AI monotherapy aromasin anastrozole

[Lenex]

There was a debate about taking 1mg of anastrozole daily as an ai monotherapy. And it was backed up by a study. There is also a study where people were taking 25mg and 50mg daily aromasin and their testosterone increased by 50%(from 400 to 600), and they didn't crash their estrogen(as good as i can remember it was still in the 5-10 range-i dont know if thats crashed or not). The testosterone elevations in both groups were wery similar, slighty better in the 25mg group(this is strange to me).

I think those doses are total overkill. You literally kill your estrogen if u ask me. I tried this ai monotherapy. At least started. First day i took aproximately 5mg of pharma grade aromasin and the second day i took aproximately 10mg. One or two days later i was pissing all water out, felt dry, joints started to hurt, muscles hurt after a workout for 3 days(very dry pain-as if it was an injury).

It is definitely not healthy and you will not feel good.

 

[Megatron28]

Are you taking exogenous testosterone or anything else?

 

[Lenex]

No, at the moment im not on anything. I will continue 5mg aromasin e2d to e3d and see what that does.

edit: well but since aromasin is a suicidal aromatase inhibitor and binds tot he aromatase permanently, i guess my estrogen would constantly descend on that type of strict dosing, so i will probably just go by the feel.

 

[Megatron28]

Then your estrogen will not crash by taking an AI if your HPTA is functioning properly. Your body will compensate by producing more testosterone.

When is the last time you used something other than an AI?

Aromasin has a short half life. It should be used at least once a day.

 

[Lenex]

Mega have you tried it? I dont want to discredit you, but it doesnt work that way that body will immediately compensate. Testosterone doesnt rise within hours even if your estrogen is 0. Its a slower process and your body needs a good 2 or 3 days to compensate anything. But being on 25mg/day, that would be 3 days of hell. And i have read some experiences with ai mono where people just ended up with low T & low E.

If it has a short half life it doesnt mean it should be used daily. lets say your estrogen on day1 is 50. you take aromasin, and it drops to 30 on day2. take aromasin and it drops to 10 on day3. and so on. your just gonna continue dropping it. When you crash E2 with aromasin it takes much longer to recover than adex, and thats also why aromasin should be taken less frequently!

 

[Megatron28]

Mega have you tried it? I dont want to discredit you, but it doesnt work that way that body will immediately compensate. Testosterone doesnt rise within hours even if your estrogen is 0. Its a slower process and your body needs a good 2 or 3 days to compensate anything. But being on 25mg/day, that would be 3 days of hell. And i have read some experiences with ai mono where people just ended up with low T & low E.

If it has a short half life it doesnt mean it should be used daily. lets say your estrogen on day1 is 50. you take aromasin, and it drops to 30 on day2. take aromasin and it drops to 10 on day3. and so on. your just gonna continue dropping it. When you crash E2 with aromasin it takes much longer to recover than adex, and thats also why aromasin should be taken less frequently!

I have not tried it, but I have a very good friend who did it. He had no such issues.

What you are missing from the equation is that when the AI pushes your estrogen lower, that your pituitary will send more LH to your testicles so that they make more testosterone which in turn will aromatize. This will be essentially immediate -- not delayed by days. It does not take the testicles days to crank out some Test.

Now, if your testicles are not working properly (primary hypogonadism) toss this all out the window. But you surely would not have attempted this if your testicles aren't working properly. If you cycled or did TRT previously, I hope for your sake that you "primed" your testicles for AI Monotherapy with hCG. Attempting AI Monotherapy with atrophied testicles would not be wise.

 

[Alpin]

Depends on your pituitary too.
I was on .25 mg eod of adex monotherapy for many months and I crashed my E2...and my LH/FSH never rose and it was same as baseline.
Headaches, sore joints, dry skin, tiredness ....
Be sure to start from lowest dose possible then dial it in...
Looking back I would start at 0.125 mg eod-e3d... Then check that estro is not too low.

 

[Megatron28]

Depends on your pituitary too.
I was on .25 mg eod of adex monotherapy for many months and I crashed my E2...and my LH/FSH never rose and it was same as baseline.
Headaches, sore joints, dry skin, tiredness ....
Be sure to start from lowest dose possible then dial it in...
Looking back I would start at 0.125 mg eod-e3d... Then check that estro is not too low.

You had been suppressed for years though when you tried it, if I remember correctly.

 

[Alpin]

You had been suppressed for years though when you tried it, if I remember correctly.

Ya after 2.5 yrs ...
But I stayed on it 16 months and LH/FSH was same as not taking anything.
Maybe he'll have better luck.

 

[Lenex]

Mega did your friend use adex or aromasin?

 

[Megatron28]

Mega did your friend use adex or aromasin?

Arimidex. 1mg daily.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Then your estrogen will not crash by taking an AI if your HPTA is functioning properly. Your body will compensate by producing more testosterone.

When is the last time you used something other than an AI?

Aromasin has a short half life. It should be used at least once a day.

test mainly only rises due to less conversion to estro = more test floating around. (ofcourse production of various hormones will be altered with lower estro levels but are minimal and no wortht his venture) so i have to disagree here, it can and is likely to crash estro off cycle. using say clomid for a few months trying to jump start system a bit and then getting blood work couple months after the clomid run is an option before accepting and going on hrt though IMO.

not one for AI off cycle hen estro is normal, if there is an issue a run of ai off cycle is not likely to do anything long term in terms of keeping healthy estro AND test levels IMO

 

[Megatron28]

test mainly only rises due to less conversion to estro = more test floating around. (ofcourse production of various hormones will be altered with lower estro levels but are minimal and no wortht his venture) so i have to disagree here, it can and is likely to crash estro off cycle. using say clomid for a few months trying to jump start system a bit and then getting blood work couple months after the clomid run is an option before accepting and going on hrt though IMO.

not one for AI off cycle hen estro is normal, if there is an issue a run of ai off cycle is not likely to do anything long term in terms of keeping healthy estro AND test levels IMO

We are talking about TRT, not someone in between cycles. There are medical studies supporting that AI Monotherapy is an effective method for increasing testosterone levels such as the following in which men ran 1mg of Arimidex daily (Group 1):

Mean +/- SD bioavailable testosterone increased from 99 +/- 31 to 207 +/- 65 ng/dl in group 1 and from 115 +/- 37 to 178 +/- 55 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.054 group 1 vs. group 2). Total testosterone levels increased from 343 +/- 61 to 572 +/- 139 ng/dl in group 1 and from 397 +/- 106 to 520 +/- 91 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.012 group 1 vs. group 2). Serum estradiol levels decreased from 26 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 6 pg/ml in group 1 and from 27 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 5 pg/ml in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Serum LH levels increased from 5.1 +/- 4.8 to 7.9 +/- 6.5 U/liter and from 4.1 +/- 1.6 to 7.2 +/- 2.8 U/liter in groups 1 and 2, respectively (P = 0.007 group 1 vs. placebo, P = 0.003 group 2 vs. placebo, and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2).


Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Lenex]

I can say that today i was definitely getting harder erections, i took 5mg aromasin yesterday. And i have to say i feel pretty good.
One thing i am concerned though is heart health, because we need some estrogen for that, right?
What was your friends baseline testosterone, and then on ai therapy?

 

[juced_porkchop]

We are talking about TRT, not someone in between cycles. There are medical studies supporting that AI Monotherapy is an effective method for increasing testosterone levels such as the following in which men ran 1mg of Arimidex daily (Group 1):

Mean +/- SD bioavailable testosterone increased from 99 +/- 31 to 207 +/- 65 ng/dl in group 1 and from 115 +/- 37 to 178 +/- 55 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.054 group 1 vs. group 2). Total testosterone levels increased from 343 +/- 61 to 572 +/- 139 ng/dl in group 1 and from 397 +/- 106 to 520 +/- 91 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.012 group 1 vs. group 2). Serum estradiol levels decreased from 26 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 6 pg/ml in group 1 and from 27 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 5 pg/ml in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Serum LH levels increased from 5.1 +/- 4.8 to 7.9 +/- 6.5 U/liter and from 4.1 +/- 1.6 to 7.2 +/- 2.8 U/liter in groups 1 and 2, respectively (P = 0.007 group 1 vs. placebo, P = 0.003 group 2 vs. placebo, and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2).


Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels. - PubMed - NCBI

iv seen the study and few others. context is also alot to consider for sure. if i can show study that shows letro shrunk gyno, it still doesnt mean its the best option off cycle ( a serm like ralox is in this case, or full removal IMO) i know we are not talking gyno, just trying to make point about studies.
I understand this is trt talk, but I feel that its not the way to go about it if with lowT. are you going to indefinitely take an AI slowly lowering estro and causing other issues to up test a little? atleast with a full out SERM run of clomid for a few months you may push production to point after the run you may stay functioning at a more decent level, and if not then its hrt for life if wanting to have better levels anyway.

I just dont see the point of running ai with normal estro levels to gain a little test boost. even if allowing hpta to be slightly manipulated, would you argue that an AI would have a better effect at stimulating the hpta or a run of a SERM?
for me i feel a serm is superior and without the worry of low estro.

not saying it has zero effect (though i feel minimal), i just dont see it as an optimal choice vs. a SERM run, before accepting hrt for life.

 

[JimiThing]

Depends on your pituitary too.
I was on .25 mg eod of adex monotherapy for many months and I crashed my E2...and my LH/FSH never rose and it was same as baseline.
Headaches, sore joints, dry skin, tiredness ....
Be sure to start from lowest dose possible then dial it in...
Looking back I would start at 0.125 mg eod-e3d... Then check that estro is not too low.

and the bold above is my biggest issue with using an ai over a serm for hrt purposes. While the body will strive to achieve homeostasis if it was in a position or capable of properly achieving that in all likelihood you wouldn't need hrt in the first place! I think the risk of crashing e2 is high and would recommend serm therapy over ai therapy for hrt purposes almost every time.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

and the bold above is my biggest issue with using an ai over a serm for hrt purposes. While the body will strive to achieve homeostasis if it was in a position or capable of properly achieving that in all likelihood you wouldn't need hrt in the first place! I think the risk of crashing e2 is high and would recommend serm therapy over ai therapy for hrt purposes almost every time.

Fair enough. I feel like it's a good option for those that don't handle Clomid/SERMs well though.

 

[JimiThing]

Fair enough. I feel like it's a good option for those that don't handle Clomid/SERMs well though.

I wasnt aware you even commented on it man! LOL
If serms cause you an issue I suppose its worth a shot. IMO just about anything is worth trying if you can avoid or delay TRT effectively. I would go the serm route first however just due to the potential for added complications when using the ai to accomplish this.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

I wasnt aware you even commented on it man! LOL
If serms cause you an issue I suppose its worth a shot. IMO just about anything is worth trying if you can avoid or delay TRT effectively. I would go the serm route first however just due to the potential for added complications when using the ai to accomplish this.

Hhah, I was just following the conversation in my head and didn't end up butting in til now lol.
Yeah I agree completely.

 

[Alpin]

iv seen the study and few others. context is also alot to consider for sure. if i can show study that shows letro shrunk gyno, it still doesnt mean its the best option off cycle ( a serm like ralox is in this case, or full removal IMO) i know we are not talking gyno, just trying to make point about studies.
I understand this is trt talk, but I feel that its not the way to go about it if with lowT. are you going to indefinitely take an AI slowly lowering estro and causing other issues to up test a little? atleast with a full out SERM run of clomid for a few months you may push production to point after the run you may stay functioning at a more decent level, and if not then its hrt for life if wanting to have better levels anyway.

I just dont see the point of running ai with normal estro levels to gain a little test boost. even if allowing hpta to be slightly manipulated, would you argue that an AI would have a better effect at stimulating the hpta or a run of a SERM?
for me i feel a serm is superior and without the worry of low estro.

not saying it has zero effect (though i feel minimal), i just dont see it as an optimal choice vs. a SERM run, before accepting hrt for life.

Which SERM did u like more ...clomid or nolva?