2000 mg per week

[Destination230]

What would be the effect of a Deca/Test cycle where the test is kept at a reasonable weekly level, but the Deca is 2 or 3 times what you guys would normally do.

What I'm wondering is what the effect is of using way too much gear at once, OTHER than excess estrogen... Forget about aromatization to estrogen for now.

You can only shut down the negative feedback loop so hard, so I don't think that more roids are going to shut it down any harder than being all the way shut down.

What other effects are there? Or would all receptors simply be occupied so it would not have any effect, like the feedback loop (sorry I forget the initials for the feedback loop.. I think it starts with H : - ) )

I should say here that I am not considering this, I am just curious what the effects would be. Or maybe 2000 mg is not unheard of. In that case, what about 5000 or 10000.

 

[Zeek]

Destination if you think there aren't different degrees of shut down you need to stop reading copy and paste articles and listen to people with experience!

Massive dosages of certain compounds will shut you down "harder" and for longer than using in a more reasonable manner.

As for what would happen with a little test and a whole lot of deca. For me mr Zeek Jr would cease working

as for the dosages, there are guys on this board running 3-4 grams per week in gear, believe it!

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Well if you believe in receptor saturation, I do, that means once all receptors have attachmetns, the rest will circulate in your blood doing absolutely nothing until your liver decides, or can dispose of it.

Here is the problem with mega dosing ( 10x the amount you would normally take). There is less return per MG the higher you go. meaning the first 400mg gets you ten pounds, the next 200 gets you 5 the next, 200 gets you 2.5 and so forth.

The dosages I used are random, everyones saturation dose is prolly different per weight, muscle mass, age, genetics yadda yadda yadda.

so I personally think the way to get the most out of each mg of gear you use, just do saturation doses over and over.

Here is another way to maximize gains per MG. some guys believe that starving the glycogen receptors up regulates them, this is why dorian yates started his new cycle the day after a contest, cause he had dieted down so long, his receptors were up regulated so when he started eating carbs again he blew up, and gained muscle instead of fat.

I dont know how much scientific truth there is to that, but its seems logical when referencing homeostasis.

so basically cut carbs and fat big time for 8 weeks, drop fat then hit your cycle.

 

[hard2gain]

Damn DET great post bro!! For me it does seem a lot easier to bulk right after a cutting phase.

Do you think carb cycling relates to this?

 

[Destination230]

I'm not really convinced that there are varying degrees off negative feedback.

It's been my experience that anything over 200mg per week of pretty much any product slams the feedback loop closed and my balls shrivel until 6 weeks after I stop, no matter how long I've been on (the longest has been 3 months - probably different for super-long cycles). And then they ache a little as they start to grow back. Unless I HGC of course.

Anyway.... if the negative feedback is either on or off, as I believe, then I would be more inclined to make the maximum use of the time that my balls are shrunken (by taking higher doses) rather than worrying about making the most of every mg. Gear is pretty cheap relative to everything else I spend my money on - I don't care if a little is wasted.

 

[Repo]

I would always add other components to the gear-soup and benefit from the synergy of the combinations...

... "rather than going that high with any one or two items."

You also need to understand each product to understand what items compliment each other.

What DET says is spot on - and here is something I've learned from him and User - which led me to further study this area.

This applies to trenbolone and testosterone.

Like most people - I was running test higher than tren until I learned they are both highly androgen and compete for the same androgen receptor.

I was running test-e 750 and tren-e 400 -- then switched to test 400 and tren 800 ... "without noticing any new sides."

This led me to better dry lean mass gains from tren over test.

If I didn't lower the testosterone - I would have over saturated the receptors - and created bad sides.

I should also mention - this doesn't mean - go nuts by shoving and pinning a million different things in your body - although I think I'm sometimes doing just that.

 

[heavyiron]

Heavy deca cycles mean no sex for me.

AR saturation is highly unlikely at 2 grams per week.

 

[WindowCleaner]

Heavy deca cycles mean no sex for me.

AR saturation is highly unlikely at 2 grams per week.

I'm thinking it may be the high estrogen combined with the prolactin from deca that causes limp dick. I ran HCG with my tren and my libido was enhanced. I'm about to run a high deca cycle with HCG and ill report back what happens to my libido. Most guys run what atleast 300 mg of test with their deca. Even 300 mg of test probably causes high E2, although not high enough for any noticeable symptoms. But combine that with the prolactin from Deca....

 

[heavyiron]

I'm thinking it may be the high estrogen combined with the prolactin from deca that causes limp dick. I ran HCG with my tren and my libido was enhanced. I'm about to run a high deca cycle with HCG and ill report back what happens to my libido. Most guys run what atleast 300 mg of test with their deca. Even 300 mg of test probably causes high E2, although not high enough for any noticeable symptoms. But combine that with the prolactin from Deca....

Keep in mind Nandrolone and HCG (indirectly) aromatize a bit as well. I would use an aromatase inhibitor for sure.

 

[Destination230]

I'm about to run a high deca cycle with HCG and ill report back what happens to my libido.

Let me make a prediction based on my own experience.

5 days after your first shot of HCG, you'll start to notice a difference. At day 7 or 8, you'll be quoting George Costanza after he ate mango: "I'm back baby, I'm back!"

BTW, my libido was never a problem, it was my ability to get an erection that suffered. I would still look at a hot girl and want to snap my dick off in her ass, but my ability to actually do it just wasn't there. : - )

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Heavy deca cycles mean no sex for me.

AR saturation is highly unlikely at 2 grams per week.

See this is where i get lost, i dont know, or know how to find out what a saturation dose is.

I should have used the words "the dose that doesnt bring on sides", so basically for the 90 percent on this board who will never successfully compete, going high enough to bring on extra sides for little return seems sensless to me.

if we look at testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys we know when there T drops so low, they do not have the chemicals in their body to support x amount of muscle tissue anymore.

my point is if your a pro BB who is maxed out on your potential, the only way to go up is to use more gear, in that case guys gotta do what they gotta do.

one of our guys here plays football, he has to take 375mg of test a week just to maintain his size.

 

[DADAWG]

What would be the effect of a Deca/Test cycle where the test is kept at a reasonable weekly level, but the Deca is 2 or 3 times what you guys would normally do.

What I'm wondering is what the effect is of using way too much gear at once, OTHER than excess estrogen... Forget about aromatization to estrogen for now.

You can only shut down the negative feedback loop so hard, so I don't think that more roids are going to shut it down any harder than being all the way shut down.

What other effects are there? Or would all receptors simply be occupied so it would not have any effect, like the feedback loop (sorry I forget the initials for the feedback loop.. I think it starts with H : - ) )

I should say here that I am not considering this, I am just curious what the effects would be. Or maybe 2000 mg is not unheard of. In that case, what about 5000 or 10000.

less than 1% of the people on these boards need that much gear to grow . if you were in that 1% you would allready know this stuff and woudnt have to post for help.

you didnt have a epiphany and suddenly reinvent steroid cycles , there is a reason the vets dont reccomend huge cycles . its because you dont need them , the side effect to gain ratio goes up rapidly on heavy cycles.

 

[cashout]

This is very simple and always has been. People always try to put the cart in front of the horse.

GOALS dictated Drugs, Duration, and Dosage.

The 3 D's are framed by one's specific goals. End of story.

 

[heavyiron]

See this is where i get lost, i dont know, or know how to find out what a saturation dose is.

I should have used the words "the dose that doesnt bring on sides", so basically for the 90 percent on this board who will never successfully compete, going high enough to bring on extra sides for little return seems sensless to me.

if we look at testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys we know when there T drops so low, they do not have the chemicals in their body to support x amount of muscle tissue anymore.

my point is if your a pro BB who is maxed out on your potential, the only way to go up is to use more gear, in that case guys gotta do what they gotta do.

one of our guys here plays football, he has to take 375mg of test a week just to maintain his size.

Yeah, the science is pretty limited but we do know your body produces more AR's when you use testosterone.

I agree that there is a point of diminishing returns for sides that present. For me personally 1,500mg weekly is the point of diminishing returns for side effects.

I find nutritional needs far outweigh increasing dose at that point. In fact, I bet guys could hold mass easier at low doses if diet was dialed in.

 

[DADAWG]

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I find nutritional needs far outweigh increasing dose at that point. In fact, I bet guys could hold mass easier at low doses if diet was dialed in.

thats the problem .
newbies dont want to do heavy squats and deadlifts , they want to do curls and bench press.
newbies dont want to spend a lot of time on eating right , they want to go to mcdonalds and go out parting and drinking with their budddies.
so to make up for all that they figure what the hell and load up on steroids.

 

[heavyiron]

thats the problem .
newbies dont want to do heavy squats and deadlifts , they want to do curls and bench press.
newbies dont want to spend a lot of time on eating right , they want to go to mcdonalds and go out parting and drinking with their budddies.
so to make up for all that they figure what the hell and load up on steroids.

I know. I did that for my first 3 years of cycling. LOL!

We used to take large doses, train like madmen and then go to the bar...

Made huge gains but it could have been better I'm sure, had I ate clean.

 

[DADAWG]

I know. I did that for my first 3 years of cycling. LOL!

We used to take large doses, train like madmen and then go to the bar...

Made huge gains but it could have been better I'm sure, had I ate clean.

we know more that we did back in those days , the younger generation should learn from our mistakes.

 

[Destination230]

if you were in that 1% you would allready know this stuff and woudnt have to post for help. [...] you didnt have a epiphany and suddenly reinvent steroid cycles

I am not considering this, I am just curious what the effects would be.

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