slowjamcdub
slowjamcdub
.
Last edited:
10 week test cycle
- Thread starter slowjamcdub
- Start date
Turtleneck1971
Active member
Unless you wrote that out wrong you had better do some more reading.. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for pct?
slowjamcdub
slowjamcdub
HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin)
HCG is one of the most important substances used in post-cycle-therapy. It stimulates the body to make natural testosterone, which is suspended during cycles of anabolic steroid use.
HCG is one of the most important substances used in post-cycle-therapy. It stimulates the body to make natural testosterone, which is suspended during cycles of anabolic steroid use.
Teutonic
New member
..I m of the opinion you need to read more..
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during cycle to AVOID TESTIC. ATROPHY and the desensitising of same.
This is so that your post cycle therapy (pct) will be more efficient and increase your chance of a speedy and COMPLETE return to natural production..
slowjamcdub
slowjamcdub
HCG providing an immediate effect on the testes (shocking them out of inactivity) while the anti-estrogen helps later to block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume the normal release of gonadotropins from the pituitary. The typical procedure involves giving the Clomid/Nolvadex dose from the start with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but continuing it alone for a few weeks once Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has been discontinued. This practice should effectively raise testosterone levels, which will hopefully remain stable once Clomid/Nolvadex have been discontinued. I dont think you read my first post right.
Turtleneck1971
Active member
HCG os not for pct idiot... You need to read and comprehend what everythings for before using things. Everyone that's on here and knows anything is laughing at you...
superhuman_98
New member
Slowjam
Could you provide a link to this information that seems to have gotten past everyone here? Thanks in advance....
Could you provide a link to this information that seems to have gotten past everyone here? Thanks in advance....
slowjamcdub
slowjamcdub
steroidology.com/hcg-human-chorionic-gonadotropin/
or you can go to the top of this website and go to steroid profiles the find Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin)
Feb 21, 2009
HCG is one of the most important substances used in post-cycle-therapy. It stimulates the body to make natural testosterone, which is suspended during cycles of anabolic steroid use. As medicine, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is used to treat hypogodadism and as a fertility treatment in men. In a steroid cycle, it is important to not use too much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as it will cause the testes to shut down via negative feedback.
Chorionic gonadotropin is a hormone found in the female body during the early months of pregnancy (it is produced in the placenta). It is in fact the pregnancy indicator looked at by the over the counter pregnancy test kits, as due to its origin it is not found in the body at any other time. Blood levels of this hormone will become noticeable as early as seven days after ovulation. The level will rise evenly, reaching a peak at approximately two to three months into gestation. After this point, the hormone level will drop gradually until the point of birth. As a prescription drug, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) offers us some interesting benefits. In the United States, we have the two popular brands, Pregnyl, made by Organon, and Profasi, made by Serono. These are FDA approved for the treatment of undescended testicles in young boys, hypogonadism (underproduction of testosterone) and as a fertility drug used to aid in inducing ovulation in women. When prepared as a medical item, this hormone comes from a human origin. Although there is often a fear of biological origin products, there is little research to be found regarding pathogen or sterility problems with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). The problems seen with human origin growth hormone are certainly not to be repeated with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), as this compound is obtained in a much different way.
While Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) offers the female no performance enhancing ability, it does prove very useful to the male steroid user. The obvious use of course being to stimulate the production of endogenous testosterone. The activity of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in the male body is due to its ability to mimic LH (luteinizing hormone), a pituitary hormone that stimulates the Leydig***8217;s cells in the testes to manufacture testosterone. Restoring endogenous testosterone production is a special concern at the end of each steroid cycle, a time when a subnormal androgen level (due to steroid induced suppression) could be very costly. The main concern is the action of cortisol, which in many ways is balanced out by the effect of androgens. Cortisol sends the opposite message to the muscles than testosterone, or to breakdown protein in the cell. Left unchecked (by an extremely low testosterone level) in the body, cortisol can quickly strip much of your new muscle mass away.
The main focus with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is to restore the normal ability of the testes to respond to endogenous luteinizing hormone. After a long period of inactivity, this ability may have been seriously reduced. In such a state testosterone levels may not reach a normal point, even though the release of endogenous LH has been resumed. Many who have suffered severe testicular shrinkage may be able to relate, as it is often some time before normal testicle size and feelings of virility are restored if ancillary drugs had not been used. The excessive stimulation brought forth by administration of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) can likewise cause the testicles to rapidly return to their normal size and level of activity. We are not simply looking for it to fix the problem however, as the resulting high testosterone level can itself trigger negative feedback inhibition at the hypothalamus. Estrogen production is also heightened with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), due to its ability to increase aromatase activity in the Leydig***8217;s cells. This is due to the main action of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), namely the increase of cycIicAMP (a secondary messenger that regulates cellular activity). When stimulated by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), the ability of the testes to aromatize androgens could potentially be heightened several times greater than normal. This also may inhibit testosterone production, so we therefore use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) only as a quick shock to the testes.
The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig***8217;s cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis. Timing the initial dose is also very crucial. If your were coming off a cycle of Sustanon for example, testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3 to 4 weeks after your last injection. Taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on the day of your last shot would therefore be useless. Instead one would want to calculate the last week in which androgen levels are likely to be above normal, and begin ancillary drug therapy at this point. In this case Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be started around the third or fourth week. Likewise, after ending a cycle of Dianabol (an oral) your blood levels will be sub normal after the third day. Here you may want to begin Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy a few days before your last intake of tablets, giving it a few days to take effect. One would also want to give some thought to the level of suppression that the cycle might have brought about. After an 8 week cycle of Equipoise for example, 1500-2500 I.U. would likely be a sufficient initial dosage. The lower amount of hormonal suppression one associates with this drug would probably not require much more. On the other hand, 750-1000mg of Sustanon per week might incline the user to inject a much larger Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose, perhaps as much as 5000 I.U. for the opening application. It may thereafter also be a good idea to reduce the dosage on subsequent shots, so as to step down the intake of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the two or three weeks of intake.
As discussed above, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) acts only to mimic the action of LH. It is likewise not the perfect hormone to combat testosterone suppression, and for this reason it is used most often in conjunction with estrogen antagonists such as Clomid, Nolvadex or cyclofenil. These drugs have a different effect on the regulating system, namely inhibiting estrogen-induced suppression at the hypothalamus. This of course also helps to restore the release of testosterone, although through a much different mechanism than Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). A combination of both drugs appears to be very synergistic, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) providing an immediate effect on the testes (shocking them out of inactivity) while the anti-estrogen helps later to block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume the normal release of gonadotropins from the pituitary. The typical procedure involves giving the Clomid/Nolvadex dose from the start with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but continuing it alone for a few weeks once Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has been discontinued. This practice should effectively raise testosterone levels, which will hopefully remain stable once Clomid/Nolvadex have been discontinued. While unfortunately there is no way to retain all of the muscle gains produced by anabolic steroids, using ancillaries to restore a balanced hormonal state is the best way to minimize the loss felt with ending a cycle.
or you can go to the top of this website and go to steroid profiles the find Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin)
Feb 21, 2009
HCG is one of the most important substances used in post-cycle-therapy. It stimulates the body to make natural testosterone, which is suspended during cycles of anabolic steroid use. As medicine, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is used to treat hypogodadism and as a fertility treatment in men. In a steroid cycle, it is important to not use too much Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as it will cause the testes to shut down via negative feedback.
Chorionic gonadotropin is a hormone found in the female body during the early months of pregnancy (it is produced in the placenta). It is in fact the pregnancy indicator looked at by the over the counter pregnancy test kits, as due to its origin it is not found in the body at any other time. Blood levels of this hormone will become noticeable as early as seven days after ovulation. The level will rise evenly, reaching a peak at approximately two to three months into gestation. After this point, the hormone level will drop gradually until the point of birth. As a prescription drug, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) offers us some interesting benefits. In the United States, we have the two popular brands, Pregnyl, made by Organon, and Profasi, made by Serono. These are FDA approved for the treatment of undescended testicles in young boys, hypogonadism (underproduction of testosterone) and as a fertility drug used to aid in inducing ovulation in women. When prepared as a medical item, this hormone comes from a human origin. Although there is often a fear of biological origin products, there is little research to be found regarding pathogen or sterility problems with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). The problems seen with human origin growth hormone are certainly not to be repeated with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), as this compound is obtained in a much different way.
While Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) offers the female no performance enhancing ability, it does prove very useful to the male steroid user. The obvious use of course being to stimulate the production of endogenous testosterone. The activity of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in the male body is due to its ability to mimic LH (luteinizing hormone), a pituitary hormone that stimulates the Leydig***8217;s cells in the testes to manufacture testosterone. Restoring endogenous testosterone production is a special concern at the end of each steroid cycle, a time when a subnormal androgen level (due to steroid induced suppression) could be very costly. The main concern is the action of cortisol, which in many ways is balanced out by the effect of androgens. Cortisol sends the opposite message to the muscles than testosterone, or to breakdown protein in the cell. Left unchecked (by an extremely low testosterone level) in the body, cortisol can quickly strip much of your new muscle mass away.
The main focus with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is to restore the normal ability of the testes to respond to endogenous luteinizing hormone. After a long period of inactivity, this ability may have been seriously reduced. In such a state testosterone levels may not reach a normal point, even though the release of endogenous LH has been resumed. Many who have suffered severe testicular shrinkage may be able to relate, as it is often some time before normal testicle size and feelings of virility are restored if ancillary drugs had not been used. The excessive stimulation brought forth by administration of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) can likewise cause the testicles to rapidly return to their normal size and level of activity. We are not simply looking for it to fix the problem however, as the resulting high testosterone level can itself trigger negative feedback inhibition at the hypothalamus. Estrogen production is also heightened with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), due to its ability to increase aromatase activity in the Leydig***8217;s cells. This is due to the main action of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), namely the increase of cycIicAMP (a secondary messenger that regulates cellular activity). When stimulated by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), the ability of the testes to aromatize androgens could potentially be heightened several times greater than normal. This also may inhibit testosterone production, so we therefore use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) only as a quick shock to the testes.
The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig***8217;s cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis. Timing the initial dose is also very crucial. If your were coming off a cycle of Sustanon for example, testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3 to 4 weeks after your last injection. Taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on the day of your last shot would therefore be useless. Instead one would want to calculate the last week in which androgen levels are likely to be above normal, and begin ancillary drug therapy at this point. In this case Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) would be started around the third or fourth week. Likewise, after ending a cycle of Dianabol (an oral) your blood levels will be sub normal after the third day. Here you may want to begin Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy a few days before your last intake of tablets, giving it a few days to take effect. One would also want to give some thought to the level of suppression that the cycle might have brought about. After an 8 week cycle of Equipoise for example, 1500-2500 I.U. would likely be a sufficient initial dosage. The lower amount of hormonal suppression one associates with this drug would probably not require much more. On the other hand, 750-1000mg of Sustanon per week might incline the user to inject a much larger Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose, perhaps as much as 5000 I.U. for the opening application. It may thereafter also be a good idea to reduce the dosage on subsequent shots, so as to step down the intake of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the two or three weeks of intake.
As discussed above, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) acts only to mimic the action of LH. It is likewise not the perfect hormone to combat testosterone suppression, and for this reason it is used most often in conjunction with estrogen antagonists such as Clomid, Nolvadex or cyclofenil. These drugs have a different effect on the regulating system, namely inhibiting estrogen-induced suppression at the hypothalamus. This of course also helps to restore the release of testosterone, although through a much different mechanism than Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). A combination of both drugs appears to be very synergistic, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) providing an immediate effect on the testes (shocking them out of inactivity) while the anti-estrogen helps later to block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume the normal release of gonadotropins from the pituitary. The typical procedure involves giving the Clomid/Nolvadex dose from the start with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but continuing it alone for a few weeks once Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has been discontinued. This practice should effectively raise testosterone levels, which will hopefully remain stable once Clomid/Nolvadex have been discontinued. While unfortunately there is no way to retain all of the muscle gains produced by anabolic steroids, using ancillaries to restore a balanced hormonal state is the best way to minimize the loss felt with ending a cycle.
Last edited:
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
HCG is a suppressive compound, just like most steroids. IT WOULD BE STUPID TO RUN Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) DURING post cycle therapy (pct). IT SHOULD BE RAN PRE-PCT.
PERIOD!!!!!!
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
you need to read up on HPTA and the mechanics of it
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
The hypothalamus is located in the brain and secretes GnRH.[1] GnRH travels down the anterior portion of the pituitary via the hypophyseal portal system and binds to receptors on the secretory cells of the adenohypophysis.[2] In response to GnRH stimulation these cells produce LH and FSH, which travel into the blood stream.[3] These two hormones play an important role in the communicating to the gonads. In females FSH and LH act primarily to activate the ovaries to produce estrogen and inhibin and to regulate the menstrual cycle and ovarian cycle. Estrogen forms a negative feedback loop by inhibiting the production of GnRH in the hypothalamus. Inhibin acts to inhibit activin, which is a peripherally produced hormone that positively stimulates GnRH producing cells. Follistatin which is also produced in all body tissue, inhibits activin and gives the rest of the body more control over the axis. In males LH stimulates the interstitial cells located in the testes to produce testosterone, and FSH plays a role in spermatogenesis. Only small amounts of estrogen are secreted in males. Recent research has shown a neurosteroid axis exists, which help the cortex to regulate the hypothalamus***8217;s production of GnRH.[4]
slowjamcdub
slowjamcdub
i call pre pct and pct the same thing because it is post- Witch means after. Sorry for the confusion.
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HCG is a suppressive compound, just like most steroids. IT WOULD BE STUPID TO RUN Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) DURING post cycle therapy (pct). IT SHOULD BE RAN PRE-PCT.
PERIOD!!!!!!
this and the next comments about the HPTA.... that's what is crucial to understand and what makes it suitable only PRE-PCT and not DURING post cycle therapy (pct). it helps your body make its own test but it will rebound when you stop it unless you carry on AFTER it with something like clomid/nolva. it is part of the PCT strategy, but should not be run thru your PCT but rather before, bridging the cycle and post cycle therapy (pct). that's how i understand it anyway.
Mr. Humdiddly
Knowledge Receptacle
Hopefully this will help you understand why Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during PCT can be an issue.
P.S. You absolutely have right to defend your beliefs regarding Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) implementation. However, you would be well advised not to insult the vet's of the board. They can be valuable allies. Also might want to increase your cycle to 12-14 weeks. Test C is a long ester.
P.S. You absolutely have right to defend your beliefs regarding Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) implementation. However, you would be well advised not to insult the vet's of the board. They can be valuable allies. Also might want to increase your cycle to 12-14 weeks. Test C is a long ester.
Last edited:
Larrybird
New member
HAha, you're too funny OP.
The research behind Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is very vague. It is not very clear whether to run it during the cycle or as part of the PCT or to do it as both!
Here is an article that suggests the advantage of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for anabolic steroid users,
Abstract:
"ObjectiveTo document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid***8211;induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use.: DesignClinical case report.: SettingTertiary referral center for infertility.: Patient(s)A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate.: Intervention(s)Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months.: Main outcome measure(s)Semen analyses, pregnancy.: Result(s)Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later.: Conclusion(s)Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG. [Copyright &y& Elsevier]"
Still, that doesn't answer whether hCG should be ran during cycle or during post cycle therapy (pct)? So which is it?!
However, this article might give us a more, scientific answer as to when use hCG:
You'll have to bare with the author, he is dutch and had a hard time translating everything to English:
How and when to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
HCG (Human Chorionoc Gonadotrophine) is no steroid, but a peptide hormone. It is produced in the placenta (mother wafer) at pregnant women. It is won from the urine of pregnant women. Many miss-informed bodybuilders use it together with Clomid to start endogenous production again after a cycle, this however works counter-productive. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) works on the LH receptor just like LH itself, therefore like an agonist. As a consequence, the endogenous testosteronproduction as well as the oestrogen production increases, with as a result aromatising. These facts together provide a further inhibition of HPT-Axis by means of the feedback. One injects normally, as a result from this mis-information 1 ampoule every three days (2500 iu or 5000 iu) after the cycle, this provides thanks to aromatisation of the high endogenous testosteronproduction, for an abnormal high oestrogen level, that can be responsible for many cases of gynaecomastia. Completely wrong therefore!!!
As from week 5, you can inject every three/four days + 500 iu. If you have to prepare the whole amount of 2500 iu or 5000 iu, you can keep the rest in an empty vial of b.a. Norma Hellas in the fridge. For about two weeks you can use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), subcutaneously (under the skin) with an insulin needle, to reduce atrophy (shrink) of the testes (seed balls), if this side effect occurs. Because strongly shrunk testes are not able to produce sufficient endogenous testosterone after the cycle. It is however for those who prefer IM also complete well possible to inject Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) IM (intramuscularly, in the muscle).
Briefly and concisely, right?
Case study: hCG restores testosterone production after steroids use
That hCG restores the natural production of testosterone in chemical athletes is very very old news. But strange as it may seem, there are hardly any scientific studies in which doctors have given hCG to steroids users. One of the few studies we***8217;ve come across is the medical case study described by the British doctor Geoff Gill, published at the end of the nineties in the Postgraduate Medical Journal. Gill, who at the time worked at the Walton Hospital in Liverpool, wrote the article after he had treated a chemical athlete who had become impotent at the age of 17.
The young bodybuilder had gone to a doctor because he was worried about a varicose vein in his scrotum. What***8217;s more he***8217;d been impotent for 4 months, had no libido, bad quality sperm and sore nipples.
The cause quickly became clear to the doctors. The man was a competitive bodybuilder, and had been using steroids for at least six months before he became impotent. The man himself had no idea that his complaint had been caused by the steroids, "as he felt he had been taking 'safe anabolics'. It was difficult to obtain an accurate drug history, but the man had taken nandrolone, Sustanon, and possibly stanozolol. When he could, he took danazol to counteract nipple tenderness."
The bodybuilder***8217;s pituitary gland was no longer producing LH or FSH, the doctors discovered.
The bodybuilder wanted to continue using steroids. As the doctors wanted to limit the damage they prescribed the least harmful steroids they could think of: Sustanon 250. The man was given an injection once every two weeks. He reacted well to this: his impotence disappeared and his libido returned.
After fifteen months the man gave up bodybuilding and turned his attention to his studies. Of his own accord he stopped the testosterone injections. The inevitable happened: his complaints returned. His testosterone level plummeted from 14.0 to 8.5 nanomol/l.
"To stimulate testicular function he was given injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) over the next three months (10.000 units I.M. weekly for one month, 5.000 units weekly for one month, and 2500 units for one month)", wrote Gill. "Within a week of starting treatment, libido had greatly improved, and spontaneous nocturnal ejaculations occurred. Serum testosterone levels and potency returned to normal over the three months of treatment."
Gill was positive about the choice of treatment. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) works, he claims. But soon after the injections were stopped, the man***8217;s testosterone level sank even lower than before he started with the hCG injections. It***8217;s a question you***8217;ll never get an answer to, but we pose it nonetheless. Wouldn***8217;t the bodybuilder***8217;s own testosterone production have been restored more quickly if he had not had hCG?
Sources:
(1) Menon, D. (2003). Successful treatment of anabolic steroid***8211;induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin. Fertility & Sterility, 79141. doi:10.1016/S0015-0282(03)00365-0.
(2) Postgrad Med J 1998 Jan; 74(867): 45-6.
STILL! We're uncertain when to use hCG. My best guess? Use it during the cycle because it keeps your balls 'active'. If your balls become completely inactive prior to post cycle therapy (pct), it will be near impossible to restabalize homeostasis.
..... So, you read the information and make a conclusion for yourself.
The research behind Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is very vague. It is not very clear whether to run it during the cycle or as part of the PCT or to do it as both!
Here is an article that suggests the advantage of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for anabolic steroid users,
Abstract:
"ObjectiveTo document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid***8211;induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use.: DesignClinical case report.: SettingTertiary referral center for infertility.: Patient(s)A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate.: Intervention(s)Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months.: Main outcome measure(s)Semen analyses, pregnancy.: Result(s)Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later.: Conclusion(s)Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG. [Copyright &y& Elsevier]"
Still, that doesn't answer whether hCG should be ran during cycle or during post cycle therapy (pct)? So which is it?!
However, this article might give us a more, scientific answer as to when use hCG:
You'll have to bare with the author, he is dutch and had a hard time translating everything to English:
How and when to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
HCG (Human Chorionoc Gonadotrophine) is no steroid, but a peptide hormone. It is produced in the placenta (mother wafer) at pregnant women. It is won from the urine of pregnant women. Many miss-informed bodybuilders use it together with Clomid to start endogenous production again after a cycle, this however works counter-productive. The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) works on the LH receptor just like LH itself, therefore like an agonist. As a consequence, the endogenous testosteronproduction as well as the oestrogen production increases, with as a result aromatising. These facts together provide a further inhibition of HPT-Axis by means of the feedback. One injects normally, as a result from this mis-information 1 ampoule every three days (2500 iu or 5000 iu) after the cycle, this provides thanks to aromatisation of the high endogenous testosteronproduction, for an abnormal high oestrogen level, that can be responsible for many cases of gynaecomastia. Completely wrong therefore!!!
As from week 5, you can inject every three/four days + 500 iu. If you have to prepare the whole amount of 2500 iu or 5000 iu, you can keep the rest in an empty vial of b.a. Norma Hellas in the fridge. For about two weeks you can use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), subcutaneously (under the skin) with an insulin needle, to reduce atrophy (shrink) of the testes (seed balls), if this side effect occurs. Because strongly shrunk testes are not able to produce sufficient endogenous testosterone after the cycle. It is however for those who prefer IM also complete well possible to inject Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) IM (intramuscularly, in the muscle).
Briefly and concisely, right?
Case study: hCG restores testosterone production after steroids use
That hCG restores the natural production of testosterone in chemical athletes is very very old news. But strange as it may seem, there are hardly any scientific studies in which doctors have given hCG to steroids users. One of the few studies we***8217;ve come across is the medical case study described by the British doctor Geoff Gill, published at the end of the nineties in the Postgraduate Medical Journal. Gill, who at the time worked at the Walton Hospital in Liverpool, wrote the article after he had treated a chemical athlete who had become impotent at the age of 17.
The young bodybuilder had gone to a doctor because he was worried about a varicose vein in his scrotum. What***8217;s more he***8217;d been impotent for 4 months, had no libido, bad quality sperm and sore nipples.
The cause quickly became clear to the doctors. The man was a competitive bodybuilder, and had been using steroids for at least six months before he became impotent. The man himself had no idea that his complaint had been caused by the steroids, "as he felt he had been taking 'safe anabolics'. It was difficult to obtain an accurate drug history, but the man had taken nandrolone, Sustanon, and possibly stanozolol. When he could, he took danazol to counteract nipple tenderness."
The bodybuilder***8217;s pituitary gland was no longer producing LH or FSH, the doctors discovered.
The bodybuilder wanted to continue using steroids. As the doctors wanted to limit the damage they prescribed the least harmful steroids they could think of: Sustanon 250. The man was given an injection once every two weeks. He reacted well to this: his impotence disappeared and his libido returned.
After fifteen months the man gave up bodybuilding and turned his attention to his studies. Of his own accord he stopped the testosterone injections. The inevitable happened: his complaints returned. His testosterone level plummeted from 14.0 to 8.5 nanomol/l.
"To stimulate testicular function he was given injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) over the next three months (10.000 units I.M. weekly for one month, 5.000 units weekly for one month, and 2500 units for one month)", wrote Gill. "Within a week of starting treatment, libido had greatly improved, and spontaneous nocturnal ejaculations occurred. Serum testosterone levels and potency returned to normal over the three months of treatment."
Gill was positive about the choice of treatment. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) works, he claims. But soon after the injections were stopped, the man***8217;s testosterone level sank even lower than before he started with the hCG injections. It***8217;s a question you***8217;ll never get an answer to, but we pose it nonetheless. Wouldn***8217;t the bodybuilder***8217;s own testosterone production have been restored more quickly if he had not had hCG?
Sources:
(1) Menon, D. (2003). Successful treatment of anabolic steroid***8211;induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin. Fertility & Sterility, 79141. doi:10.1016/S0015-0282(03)00365-0.
(2) Postgrad Med J 1998 Jan; 74(867): 45-6.
STILL! We're uncertain when to use hCG. My best guess? Use it during the cycle because it keeps your balls 'active'. If your balls become completely inactive prior to post cycle therapy (pct), it will be near impossible to restabalize homeostasis.
..... So, you read the information and make a conclusion for yourself.
Larrybird
New member
Another source that describes hCG during cycle and during PCT: (isteroids.com)
When used on a cycle sparingly, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) helps to maintain testicular size and condition but it is speculated that the intermittent administration of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will keep the testicles receptive to LH, when we eventually go off a cycle. This may be due to HCG’s ability to maintain of a higher level of Inter-Testicular-Testosterone (ITT), when used during a cycle. This could aid and quicken your recovery of the hypothalamic-testicular-pituitary-axis. This is certainly possible. When used after a cycle, it will still help in restoring your testicles back to their original size, and provide stimulation for the Leydig cells. Both methods have merit, and there’s no reason why you can’t use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every third week at a one time dose (perhaps) 500iu or so, and then use it at that same dose for a daily schedule at the outset of your Post Cycle Therapy.
Interestingly, one study I looked at showed that by using Vitamin E along with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), a greater blood plasma testosterone elevation. This tells me that we should always be loading up on some Vitamin E the day we’re shooting our HCG- 1,000iu of Vitamin E should be plenty. Another welcome addition to use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is Nolvadex. Using Nolvadex in conjunction with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) seems to make the chance of any inhibition of the HPTA very unlikely.
As Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is used to stimulate testosterone production, theoretically, side effects could be the same as those associated with Anabolic Steroids, although gynocomastia (development of breast tissue in males) seems to be the most probable, though still uncommon.
When used on a cycle sparingly, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) helps to maintain testicular size and condition but it is speculated that the intermittent administration of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will keep the testicles receptive to LH, when we eventually go off a cycle. This may be due to HCG’s ability to maintain of a higher level of Inter-Testicular-Testosterone (ITT), when used during a cycle. This could aid and quicken your recovery of the hypothalamic-testicular-pituitary-axis. This is certainly possible. When used after a cycle, it will still help in restoring your testicles back to their original size, and provide stimulation for the Leydig cells. Both methods have merit, and there’s no reason why you can’t use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every third week at a one time dose (perhaps) 500iu or so, and then use it at that same dose for a daily schedule at the outset of your Post Cycle Therapy.
Interestingly, one study I looked at showed that by using Vitamin E along with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), a greater blood plasma testosterone elevation. This tells me that we should always be loading up on some Vitamin E the day we’re shooting our HCG- 1,000iu of Vitamin E should be plenty. Another welcome addition to use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is Nolvadex. Using Nolvadex in conjunction with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) seems to make the chance of any inhibition of the HPTA very unlikely.
As Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is used to stimulate testosterone production, theoretically, side effects could be the same as those associated with Anabolic Steroids, although gynocomastia (development of breast tissue in males) seems to be the most probable, though still uncommon.
yeah i see what you're saying. although because it is still something that shuts down the HPTA i'd probably classify it more as part of the cycle than part of the therapy. i mean coming off of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will put you in a similar position you're in when coming off of test, except you'll have bigger balls.
if it requires the same therapy after for the same reason, then you can call it post cycle something... but not quite post cycle therapy.
people calling it PRE-PCT makes sense to me.... it can still be post cycle, but it isn't post cycle therapy.... it comes BEFORE (PRE) the post cycle THERAPY.... hence the PRE-PCT concept. just because it is listed as pre doesn't mean that it can come after the cycle. know what i mean?
