit.

Jaden, for gyno he should look @ aromasin.

 

[Massive123]

I didn't know that outlawtas. But even so you're telling me there's no benefit in having your nuts even if you can revive them later? Seems like if you can have em throughout you'd feel better mentally and I'm no MD but it seems like there must be a medical benefit in having em? No?

 

[Massive123]

*Medical or homonal benefit

 

[nickd84]

Ya i thought running it throughout was the way also, I run 20 weekers and run HCG starting in week 3 throughout

 

[FLEX15]

intrested in this as well....going to run a year of gear and trying to figure out if i should do spurts of hcg to keep me feeling better

 

[Jjaden]

Update

Ok so I spoke to my buddy again today to get an update of how things are.

He said he has dropped the Letro to a single 2.5mg pill 3 x week and so far feels much better, less sore.

He also said he is stronger in the gym and feels fuller. When I saw him today he didn't look quite as lean but did look bigger, and by that I don't mean fatter, he is still sub 10% bodyfat.

He told me he has some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on the way and will have it in a week..

His intention is to run 250iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2x weekly for 8 weeks and then stop to prevent desentization.

He said he will run it again at the end of the cycle and run a massive post cycle therapy (pct) taking 4-6 months off before cycling again.

I appreciate all of the input so far and welcome any further input. I will keep everyone updated. Thank you.